Wreckognize
Member
+294|6909
http://www.military.com/features/0,1524 … SRC=dod.nl

RAFENWOHR, Germany -- Legislation that would restrict the sale of certain men's magazines on U.S. military bases around the world would be bad for morale, according to soldiers at Grafenw�hr.

U.S. Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., has introduced legislation that would close a loophole in the current law that allows the sale of some sexually explicit material on military bases by lowering the threshold required to deem material "sexually explicit."

A Department of Defense committee that reviews materials sold on bases ruled last year that magazines such as Playboy and Penthouse are not pornographic. But Broun's Military Honor and Decency Act includes language that could make those magazines eligible for the ban.

The prospect of missing out on men's magazines was not welcomed by soldiers at Grafenw�hr.

"We all read 'em," said Pfc. Paul Rubio, 31, of Bakersfield, Calif. "There are times we just read 'em for the technological parts like the new gadgets that come out. They have good stories sometimes too."

Sgt. Simon Brown, 34, of Daytona Beach, Fla., said men's magazines build morale. "It's not all about the pictures, although 80 percent of it is," he said.

Pfc. Greg Smith, 21, of Northboro, Mass., a regular Playboy reader, said soldiers should be allowed to buy nudie magazines at the exchange.

"Playboy is good entertainment while you are on the can. They have jokes and good stories," he said.

Broun, a Marine veteran, told Newsweek recently that the magazines sold in military exchanges are partly responsible for a rise in sexual assaults in the military and other problems.

"Allowing the sale of pornography on military bases has harmed military men and women by: escalating the number of violent, sexual crimes; feeding a base addiction; eroding the family as the primary building block of society; and denigrating the moral standing of our troops both here and abroad," Broun says on his Web site.

The legislation would require the DOD to annually review material that is not currently deemed sexually explicit to determine if it should be prohibited, according to the Web site.

Some soldiers say magazines that could be banned are particularly important downrange.

Brown deployed to Afghanistan in 2002 and 2005 and is preparing to go to Iraq with the 12th Combat Aviation Brigade this summer. When he was in Afghanistan he was one of the first to pick up a new copy of Maxim or FHM when it came out, he said.

"It would suck if they ban it," he said. "It's bad enough we are down there to begin with. Taking that away would be like a knife in the chest. I'm not saying I'm depending on Maxim to keep me alive over there, but it helps."

Publications such as Maxim and FHM are not named by Broun, but lowering the threshold of the sexually explicit definition might mean such magazines would be targeted for a ban.

Some troops in the Pacific region said the proposed legislation would impinge upon their personal freedoms.

"They're making it a point of undermining soldiers to almost make them feel like we're back in elementary school," Pfc. Nickolas Sears said Friday at Camp Red Cloud, South Korea. "We're all adults here, and if it's something we want to do, we should feel free to choose as we please."

Other than on base, there's no place in South Korea to buy magazines like Playboy, he said.

"I believe it's a breach of freedom of speech," said Senior Airman Garrett Deese, 25, of Elk Grove, Calif., who just completed a tour with the 8th Aircraft Maintenance Squadron at Kunsan Air Base, South Korea.

He said he wonders whether such a ban would lead to barring other types of magazines lawmakers chose to challenge. He also questioned whether Broun's link between magazines and sexual assaults within the military would stand close scrutiny.

At Yokota Air Base, Japan, military spouse Roberta Woolley said she understands the need for balance between rules and individual rights, but said the military has tougher standards than the rest of American society.

"It's a good idea," she said of the proposed ban. "I think there's better literature out there.... In the military, we sell cigarettes and alcohol legally. But it's also questionable whether they promote a healthy lifestyle.

"I've seen all these magazines, and they don't make men or women intelligent or beautiful. And even though they're hidden, there is still exposure to children as well. It's the parents' responsibility to give ideas about body awareness to their children. I don't think Mr. Hefner presents a positive image of men or women in his magazine."

A female soldier at Grafenw�hr -- Sgt. Pou McCall, 23, of Riverside, Calif. -- said men's magazines don't bother her a lot, but she'd support a ban.

"What if it was their (soldiers') sisters (in the magazines)? It doesn't take a magazine for sexual harassment to happen but it increases it," she said.

Army and Air Force Exchange service public relations manager Judd Anstey said AAFES sold $231,000 worth of Penthouse, Playboy and Playgirl magazines in Europe last year.

"Sales of these three titles account for 2.7 percent of total European magazine sales ($8.5 million) at AAFES facilities," he said.

The sales accounted for 0.5 percent of worldwide AAFES magazine sales of $46.4 million, he said.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6818|The Gem Saloon
/facepalm @ copy/pasted posts.





thats kind of shitty.
they sign up, and now they cant even look at what they want....its not child porn or anything like that, and if they arent reading them at inappropriate times, there should be no issues.
but hey, its the military, they do what they want.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California
Sweet.  Bout time they shape up the military.  That's a start.  Porn makes rapists.
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6946|...

no porn will make them fight harder
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6966|Outer Space
Well, my opinion(misconception) is this: They can either wank safely on base, or go buy love on the local market.

But I guess the sale of condoms will surge then, and not soon after we can expect an attempt to ban sale of condoms on bases, and calls for abstinence in the military...

/misconception
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California

jsnipy wrote:

no porn will make them fight harder
it makes something harder, i doubt fighting.
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7146|Eastern PA
Broun, a Marine veteran, told Newsweek recently that the magazines sold in military exchanges are partly responsible for a rise in sexual assaults in the military and other problems.
I think it has more to do with relaxing the bans on those with criminal histories.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

This is a worse situation than Walter Reed AMC.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

IRONCHEF wrote:

Sweet.  Bout time they shape up the military.  That's a start.  Porn makes rapists.
I hope you're joking.  This bill does nothing but further the nanny state and the ridiculous busybodying of the Religious Right.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

Masques wrote:

Broun, a Marine veteran, told Newsweek recently that the magazines sold in military exchanges are partly responsible for a rise in sexual assaults in the military and other problems.
I think it has more to do with relaxing the bans on those with criminal histories.
Fuck yeah, but that's too logical of a response for politicians and the media to acknowledge.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California

Turquoise wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Sweet.  Bout time they shape up the military.  That's a start.  Porn makes rapists.
I hope you're joking.  This bill does nothing but further the nanny state and the ridiculous busybodying of the Religious Right.
I actually don't see porn as something positive but rather the opposite.  I would love their behavior to reflect the deep reverence and respect they command of their country.  I realize it may be on the unconstitutional side (banning porn or whatever is considered free press), but as it is, banning porn from the ranks is good.  Training them to be morally clean would be better (and it would make morally clean individuals less afraid to join the military i think). 

In short, I doubt it'll stop porn proliferation.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

IRONCHEF wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Sweet.  Bout time they shape up the military.  That's a start.  Porn makes rapists.
I hope you're joking.  This bill does nothing but further the nanny state and the ridiculous busybodying of the Religious Right.
I actually don't see porn as something positive but rather the opposite.  I would love their behavior to reflect the deep reverence and respect they command of their country.  I realize it may be on the unconstitutional side (banning porn or whatever is considered free press), but as it is, banning porn from the ranks is good.  Training them to be morally clean would be better (and it would make morally clean individuals less afraid to join the military i think). 

In short, I doubt it'll stop porn proliferation.
Well, at least we agree on the last part.

To me, associating porn with moral flaws is like associating guns with murder.  It's not guns themselves that are bad, it's how people use them.  Porn is the same way.  Some people use porn as a stress reliever.  The ones who are encouraged to do sex crimes by it are the kind of people who would do them anyway.

In short, don't blame porn, blame individuals with mental instability.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California

Turquoise wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I hope you're joking.  This bill does nothing but further the nanny state and the ridiculous busybodying of the Religious Right.
I actually don't see porn as something positive but rather the opposite.  I would love their behavior to reflect the deep reverence and respect they command of their country.  I realize it may be on the unconstitutional side (banning porn or whatever is considered free press), but as it is, banning porn from the ranks is good.  Training them to be morally clean would be better (and it would make morally clean individuals less afraid to join the military i think). 

In short, I doubt it'll stop porn proliferation.
Well, at least we agree on the last part.

To me, associating porn with moral flaws is like associating guns with murder.  It's not guns themselves that are bad, it's how people use them.  Porn is the same way.  Some people use porn as a stress reliever.  The ones who are encouraged to do sex crimes by it are the kind of people who would do them anyway.

In short, don't blame porn, blame individuals with mental instability.
Well, I'm involved with a couple groups that address porn addiction (yes, hormonal addictions are real, and much stronger than chemical addictions), and I'm aware of plenty of literature, including the testimony of Ted Bundy before his execution which explains nicely how his simple porn addiction escalated to bigger and better things including murder, rape, etc.

And you're right, porn, like guns, do not "cause" the crimes.  They do facilitate them..and I think it's safe to say that porn does a little more in how it desensitizes the man and does indirectly devalue your own loved ones.  THere's many divorce stories that start with porn and the spouse being undesireable.  THis is undeniable evidence of it's destruction.

Families and fidelity FTW baby.  PR0N FTL.


**edit** From the first article that came up in my google search:

In the President's Report on Pornography (1988), Attorney General Edwin Meese concluded that there is a causal relationship between hard core pornography and serial homicide. The personal testimonies of the convicted murderers Gary Bishop and Ted Bundy have also confirmed this association.

Utah State Prison inmate Gary Bishop, convicted of five known deaths of young boys, ages 5-13, gave this testimony: "I am a homosexual pedophile convicted of murder. Pornography was a determining factor in my downfall ... For me, pornography was like lighting a fuse on a stick of dynamite. I became stimulated and had to gratify my urges or explode."

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-05-09 12:07:38)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

IRONCHEF wrote:

Well, I'm involved with a couple groups that address porn addiction (yes, hormonal addictions are real, and much stronger than chemical addictions), and I'm aware of plenty of literature, including the testimony of Ted Bundy before his execution which explains nicely how his simple porn addiction escalated to bigger and better things including murder, rape, etc.

And you're right, porn, like guns, do not "cause" the crimes.  They do facilitate them..and I think it's safe to say that porn does a little more in how it desensitizes the man and does indirectly devalue your own loved ones.  THere's many divorce stories that start with porn and the spouse being undesireable.  THis is undeniable evidence of it's destruction.

Families and fidelity FTW baby.  PR0N FTL.
I'd rather not punish the rest of society (or the rest of the military) because of a few losers who can't handle porn.  If they're that pathetic, they shouldn't be in the military in the first place.

The same thing goes with people who end marriages over porn.  These people obviously have some serious issues and should be either medicated or maybe even committed.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6797|Kyiv, Ukraine

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

Well, my opinion(misconception) is this: They can either wank safely on base, or go buy love on the local market.

But I guess the sale of condoms will surge then, and not soon after we can expect an attempt to ban sale of condoms on bases, and calls for abstinence in the military...

/misconception
Wise words from my old CSM during a safety brief before his retirement - "Remember kids, the best form of birth control is to never give your real name."
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California

Turquoise wrote:

I'd rather not punish the rest of society (or the rest of the military) because of a few losers who can't handle porn.  If they're that pathetic, they shouldn't be in the military in the first place.

The same thing goes with people who end marriages over porn.  These people obviously have some serious issues and should be either medicated or maybe even committed.
I would say it's a little different than that.  I'm saying PORN effects EVERYONE with the desensitization, the denegration of virtue and modesty, etc, and overall will contribute towards the tendencies that lead to things.  It's even said porn leads to homosexuality. 

Also, Porn, as referenced in my posts, is meant to include the masturbation that accompanies it pretty much 99% of the time...hence the hormonal addiction.

Yes, people all have different limits to such an influence, but I certainly don't agree that there are porn users who go unaffected completely...if you're implying that.  And no, not every porn user turns to violence, rape, murder.  If it were so, porn would be outlawed.

Nasty stuff.  Great to look at, very stimulating, but bad, bad stuff.  I think it's worse to me than cigarettes.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7052|IRELAND

If they are taking the porn then they should supply free hookers. Man needs to jizz regardless.
jord
Member
+2,382|7102|The North, beyond the wall.

JahManRed wrote:

If they are taking the porn then they should supply free hookers. Man needs to jizz regardless.
Dreams of the wet variety.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6966|Outer Space

IRONCHEF wrote:

It's even said porn leads to homosexuality.
Lol, any credibility you had went out the window with that.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7114|Tampa Bay Florida

IRONCHEF wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Sweet.  Bout time they shape up the military.  That's a start.  Porn makes rapists.
I hope you're joking.  This bill does nothing but further the nanny state and the ridiculous busybodying of the Religious Right.
I actually don't see porn as something positive but rather the opposite.  I would love their behavior to reflect the deep reverence and respect they command of their country.  I realize it may be on the unconstitutional side (banning porn or whatever is considered free press), but as it is, banning porn from the ranks is good.  Training them to be morally clean would be better (and it would make morally clean individuals less afraid to join the military i think). 

In short, I doubt it'll stop porn proliferation.
But who's to define whats "morally clean"?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

IRONCHEF wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'd rather not punish the rest of society (or the rest of the military) because of a few losers who can't handle porn.  If they're that pathetic, they shouldn't be in the military in the first place.

The same thing goes with people who end marriages over porn.  These people obviously have some serious issues and should be either medicated or maybe even committed.
I would say it's a little different than that.  I'm saying PORN effects EVERYONE with the desensitization, the denegration of virtue and modesty, etc, and overall will contribute towards the tendencies that lead to things.  It's even said porn leads to homosexuality.
I'd like to see the empirical evidence for that, because that sounds like the same kind of logic people use against things like marijuana.  In other words, I don't buy it.

IRONCHEF wrote:

Also, Porn, as referenced in my posts, is meant to include the masturbation that accompanies it pretty much 99% of the time...hence the hormonal addiction.
Well, you did mention "desensitization."  I guess if you jerk off too much, then yeah...  lol  j/k

IRONCHEF wrote:

Yes, people all have different limits to such an influence, but I certainly don't agree that there are porn users who go unaffected completely...if you're implying that.  And no, not every porn user turns to violence, rape, murder.  If it were so, porn would be outlawed.

Nasty stuff.  Great to look at, very stimulating, but bad, bad stuff.  I think it's worse to me than cigarettes.
Explain to me how the average porn user is affected then.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6829|North Carolina

JahManRed wrote:

If they are taking the porn then they should supply free hookers. Man needs to jizz regardless.
lol...  They actually did prove recently that masturbation (when done in moderation) helps to prevent prostate cancer.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-09 12:19:43)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

If they are taking the porn then they should supply free hookers. Man needs to jizz regardless.
lol...  They actually did prove recently that masturbation (when done in moderation) helps to prevent prostate cancer.
I have been apart of that study for 20 years.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6915|Northern California
As for empirical evidence, i'm not up to googling for the next ten minutes, but I'm sure there's some evidence in support group sites.  I have seen the damages porn has caused in the life of plenty so I have all the evidence I'll ever need to know for sure it effects people.  THe Ted Bundy testimony is very compelling if you haven't read it before.


Average porn effects people:  Well, let's take your average college kid in a dorm.  He spends lots of time in the bathroom doin' his thing.  This goes on for months, years, etc. as is often the case with something so addictive.  Is it reasonable to believe he will imagine those bathroom scenarios whenhe goes out on a date?  Is it reasonable to suggest that he may not find his girlfriend as visually pleasing as his full time magazines?   

WHen someone looks at porn, acts on it, repeats it...this shows an obvious adhesiveness or growing addiction.  It's that simple.  In married life, this effects your spouse, your kids (especially daughters), and it can reflect in how you look on other woman.  To take from the movie Shallow Hal, porn will cause you to look upon women with your head in the gutter rather than where it belongs.  I can't believe I"m arguing this, but I guess we don't all accept such things..at least until we realize it's happening to us.  lol

ANyway, if you can't see how it effects all who are ensnared by it, then I probably can't explain it to you.  And since I'm probably the only advocate against porn on this site...I'll go ahead and leave this subject as I'm obviously outnumbered.  lol

Turquoise wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

If they are taking the porn then they should supply free hookers. Man needs to jizz regardless.
lol...  They actually did prove recently that masturbation (when done in moderation) helps to prevent prostate cancer.
This is true!  So at least you're doing some things positive with it!  WHen I was in high school, I learned that sperm requires a good 36 hours to become effective (at fertilizing an egg), so before I went out with a girl (yes, I was quite the mack daddy back then), I made sure to empty my stores within the 48 hours prior so that there'd be much less chance of knockin' her up!

Oh the bad old days!  lol

Next month, i get to smell my seminal vescicles (whatever the cords are the connect the nads with the launcher) fry as I get a vasectomy...we're done with babies.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-05-09 12:31:20)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

IRONCHEF wrote:

Next month, i get to smell my seminal vescicles (whatever the cords are the connect the nads with the launcher) fry as I get a vasectomy...we're done with babies.
Thx for helping me conclude my lunch.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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