Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7024|132 and Bush

https://i27.tinypic.com/25q7x4y.jpg

They moved on Beirut after the government had the temerity to shut down their communications (i.e. spy) network and fire their stooge from overseeing security at the airport. Problem solved: The network has been restored and the stooge is back at work, thanks to a “settlement” brokered by the Arab League in which Hezbollah gets everything it wants and the opposition maybe gets some token rhetoric about disarmament one of these days. No wonder there was celebratory gunfire in Hezbollah-controlled areas after the deal was announced.

What’s the practical effect of all this? As I understand it, there was only one national institution that had earned the trust of Lebanon’s various sects: namely, the army. That’s gone now, shattered by its complicity in Hezbollah’s coup.
[S]ince Hizbullah began its violent takeover of Lebanon last Wednesday, it has done so with the full cooperation of the Lebanese army. When Hizbullah forces raided, set fire to and destroyed Hariri’s Future News newspaper offices and Future TV station, they did so with Lebanese army escort. Suleiman’s forces did not reopen Hariri’s pro-democracy media outlets after they ordered Hizbullah forces to leave the streets of Beirut over the weekend. They did not confront Hizbullah forces in Tripoli or Tyre. And now they are allowing the Druse to be destroyed.

    And of course, the Shi’ite-dominated Lebanese army rendered Hizbullah the victor in its coup when the generals announced they would not carry out the Saniora government’s anti-Hizbullah decisions from last Tuesday.
The hard lesson is that the only protection the Sunnis, Christians, and Druze have from the Shiites in the future will be from their own militias, a fact the Sunnis are already digesting and acting upon. Quote: “Local media already are reporting the formation of Sunni jihadist networks around the northern city of Tripoli, as well as in the eastern Bekaa Valley, where there’s a major Hezbollah stronghold.” Abu Kais says hatred of the Shiites in non-Shiite areas is worse than it’s ever been and declares that the “sectarian genie … is out of the bottle.” Consider it a sneak preview of Iraq if the Shiite elements within the Iraqi army ever succeed in tilting it towards the majority and away from being a national force. Exit question: What do we do now? Start sending weapons to the other sects to keep Hezbollah in check or hang back, dare them to take over the country, and wait for Israel to come up with a brilliant idea?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
I say we let them all kill each other and protect ourselves from Mexico.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7055|949

What a shame that other Mideast powers stood around and let Syria so strongly influence Lebanon.  This is the end result I guess.  Unfortunately for a large chunk of the citizens there, this will probably result in a new Israeli attacks.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6870|Chicago, IL
Israel's gonna have a few good "told you so" moments at the next few UN meetings...
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6834|'Murka

S.Lythberg wrote:

Israel's gonna have a few good "told you so" moments at the next few UN meetings...
No way, cuz it's the joos' fault for takin that land in teh warz.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6952|Global Command

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

What a shame that other Mideast powers stood around and let Syria so strongly influence Lebanon.  This is the end result I guess.  Unfortunately for a large chunk of the citizens there, this will probably result in a new Israeli attacks.
Look on the bright side; you'll still be able to blame Israel.
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6337|Glendale, CA
Oh great...

Now the wackos have another country!
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6250
I find all this very interesting................

What, pray tell, is the difference between these extremists and the Russian ones some of you chose to glorify elsewhere?

More importantly, how is this necessarily a bad thing?  The fact is, Europe is so stable today because they went through a period of bloody conflict, which ended up settling the borders and areas of control.  Until that happens in places like the Middle East and Africa, they will remain unstable.  The sooner, the better.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7098|Canberra, AUS
Hmmm...

I think stability is the thing most needed here, not democracy.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7233|Nårvei

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I find all this very interesting................

What, pray tell, is the difference between these extremists and the Russian ones some of you chose to glorify elsewhere?

More importantly, how is this necessarily a bad thing?  The fact is, Europe is so stable today because they went through a period of bloody conflict, which ended up settling the borders and areas of control.  Until that happens in places like the Middle East and Africa, they will remain unstable.  The sooner, the better.
Without western interference maybe even sooner ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6553|North Tonawanda, NY

Varegg wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I find all this very interesting................

What, pray tell, is the difference between these extremists and the Russian ones some of you chose to glorify elsewhere?

More importantly, how is this necessarily a bad thing?  The fact is, Europe is so stable today because they went through a period of bloody conflict, which ended up settling the borders and areas of control.  Until that happens in places like the Middle East and Africa, they will remain unstable.  The sooner, the better.
Without western interference maybe even sooner ...
And how long did it take Europe to settle its borders? 

Waiting for the middle east and Africa to settle themselves with conflict is not really a speedy option, with or without western influence.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6529|eXtreme to the maX
So whats the problem?
According to the right-wingers here might is right.
Fuck Israel
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6250

Varegg wrote:

And how long did it take Europe to settle its borders?
Well that depends on your timescale I suppose.

SenorToenails wrote:

Waiting for the middle east and Africa to settle themselves with conflict is not really a speedy option, with or without western influence.
I never said it would be speedy, but it's ultimately the only way it'll happen.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7233|Nårvei

SenorToenails wrote:

Varegg wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I find all this very interesting................

What, pray tell, is the difference between these extremists and the Russian ones some of you chose to glorify elsewhere?

More importantly, how is this necessarily a bad thing?  The fact is, Europe is so stable today because they went through a period of bloody conflict, which ended up settling the borders and areas of control.  Until that happens in places like the Middle East and Africa, they will remain unstable.  The sooner, the better.
Without western interference maybe even sooner ...
And how long did it take Europe to settle its borders? 

Waiting for the middle east and Africa to settle themselves with conflict is not really a speedy option, with or without western influence.
The progress of the ME atleast was in a semi state of peace before the 20th century and heavy western influence and occupation destroyed much of that ... western society have many times been a bad contributor in just that area since the last 2000 years ...

Where on the planet infact didn't the white man screw it up pretty good ?
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708
To be fair on Hezbollah they do have a legitimate concern. Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous Israeli invasion. The military forces of Lebanon have been little protection for the populace due to being no match for the Israelis and supposedly fully infiltrated by Israeli spies.

Loss of access to communications networks will likely have been interpreted as a precursor to an attack.

Hezbollah or something similar will remain while the very real threat of more Israeli invasions and bombings remains. One possible solution is for the US to publicly announce that if Israel attacks Lebanon, the US will bomb Israel or withdraw all aid. If the Lebaneese populace have someone capable of protecting them from Israel other than Hezbollah, then they'll likely stop supporting such groups.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7264|Cologne, Germany

SenorToenails wrote:

Varegg wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I find all this very interesting................

What, pray tell, is the difference between these extremists and the Russian ones some of you chose to glorify elsewhere?

More importantly, how is this necessarily a bad thing?  The fact is, Europe is so stable today because they went through a period of bloody conflict, which ended up settling the borders and areas of control.  Until that happens in places like the Middle East and Africa, they will remain unstable.  The sooner, the better.
Without western interference maybe even sooner ...
And how long did it take Europe to settle its borders? 

Waiting for the middle east and Africa to settle themselves with conflict is not really a speedy option, with or without western influence.
well, what can I say, evolution is not a fast process. I think it is time to acknowledge that there is simply no way to artificially "fix" those regions through outside pressure or interference.
They'll have to do it at their own speed, and if it takes another 200 years, then so be it.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6834|'Murka

PureFodder wrote:

Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous destruction of the Israeli invasion state.
Fixed

Hezbollah doesn't give a shit about Lebanon or the Lebanese people.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-05-15 03:56:24)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous destruction of the Israeli invasion state.
Fixed

Hezbollah doesn't give a shit about Lebanon or the Lebanese people.
On February 16, 1985, Sheik Ibrahim al-Amin issued Hezbollah's manifesto. According to this manifesto (titled "An Open Letter: The Hizballah Program"), the three objectives of the organization are:
        * To expel Americans, the French and their allies (sic) definitely from Lebanon, putting an end to any colonialist entity on our land.
        * To submit the phalanges to a just power and bring them all to justice for the crimes they have perpetrated against Muslims and Christians.
        * To permit all the sons of our people to determine their future and to choose in all the liberty the form of government they desire. We call upon all of them to pick the option of Islamic government which alone is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any future tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration onto our country.

Where are you getting your ideas on hezbollah from?
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6250

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous destruction of the Israeli invasion state.
Fixed

Hezbollah doesn't give a shit about Lebanon or the Lebanese people.
Most of them are Lebanese people.
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6284
Hezbollah is only reacting to the actions of a discredited puppet government.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6965|Outer Space

PureFodder wrote:

To be fair on Hezbollah they do have a legitimate concern. Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous Israeli invasion. The military forces of Lebanon have been little protection for the populace due to being no match for the Israelis and supposedly fully infiltrated by Israeli spies.
Gee, I wonder why the first two invasions happened. Kinda naive to perform attacks on Israel from Lebanese territory, and expecting to get away with it. The actions that the Israelis took when they invaded is a different matter altogether, of course.

PureFodder wrote:

Hezbollah or something similar will remain while the very real threat of more Israeli invasions and bombings remains. One possible solution is for the US to publicly announce that if Israel attacks Lebanon, the US will bomb Israel or withdraw all aid. If the Lebaneese populace have someone capable of protecting them from Israel other than Hezbollah, then they'll likely stop supporting such groups.
And a very real threat of Israeli invasion and bombings remains while Hezbollah kidnaps it's soldiers and attacks Israel? What a wonderful magic circle...
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6529|eXtreme to the maX
Hezbollah doesn't give a shit about Lebanon or the Lebanese people.
Hezbollah ARE the Lebanese people, they came into existence because the Lebanese govt was unable to protect its own citizens.
Fuck Israel
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

To be fair on Hezbollah they do have a legitimate concern. Their main purpose is to protect the population of Lebanon from another murderous Israeli invasion. The military forces of Lebanon have been little protection for the populace due to being no match for the Israelis and supposedly fully infiltrated by Israeli spies.
Gee, I wonder why the first two invasions happened. Kinda naive to perform attacks on Israel from Lebanese territory, and expecting to get away with it. The actions that the Israelis took when they invaded is a different matter altogether, of course.

PureFodder wrote:

Hezbollah or something similar will remain while the very real threat of more Israeli invasions and bombings remains. One possible solution is for the US to publicly announce that if Israel attacks Lebanon, the US will bomb Israel or withdraw all aid. If the Lebaneese populace have someone capable of protecting them from Israel other than Hezbollah, then they'll likely stop supporting such groups.
And a very real threat of Israeli invasion and bombings remains while Hezbollah kidnaps it's soldiers and attacks Israel? What a wonderful magic circle...
Hezbollah were formed during an Israeli occupation and their kidnapping of Israeli troops was to force a prisoner exchange for the civillians detained illegaly and without charge for years on end by Israel.

Hezbollah attacks on Israel, whilst clearly crimes, are nothing in comparison to Israeli attacks on southern Lebanon.
Sorcerer0513
Member
+18|6965|Outer Space

PureFodder wrote:

Hezbollah were formed during an Israeli occupation and their kidnapping of Israeli troops was to force a prisoner exchange for the civillians detained illegaly and without charge for years on end by Israel.

Hezbollah attacks on Israel, whilst clearly crimes, are nothing in comparison to Israeli attacks on southern Lebanon.
Again, why did Israel invade in the first place? It didn't have anything to do with certain people ejected from Jordan, did it?

And while what happened during occupation certainly were war crimes, if not commited by the IDF, at least condoned, are you saying they should have let PLO operate from southern Lebanon with impunity?
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708

Sorcerer0513 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Hezbollah were formed during an Israeli occupation and their kidnapping of Israeli troops was to force a prisoner exchange for the civillians detained illegaly and without charge for years on end by Israel.

Hezbollah attacks on Israel, whilst clearly crimes, are nothing in comparison to Israeli attacks on southern Lebanon.
Again, why did Israel invade in the first place? It didn't have anything to do with certain people ejected from Jordan, did it?

And while what happened during occupation certainly were war crimes, if not commited by the IDF, at least condoned, are you saying they should have let PLO operate from southern Lebanon with impunity?
Neither side were allowing anyone to act with impunity. Both killed each other and exchanged blows fairly regularly which is fair enough in a horrible sort of way. The difference is that South Lebanon didn't invade Israel and kill 14,000 people at any point.

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