BF2S Forums Its Never Our Fault Mentallity

Yay! I was waiting for another of your threads, it was getting boring around here...

FatherTed wrote:

I saw "Mr BUSH", and lost the effort to give a meaningful response.

lol

First the article does state "albeit partly," and I do believe that this is true. There are a lot of factors to rising food prices, and the development of India and China is one of them. I'm not saying that it's entirely their fault since the race for biofuels is probably the most significant factor, but they are part of the reason, not that it's entirely a bad thing.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that he's entirely "blaming" them, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say that Bush meant that they are part of reason why food prices are increasing unless proven otherwise.

It is so hard to want to repond to an OP that is summarized by a copy and paste from the comments section of the article.  Rammunition, at least summarize it yourself.

On Topic: 

I agree that there are many reasons for the increase in food prices.  Increased demand abroad though has not seen the marked increase (at least not over a short period of time) that matches the rise in prices.  Ethanol production and to a lesser extent, in my opinion, less than ideal yields in other countries, have had a very marked increase that closely matches the increase in food prices.  All of these factors work together to increase food prices.

Here are the planting percentages for the different regions of Illinois:

                   North                               Cental                          South
Year    Corn    Beans    Wheat    Corn    Beans    Wheat    Corn    Beans    Wheat
1996     55        35           1         48         44          1         40         50         10
1997     55        36           1         49         46          1         41         49         12
1998     54        38           1         49         46          1         36         51         13
1999     53        39           1         49         47          1         41         50         10
2000     53        40           1         49         47          1         42         49          9
2001     52        41           1         49         48          1         42         51          7
2002     54        39           1         50         46          1         40         52          7
2003     54        38           1         50         45          1         38         51         10
2004     58        35           2         52         44          1         42         51         10
2005     61        33           1         54         42          1         44         49          7

Here is data on Iowa corn production for 2006 and 2007:

"In 2006, Iowa corn farmers grew almost 2.1 billion bushels of corn on 12.4 million acres of land. In 2007 they harvested more than 2.5 billion bushels on a record breaking 13.9 million acres. "

Scource:  http://www.iowacorn.org/cornuse/cornuse_20.html

My questions:  Is it worth it trying to produce all this ethanol?  What is the best scource of ethanol?  Is adding more farm land, meaning less in various other programs, worth it to the environment?

Lol i love watching him troll.

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

What does that have anything to do with the title of the thread?

The article is about the rise in food prices and the fact that Bush is blaiming the increased price for food on the increased demand abroad more that the shift of food production to produce bio fuels.  Did you read the article?

cowami wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

David.P wrote:

Lol i love watching him troll.

Huh?

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=99710
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=99367
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=99249
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=98872
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=98869

all of huis threads and posts can be best summarized by this:

rammunition wrote:

amerika sux

I thought he was refering to me.

LividBovine wrote:

It is so hard to want to repond to an OP that is summarized by a copy and paste from the comments section of the article.  Rammunition, at least summarize it yourself.

On Topic: 

I agree that there are many reasons for the increase in food prices.  Increased demand abroad though has not seen the marked increase (at least not over a short period of time) that matches the rise in prices.  Ethanol production and to a lesser extent, in my opinion, less than ideal yields in other countries, have had a very marked increase that closely matches the increase in food prices.  All of these factors work together to increase food prices.

Here are the planting percentages for the different regions of Illinois:

                   North                               Cental                          South
Year    Corn    Beans    Wheat    Corn    Beans    Wheat    Corn    Beans    Wheat
1996     55        35           1         48         44          1         40         50         10
1997     55        36           1         49         46          1         41         49         12
1998     54        38           1         49         46          1         36         51         13
1999     53        39           1         49         47          1         41         50         10
2000     53        40           1         49         47          1         42         49          9
2001     52        41           1         49         48          1         42         51          7
2002     54        39           1         50         46          1         40         52          7
2003     54        38           1         50         45          1         38         51         10
2004     58        35           2         52         44          1         42         51         10
2005     61        33           1         54         42          1         44         49          7

Here is data on Iowa corn production for 2006 and 2007:

"In 2006, Iowa corn farmers grew almost 2.1 billion bushels of corn on 12.4 million acres of land. In 2007 they harvested more than 2.5 billion bushels on a record breaking 13.9 million acres. "

Scource:  http://www.iowacorn.org/cornuse/cornuse_20.html

My questions:  Is it worth it trying to produce all this ethanol?  What is the best scource of ethanol?  Is adding more farm land, meaning less in various other programs, worth it to the environment?

Burning food is bad. Using corn to make ethenol is burning food. Therefore using ethenol is bad.

nobody likes to lose

LividBovine wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

What does that have anything to do with the title of the thread?

The article is about the rise in food prices and the fact that Bush is blaiming the increased price for food on the increased demand abroad more that the shift of food production to produce bio fuels.  Did you read the article?

Yes, I did, and it still doesn't seem like an appropriate title.

Smithereener wrote:

First the article does state "albeit partly," and I do believe that this is true. There are a lot of factors to rising food prices, and the development of India and China is one of them. I'm not saying that it's entirely their fault since the race for biofuels is probably the most significant factor, but they are part of the reason, not that it's entirely a bad thing.

I think it's a bit unfair to say that he's entirely "blaming" them, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say that Bush meant that they are part of reason why food prices are increasing unless proven otherwise.

Indeed


Clearly the article title is a bit biased, or maybe trying for a bit of sensationalist reaction

Kinda like certain posters at internet forums.

Im_Dooomed wrote:

Burning ethanol is more polluting then burning petrol.

No.

Currently there is apx. a 12 percent reduction in greenhouse emmisions when the ethanol is produced from corn.  Not impressive, but there is a gain.  Is it worth it though?  The higher food costs and land that has been placed into conservation programs being put back into crop production don't seem worth it for a 13 percent gain.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoe … nough.html


Saab’s bio-ethanol 9-5 is an example of a car that was designed to burn ethanol first and gasoline second.  It has a better power output and lower emmisions than the same motor built for gasoline.  Not sure what the net gain is, but it seems to make that 13 percent go a little farther.
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/060103A.html

The fact is ethanol is a higher octane, cleaner burning, higher BTU fuel that is not being used appropriately. 

Oh, and I don't think corn is the right way to produce it.

Edit:  Added links for your viewing pleasure.  And changed the percent to match actual data.

Last edited by LividBovine (2008-05-04 21:54:17)