Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355736,00.html

" Despite being surrounded by petroleum-rich neighbors, Egypt is suffering the effects of record-high oil prices that have touched off deadly riots over the simplest of commodities: bread.

Since the beginning of April, at least 10 people have been stabbed to death while waiting in Cairo bread lines — others have died from exhaustion.

The crisis comes as the U.N.’s World Food Program appeals to member nations to contribute $750 million for aid to affected countries.

But as FOX News reported last week, internal documents from the WFP show a failure by OPEC nations to help out their Arab neighbor. Saudi Arabia, for instance, has committed to give zero dollars for 2008, while the United Arab Emirates has pledged just $50,000 — an amount several times less than impoverished nations like Bangladesh.

The United States leads all donors at more than a $1 billion.

Egypt, the world's largest importer of wheat, heavily subsidizes the sale of flour. Government flour sells for about $3 per 100 pounds. On the black market, however, that same bag can fetch $45.

Unlike other Arab nations awash in petrodollars, almost half of Egypt’s population gets by on less than $2 a day — and for an estimated 30 million people, bread means everything.

For now, the Army has been called out — to bake and distribute the bread. "


This in the most dedicated, strict, and rich Islamic part of the world.  What say you oh great defenders of Islam who claim the religion isn't just mental disorder.  Remind me again what the redeeming qualities of Islam are again?
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7146|Eastern PA
Why would you assume that the foreign policy or foreign aid calculus of a Muslim state would be any different than other states?

I fail to see how this is supposed to be a knock against Muslims in general rather than the elite (and often autocratic) regimes of states that happen to be mostly Muslim. Saudi Arabia is simply the Middle East equivalent of your standard banana republic. A state with an economy built on one commodity (oil) that spends a disproportionate amount of its revenue on the internal security apparatus.

No different than Burma (or the shitty little regimes extant in South and Central America during the 1970-80s), really, except they're on "our" team.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
^^^^ So am I to assume that only nonMuslims in these countries control the wealth or what is your point?
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7146|Eastern PA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

^^^^ So am I to assume that only nonMuslims in these countries control the wealth or what is your point?
Just that if the leadership doesn't care for its own people, why expect them to contribute out of any concerns other than those related to security.

How is that related to Muslims in particular when the same dynamic has been seen in states from South America to Europe to Africa to Asia. Dictatorial regimes tend not to care about much other than the ruling class.

Besides, the whole question is premised on the assumption that when these autocratic leaders speak of Muslim solidarity they actually believe what they're saying, rather than as a way to deflect from their own failings.

Superimpose the specter of a communist takeover over all the Pan-Arabism and transplant the leadership to majority Christian Argentina or Guatemala and you essentially have the typical dictatorship of the 1970s. Given that, are you willing to say that Christians don't care for each other? Or that those dictators are outstanding examples of humanity's excesses?

Same logic, same conclusion.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
These countries base their laws, government, and societies on Islam.  I am not talking about just one country, all the Islamic countries.  What is their record for killing neighbors vs helping neighbors?  I do assume there is a Muslim Majority in all the Islamic countries in the Middle East, so why would the governments and the countries actions not reflect on Islam?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6952|Global Command

Lotta_Drool wrote:

These countries base their laws, government, and societies on Islam.  I am not talking about just one country, all the Islamic countries.  What is their record for killing neighbors vs helping neighbors?  I do assume there is a Muslim Majority in all the Islamic countries in the Middle East, so why would the governments and the countries actions not reflect on Islam?
WIN.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7181|Argentina
The government of the US = other Religion?  Why do you compare Islam to a country?  Yes, most Middle East countries don't give a fuck for their neighbors, but that doesn't mean it's Islam's fault, it's just a lack of education.
dark110
Member
+37|7045|Chicagoland
america dosent care about muslims, we care about oil.

phesss
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7146|Eastern PA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

These countries base their laws, government, and societies on Islam.  I am not talking about just one country, all the Islamic countries.  What is their record for killing neighbors vs helping neighbors?  I do assume there is a Muslim Majority in all the Islamic countries in the Middle East, so why would the governments and the countries actions not reflect on Islam?
Most Burmese are Buddhists. Is that state a shining example of Zen-like serenity? How about Japan in the early-20th century? Vietnam? Cambodia? China?

You're attributing the actions of national governments, anti-democratic and not subject to the population, to their religion even though the leaders ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAWS OF THESE COUNTRIES.

In these cases, the leadership has no incentive to follow sharia law, so they don't. They vacation in Paris and London and New York, get drunk, buy million dollar estates elsewhere and live the high-life. Meanwhile they use religion to control their populations.

Are they Muslim? Nominally I'd suppose, but if you make the rules and are not subject to them...why follow them?

I was baptized Catholic and can count the number of times I've been to mass on one hand. I don't follow the doctrine, am I Catholic?

I suspect that private aid is flowing to these countries, but it's no match for government aid.

A more fair statement would be "America cares more about Muslims than their governments do", it'd still be mostly false.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6838|Vienna

American Government cares more about people in Egypt than Saudi government.
ooooor
Government of Christian America cares more about Muslims in Egypt than Government of Muslim Saudi Arabia.
ooooor
government in predominately Chiristian country called USA cares more about a predominately Muslim country called Egypt than a predominately Muslim country called Saudi Arabia.

Pick one. If the religion of people is so important to you that it requires labelling, than label all countries you mention.

I absolutely hate the fact that almost every one (on interent, in RL, in media etc) always state that a person or group is Muslim when mentioning them. Its always: Muslim Film Director, Muslim Musician, Muslim Writer, Muslim Country, Muslim paedophile, Muslim robber etc.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
Muslims couldn't give a shit about Indonesia when the 2004 Tsunami stroke either
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

The Donald Trumps of Dubai couldn't really give a rats shit about their persecuted brethren. Lebanon being the only real exception. (you see how they are repaid)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
I'm not one to usually defend Islam, but I think this is a better reflection of Islamic governments than of Islam itself.  It's not that Muslims tend to be more stingy, it's just that theocratic governments do.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

Cultural it would seem. Imagine a world in which we all abided by the Jeffersonian idea:

"The Jeffersonian idea has ever been that there shall be no king; that the sovereign ruler should be placed on the same level and be judged by the same principles as the humblest citizen; that the lords of the manors are entitled to no more privileges than the poorest peasant; that these rights are inalienable, and that any government which disregards them must of necessity be tyrannical."
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Cultural it would seem. Imagine a world in which we all abided by the Jeffersonian idea:

"The Jeffersonian idea has ever been that there shall be no king; that the sovereign ruler should be placed on the same level and be judged by the same principles as the humblest citizen; that the lords of the manors are entitled to no more privileges than the poorest peasant; that these rights are inalienable, and that any government which disregards them must of necessity be tyrannical."
I would love that, but the only way that would happen is if we had a worldwide socialistic capitalistic economy with either one world government or multiple governments with trustworthy people running them.

In other words, it'll never happen....
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Cultural it would seem. Imagine a world in which we all abided by the Jeffersonian idea:

"The Jeffersonian idea has ever been that there shall be no king; that the sovereign ruler should be placed on the same level and be judged by the same principles as the humblest citizen; that the lords of the manors are entitled to no more privileges than the poorest peasant; that these rights are inalienable, and that any government which disregards them must of necessity be tyrannical."
I would love that, but the only way that would happen is if we had a worldwide socialistic capitalistic economy with either one world government or multiple governments with trustworthy people running them.

In other words, it'll never happen....
There have been pockets of it throughout history. Human nature ensures that it never last though .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7146|Eastern PA

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Cultural it would seem. Imagine a world in which we all abided by the Jeffersonian idea:

"The Jeffersonian idea has ever been that there shall be no king; that the sovereign ruler should be placed on the same level and be judged by the same principles as the humblest citizen; that the lords of the manors are entitled to no more privileges than the poorest peasant; that these rights are inalienable, and that any government which disregards them must of necessity be tyrannical."
I would love that, but the only way that would happen is if we had a worldwide socialistic capitalistic economy with either one world government or multiple governments with trustworthy people running them.

In other words, it'll never happen....
There have been pockets of it throughout history. Human nature ensures that it never last though .
The revolution never fails! Only you can fail the revolution!
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

Lotta_Drool wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355736,00.html

" Despite being surrounded by petroleum-rich neighbors, Egypt is suffering the effects of record-high oil prices that have touched off deadly riots over the simplest of commodities: bread.

Since the beginning of April, at least 10 people have been stabbed to death while waiting in Cairo bread lines — others have died from exhaustion.

The crisis comes as the U.N.’s World Food Program appeals to member nations to contribute $750 million for aid to affected countries.

But as FOX News reported last week, internal documents from the WFP show a failure by OPEC nations to help out their Arab neighbor. Saudi Arabia, for instance, has committed to give zero dollars for 2008, while the United Arab Emirates has pledged just $50,000 — an amount several times less than impoverished nations like Bangladesh.

The United States leads all donors at more than a $1 billion.

Egypt, the world's largest importer of wheat, heavily subsidizes the sale of flour. Government flour sells for about $3 per 100 pounds. On the black market, however, that same bag can fetch $45.

Unlike other Arab nations awash in petrodollars, almost half of Egypt’s population gets by on less than $2 a day — and for an estimated 30 million people, bread means everything.

For now, the Army has been called out — to bake and distribute the bread. "


This in the most dedicated, strict, and rich Islamic part of the world.  What say you oh great defenders of Islam who claim the religion isn't just mental disorder.  Remind me again what the redeeming qualities of Islam are again?
What the fuck has religion got to do with this, pray tell....?
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland

CameronPoe wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355736,00.html

" Despite being surrounded by petroleum-rich neighbors, Egypt is suffering the effects of record-high oil prices that have touched off deadly riots over the simplest of commodities: bread.

Since the beginning of April, at least 10 people have been stabbed to death while waiting in Cairo bread lines — others have died from exhaustion.

The crisis comes as the U.N.’s World Food Program appeals to member nations to contribute $750 million for aid to affected countries.

But as FOX News reported last week, internal documents from the WFP show a failure by OPEC nations to help out their Arab neighbor. Saudi Arabia, for instance, has committed to give zero dollars for 2008, while the United Arab Emirates has pledged just $50,000 — an amount several times less than impoverished nations like Bangladesh.

The United States leads all donors at more than a $1 billion.

Egypt, the world's largest importer of wheat, heavily subsidizes the sale of flour. Government flour sells for about $3 per 100 pounds. On the black market, however, that same bag can fetch $45.

Unlike other Arab nations awash in petrodollars, almost half of Egypt’s population gets by on less than $2 a day — and for an estimated 30 million people, bread means everything.

For now, the Army has been called out — to bake and distribute the bread. "


This in the most dedicated, strict, and rich Islamic part of the world.  What say you oh great defenders of Islam who claim the religion isn't just mental disorder.  Remind me again what the redeeming qualities of Islam are again?
What the fuck has religion got to do with this, pray tell....?
Egypt is surrounded by countries that are 90% + Muslim, many of which are rich from oil, yet it seems that the US is more willing to help the citizens of that country than the Islamic countries that neighbor it.

I hope that clears it up for you Cameron because I know how hard reading can be on you sometimes.
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6993|Portland, OR, USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

touched off deadly riots over the simplest of commodities: bread.
Foreshadowing tbh.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7098|Canberra, AUS

Lotta_Drool wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355736,00.html

" Despite being surrounded by petroleum-rich neighbors, Egypt is suffering the effects of record-high oil prices that have touched off deadly riots over the simplest of commodities: bread.

Since the beginning of April, at least 10 people have been stabbed to death while waiting in Cairo bread lines — others have died from exhaustion.

The crisis comes as the U.N.’s World Food Program appeals to member nations to contribute $750 million for aid to affected countries.

But as FOX News reported last week, internal documents from the WFP show a failure by OPEC nations to help out their Arab neighbor. Saudi Arabia, for instance, has committed to give zero dollars for 2008, while the United Arab Emirates has pledged just $50,000 — an amount several times less than impoverished nations like Bangladesh.

The United States leads all donors at more than a $1 billion.

Egypt, the world's largest importer of wheat, heavily subsidizes the sale of flour. Government flour sells for about $3 per 100 pounds. On the black market, however, that same bag can fetch $45.

Unlike other Arab nations awash in petrodollars, almost half of Egypt’s population gets by on less than $2 a day — and for an estimated 30 million people, bread means everything.

For now, the Army has been called out — to bake and distribute the bread. "


This in the most dedicated, strict, and rich Islamic part of the world.  What say you oh great defenders of Islam who claim the religion isn't just mental disorder.  Remind me again what the redeeming qualities of Islam are again?
What the fuck has religion got to do with this, pray tell....?
Egypt is surrounded by countries that are 90% + Muslim, many of which are rich from oil, yet it seems that the US is more willing to help the citizens of that country than the Islamic countries that neighbor it.

I hope that clears it up for you Cameron because I know how hard reading can be on you sometimes.
You're making links that don't exist. Whether the countries are Islamic or not is irrelevant, and I'm interested in why you find it so important.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6251

Spark wrote:

You're making links that don't exist. Whether the countries are Islamic or not is irrelevant, and I'm interested in why you find it so important.
BVC
Member
+325|7119
+1 Karma to the US
-1 Karma to Saudi Arabia

Out of curiosity, is Israel helping out at all?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6529|eXtreme to the maX
American Government cares more about people in Egypt than Saudi government.
ooooor
Government of Christian America cares more about Muslims in Egypt than Government of Muslim Saudi Arabia.
ooooor
government in predominately Chiristian country called USA cares more about a predominately Muslim country called Egypt than a predominately Muslim country called Saudi Arabia.
Or maybe the US is just buying influence in the region and doesn't give a crap about anyone.
Fuck Israel
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Egypt is surrounded by countries that are 90% + Muslim, many of which are rich from oil, yet it seems that the US is more willing to help the citizens of that country than the Islamic countries that neighbor it.

I hope that clears it up for you Cameron because I know how hard reading can be on you sometimes.
Ah I see. How relevant.

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