YANGON, Myanmar - Myanmar's junta kept a French navy ship laden with aid waiting outside its maritime border on Saturday, and showed off neatly laid out state relief camps to diplomats.
The stage-managed tour appeared aimed at countering global criticism of the junta's failure to provide for survivors of Cyclone Nargis, which left at least 134,000 people dead or missing.
The junta flew 60 diplomats and U.N. officials in helicopters to three places in the Irrawaddy delta where camps, aid and survivors were put on display. The diplomats were not swayed.
"It was a show," Shari Villarosa, the top U.S. diplomat in Myanmar, told The Associated Press by telephone after returning to Yangon. "That's what they wanted us to see."
Ready but rejected
Meanwhile, a French navy ship that arrived Saturday off Myanmar's shores loaded with food, medication and fresh water was given the now familiar red light, a response that France's U.N. ambassador, Jean-Maurice Ripert, called "nonsense."
"We have small boats which could allow us to go through the delta to most of the regions where no one has accessed yet," he said a day earlier at U.N. headquarters. "We have small helicopters to drop food, and we have doctors."
The USS Essex, an amphibious assault ship, and its battle group have been waiting to join in the relief effort as well. U.S. Marine flights from their makeshift headquarters in Utapao, Thailand, continued Saturday — bringing the total to 500,000 pounds of aid delivered — but negotiations to allow helicopters to fly directly to the disaster zone were stalled.
'This is inhuman'
Britain's prime minister accused authorities in Myanmar of behaving inhumanely by preventing foreign aid from reaching victims, and said the country's regime cares more about its own survival than the welfare of its people.
"This is inhuman," Gordon Brown told the British Broadcasting Corp. in his strongest criticism yet of Myanmar's authoritarian government.
Brown said a natural disaster "is being made into a man-made catastrophe by the negligence, the neglect and the inhuman treatment of the Burmese people by a regime that is failing to act and to allow the international community to do what it wants to do."
Click for related content
Local heroes step in to help cyclone victims
Slide show: Myanmar's misery
Myanmar's media, which has repeatedly broadcast footage of generals reassuring refugees calmly sitting in clean tents, announced Friday that the death toll from Cyclone Nargis had nearly doubled to 78,000 with about 56,000 missing.
Aid groups: Estimates are low
According to the international Red Cross, the death toll alone is probably about 128,000, with many more deaths possible from disease and starvation unless help gets quickly to some 2.5 million survivors of the disaster.
But seeing that help gets to the victims is not the first priority of Myanmar's rulers. The military, which took power in a 1962 coup, says all aid must be delivered to the government for distribution and has barred foreigners from leaving Yangon, putting up a security cordon around the country's main city.
Myanmar has been slightly more open to aid from its neighbors.
It has accepted Thai and Indian medical teams, which arrived in Yangon on Saturday. The 32-member Thai team was expected to travel to the delta in the coming days, said Dr. Surachet Satitniramai, director of Thailand's National Medical Emergency Services Institute.
The Indian team consists of 50 doctors and paramedics from the Army Medical Corp., said Indian Air Force spokesman Wing Cmdr. Manish Gandhi. He could not immediately say if they will be allowed to go to the delta.
With the monsoon season coming, Myanmar was bracing for a long haul ahead.
Though patches of hot sun broke through Saturday, heavy rains since the cyclone have hampered relief efforts. Despite the overabundance of water in the flooded delta, shortages of water that is fresh enough to drink grew more severe by the day.
Access to regular supplies of safe drinking water and proper sanitation is essential for preventing waterborne diseases like cholera. Malaria and dengue fever outbreaks also will be a major concern in the coming weeks after mosquitoes have time to breed in the stagnant water.
In one town, tired and hungry refugees stood in the baking sun beside flooded rice paddies, demolished monasteries and thatched huts awaiting food and water. With the arrival of each vehicle carrying precious supplies, they jumped with excitement and surged ahead to get a share.
They were among the lucky ones — aid was actually coming.
"The further you go, the worse the situation," said an overwhelmed doctor in the town of Twante, just southwest of the country's largest city, Yangon, helping a locally organized relief effort there.
"Near Yangon, people are getting a lot of help and it's still bad," said the doctor, who refused to give her name for fear of being punished by the regime. "In the remote delta villages, we don't even want to imagine."
The stage-managed tour appeared aimed at countering global criticism of the junta's failure to provide for survivors of Cyclone Nargis, which left at least 134,000 people dead or missing.
The junta flew 60 diplomats and U.N. officials in helicopters to three places in the Irrawaddy delta where camps, aid and survivors were put on display. The diplomats were not swayed.
"It was a show," Shari Villarosa, the top U.S. diplomat in Myanmar, told The Associated Press by telephone after returning to Yangon. "That's what they wanted us to see."
Ready but rejected
Meanwhile, a French navy ship that arrived Saturday off Myanmar's shores loaded with food, medication and fresh water was given the now familiar red light, a response that France's U.N. ambassador, Jean-Maurice Ripert, called "nonsense."
"We have small boats which could allow us to go through the delta to most of the regions where no one has accessed yet," he said a day earlier at U.N. headquarters. "We have small helicopters to drop food, and we have doctors."
The USS Essex, an amphibious assault ship, and its battle group have been waiting to join in the relief effort as well. U.S. Marine flights from their makeshift headquarters in Utapao, Thailand, continued Saturday — bringing the total to 500,000 pounds of aid delivered — but negotiations to allow helicopters to fly directly to the disaster zone were stalled.
'This is inhuman'
Britain's prime minister accused authorities in Myanmar of behaving inhumanely by preventing foreign aid from reaching victims, and said the country's regime cares more about its own survival than the welfare of its people.
"This is inhuman," Gordon Brown told the British Broadcasting Corp. in his strongest criticism yet of Myanmar's authoritarian government.
Brown said a natural disaster "is being made into a man-made catastrophe by the negligence, the neglect and the inhuman treatment of the Burmese people by a regime that is failing to act and to allow the international community to do what it wants to do."
Click for related content
Local heroes step in to help cyclone victims
Slide show: Myanmar's misery
Myanmar's media, which has repeatedly broadcast footage of generals reassuring refugees calmly sitting in clean tents, announced Friday that the death toll from Cyclone Nargis had nearly doubled to 78,000 with about 56,000 missing.
Aid groups: Estimates are low
According to the international Red Cross, the death toll alone is probably about 128,000, with many more deaths possible from disease and starvation unless help gets quickly to some 2.5 million survivors of the disaster.
But seeing that help gets to the victims is not the first priority of Myanmar's rulers. The military, which took power in a 1962 coup, says all aid must be delivered to the government for distribution and has barred foreigners from leaving Yangon, putting up a security cordon around the country's main city.
Myanmar has been slightly more open to aid from its neighbors.
It has accepted Thai and Indian medical teams, which arrived in Yangon on Saturday. The 32-member Thai team was expected to travel to the delta in the coming days, said Dr. Surachet Satitniramai, director of Thailand's National Medical Emergency Services Institute.
The Indian team consists of 50 doctors and paramedics from the Army Medical Corp., said Indian Air Force spokesman Wing Cmdr. Manish Gandhi. He could not immediately say if they will be allowed to go to the delta.
With the monsoon season coming, Myanmar was bracing for a long haul ahead.
Though patches of hot sun broke through Saturday, heavy rains since the cyclone have hampered relief efforts. Despite the overabundance of water in the flooded delta, shortages of water that is fresh enough to drink grew more severe by the day.
Access to regular supplies of safe drinking water and proper sanitation is essential for preventing waterborne diseases like cholera. Malaria and dengue fever outbreaks also will be a major concern in the coming weeks after mosquitoes have time to breed in the stagnant water.
In one town, tired and hungry refugees stood in the baking sun beside flooded rice paddies, demolished monasteries and thatched huts awaiting food and water. With the arrival of each vehicle carrying precious supplies, they jumped with excitement and surged ahead to get a share.
They were among the lucky ones — aid was actually coming.
"The further you go, the worse the situation," said an overwhelmed doctor in the town of Twante, just southwest of the country's largest city, Yangon, helping a locally organized relief effort there.
"Near Yangon, people are getting a lot of help and it's still bad," said the doctor, who refused to give her name for fear of being punished by the regime. "In the remote delta villages, we don't even want to imagine."
How, in their condition, do you suggest they do so?
They are starving at the moment, and you want them to over throw the Govt, which is in fact the military?
I think he's suggesting that we do it. These assholes are way more deserving of it than Sodom Hussein was. Kim Jong Il needs a good spanking too. Unfortunately for those oppressed people, their governments never tried to assassinate Bush's dad.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They are starving at the moment, and you want them to over throw the Govt, which is in fact the military?
Aint that the truth. Where are the military interventions when there is an actual friggin need.chittydog wrote:
I think he's suggesting that we do it. These assholes are way more deserving of it than Sodom Hussein was. Kim Jong Il needs a good spanking too. Unfortunately for those oppressed people, their governments never tried to assassinate Bush's dad.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They are starving at the moment, and you want them to over throw the Govt, which is in fact the military?
Park a USS Whoop Ass just of Burma and dare Burma knobhead leaders to try it on.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Land war, Asia, etc.
They MIGHT have democratic elections in a year or two, I read it somewhere. The military junta in Thailand ended with democracy coming back, it seems to happen like that often.
isn't that REALLY illegal?Spearhead wrote:
But seeing that help gets to the victims is not the first priority of Myanmar's rulers. The military, which took power in a 1962 coup, says all aid must be delivered to the government for distribution and has barred foreigners from leaving Yangon, putting up a security cordon around the country's main city.
HurricaИe wrote:
isn't that REALLY illegal?Spearhead wrote:
But seeing that help gets to the victims is not the first priority of Myanmar's rulers. The military, which took power in a 1962 coup, says all aid must be delivered to the government for distribution and has barred foreigners from leaving Yangon, putting up a security cordon around the country's main city.
Think they care? Anyway, they're the government, they can make it as legal as they want if they cared.
I'm rarely an interventionist, but I would agree that Burma is a prime candidate for invasion and liberation.
Still, you know what would happen if we did it... The world would condemn us as being imperialistic.
Still, you know what would happen if we did it... The world would condemn us as being imperialistic.
It isn't as painful if you are just dropping bombs.Masques wrote:
LandAir war, Asia, etc.
i'm hinting more towards how we responded when iranians took foreigners hostageghettoperson wrote:
HurricaИe wrote:
isn't that REALLY illegal?Spearhead wrote:
But seeing that help gets to the victims is not the first priority of Myanmar's rulers. The military, which took power in a 1962 coup, says all aid must be delivered to the government for distribution and has barred foreigners from leaving Yangon, putting up a security cordon around the country's main city.
Think they care? Anyway, they're the government, they can make it as legal as they want if they cared.
and yes I agree, Myanmar would be a much more justified intervention than Iraq was.
Last edited by HurricaИe (2008-05-17 19:40:01)
I used to argue for democracy at gunpoint, but it got tiresome.
The Karen people have been jacked over for years. This might have finished them off.
The Karen people have been jacked over for years. This might have finished them off.
What I find funny is that by some people's standards, the US government is so corrupt that it ought be overthrown. But no, sure, let's just forget about sovereignty and see how long it takes the world to fall apart..............
Well, to be fair, Burma is already falling apart. So is Sudan.ZombieVampire! wrote:
What I find funny is that by some people's standards, the US government is so corrupt that it ought be overthrown. But no, sure, let's just forget about sovereignty and see how long it takes the world to fall apart..............
Intervention has its place in foreign policy, but America typically goes overboard with it.
I'd personally argue that generally intervention is ineffective and wasteful.
War to defend yourself against a threat is a whole other story.
War to defend yourself against a threat is a whole other story.
Most of the time, I agree. but invading Korea was mostly beneficial. Invading Bosnia and Afghanistan were as well. I would think that intervention in Burma and Sudan would generally be beneficial, but of course, Iraq has been pretty useless.ZombieVampire! wrote:
I'd personally argue that generally intervention is ineffective and wasteful.
War to defend yourself against a threat is a whole other story.
Afghanistan is still not fixed up, Bosnia was intervention in an ongoing war, and I'm not sure what you mean when you say invading Korea.
Further, it's not the results I take issue with. It's the threat to the concept of sovereignty.
Further, it's not the results I take issue with. It's the threat to the concept of sovereignty.
The Korean War ended up splitting Korea into 2 parts, but thankfully, we managed to save about half of Korea's population from the oppression of Communism. I'd say that it was worth invading Korea, even on principle, since the Soviets and Chinese weren't too concerned about sovereignty.ZombieVampire! wrote:
Afghanistan is still not fixed up, Bosnia was intervention in an ongoing war, and I'm not sure what you mean when you say invading Korea.
Further, it's not the results I take issue with. It's the threat to the concept of sovereignty.
Afghanistan is a work in progress. Pakistan seems to be the major obstacle right now.
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-18 00:02:32)
Uh.......the Korean War wasn't an intervention. The North Koreans attacked the South Koreans, NATO stepped in.
Afghanistan is in no fit state to be declared successful, and I seriously doubt it ever will (though I may be wrong, it's happened before).
Afghanistan is in no fit state to be declared successful, and I seriously doubt it ever will (though I may be wrong, it's happened before).
Right, but stepping in is intervention. I think what you might be getting at is that you're against starting wars, correct?ZombieVampire! wrote:
Uh.......the Korean War wasn't an intervention. The North Koreans attacked the South Koreans, NATO stepped in.
Afghanistan is in no fit state to be declared successful, and I seriously doubt it ever will (though I may be wrong, it's happened before).
No. But it appears we are operating under different concepts. I assumed you meant this
I believe I earlier pointed out I don't take issue with a nation waging war to defend itself.
I believe I earlier pointed out I don't take issue with a nation waging war to defend itself.
Last edited by ZombieVampire! (2008-05-18 00:10:06)
Ah... see... these are the terms I'm thinking of...ZombieVampire! wrote:
No. But it appears we are operating under different concepts. I assumed you meant this
I believe I earlier pointed out I don't take issue with a nation waging war to defend itself.
Intervention = participating in a war for reasons other than self-defense
Isolationism = participating in war only for self-defense
What I'm saying is that a certain amount of intervention is necessary, including humanitarian interventionism.
Why?
(Also, as a side note: the Korean War was for self-defence)
(Also, as a side note: the Korean War was for self-defence)
Last edited by ZombieVampire! (2008-05-18 00:15:04)