Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6529|eXtreme to the maX
President Peres and Mr. Prime Minister, Madam Speaker, thank very much for hosting this special session. President Beinish, Leader of the Opposition Netanyahu, Ministers, members of the Knesset, distinguished guests: Shalom. Laura and I are thrilled to be back in Israel. We have been deeply moved by the celebrations of the past two days. And this afternoon, I am honored to stand before one of the world's great democratic assemblies and convey the wishes of the American people with these words: Yom Ha'atzmaut Sameach. (Applause.)
It is a rare privilege for the American President to speak to the Knesset. (Laughter.) Although the Prime Minister told me there is something even rarer -- to have just one person in this chamber speaking at a time. (Laughter.) My only regret is that one of Israel's greatest leaders is not here to share this moment. He is a warrior for the ages, a man of peace, a friend. The prayers of the American people are with Ariel Sharon. (Applause.)

We gather to mark a momentous occasion. Sixty years ago in Tel Aviv, David Ben-Gurion proclaimed Israel's independence, founded on the "natural right of the Jewish people to be masters of their own fate." What followed was more than the establishment of a new country. It was the redemption of an ancient promise given to Abraham and Moses and David -- a homeland for the chosen people Eretz Yisrael.

Eleven minutes later, on the orders of President Harry Truman, the United States was proud to be the first nation to recognize Israel's independence. And on this landmark anniversary, America is proud to be Israel's closest ally and best friend in the world.

The alliance between our governments is unbreakable, yet the source of our friendship runs deeper than any treaty. It is grounded in the shared spirit of our people, the bonds of the Book, the ties of the soul. When William Bradford stepped off the Mayflower in 1620, he quoted the words of Jeremiah: "Come let us declare in Zion the word of God." The founders of my country saw a new promised land and bestowed upon their towns names like Bethlehem and New Canaan. And in time, many Americans became passionate advocates for a Jewish state.

Centuries of suffering and sacrifice would pass before the dream was fulfilled. The Jewish people endured the agony of the pogroms, the tragedy of the Great War, and the horror of the Holocaust -- what Elie Wiesel called "the kingdom of the night." Soulless men took away lives and broke apart families. Yet they could not take away the spirit of the Jewish people, and they could not break the promise of God. (Applause.) When news of Israel's freedom finally arrived, Golda Meir, a fearless woman raised in Wisconsin, could summon only tears. She later said: "For two thousand years we have waited for our deliverance. Now that it is here it is so great and wonderful that it surpasses human words."

I have been fortunate to see the character of Israel up close. I have touched the Western Wall, seen the sun reflected in the Sea of Galilee, I have prayed at Yad Vashem. And earlier today, I visited Masada, an inspiring monument to courage and sacrifice. At this historic site, Israeli soldiers swear an oath: "Masada shall never fall again." Citizens of Israel: Masada shall never fall again, and America will be at your side.
We believe that democracy is the only way to ensure human rights. So we consider it a source of shame that the United Nations routinely passes more human rights resolutions against the freest democracy in the Middle East than any other nation in the world. (Applause.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases … 515-1.html

Holy cow, does anyone seriously believe peace in the middle east will ever be achieved given the one sided support Israel gets from the US?
And if Dubya thinks the Israelis are the 'chosen people' what does that make him and us?
Fuck Israel
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6978
American politicians fail, fullstop. You can't be 'global policeman' if your aren't impartial. You can't be considered sensible if you're a rabid neo-Christian with a literal belief in things that should be taken metaphorically. As such, they should concentrate on their own affairs and politely fuck off. If I were a Palestinian or any Arab leader I would outright refuse to deal with the US. I would place myself under the protectorship of Russia or China or something.

Let any Arab or Muslim read or hear that confirmation of Bush' commitment to Zionism and tell me again why they wouldn't hate America's guts. I wonder how that shit is being received in the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-05-18 04:26:12)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
Lmfao. I'll admit, I don't give a shit who rules that land whether they're Jewish or Muslim. But damn, that's hilarious. How the fuck does a world leader talk about Abraham and shit like they're real. You're not supposed to take it fucking literally. Especially not when you're a leader of a nation.

Fuck me, the guy is a nutter. Jews must also be laughing at him. I know I would if I was a Jew. The guy would think I'm Gods chosen person. I have to hand it to the Jews, to take over America like this. It's fucking hilarious. And you guys talk about how you're scared of being taken over by the Middle East (lowing)

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-05-18 04:21:40)

AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6621
Its not Bush's fault.. he does not write his speeches.. he would be unable to write something like that.. but i agree that as president, he could have refuse to read that.

Its the US administration that is infected by the zionist plague. 

The good people of America is actually waking up right now.. and soon or later israel will be on her own and she will have to face the consequences of her actions.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7072

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Lmfao. I'll admit, I don't give a shit who rules that land whether they're Jewish or Muslim. But damn, that's hilarious. How the fuck does a world leader talk about Abraham and shit like they're real. You're not supposed to take it fucking literally. Especially not when you're a leader of a nation.

Fuck me, the guy is a nutter. Jews must also be laughing at him. I know I would if I was a Jew. The guy would think I'm Gods chosen person. I have to hand it to the Jews, to take over America like this. It's fucking hilarious. And you guys talk about how you're scared of being taken over by the Middle East (lowing)
I think it's pretty widely acknowledged that the people in the Bible were real, the thing that slightly more open to interpretation is where God exists or not.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
Some were, most weren't. Apart from religious scriptures there's little else (read: nothing) proving they existed. Unlike other people throughout history, where their existence is in the form of many different types of scripture.

You're not supposed to take it literally. So it doesn't matter if they existed or not. As long as you understand whatever idea they're trying to portray. What does matter is when you do take it literally and then take it out of context and then fuck everything up.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-05-18 08:33:23)

Commie Killer
Member
+192|6810

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

Its not Bush's fault.. he does not write his speeches.. he would be unable to write something like that.. but i agree that as president, he could have refuse to read that.

Its the US administration that is infected by the zionist plague. 

The good people of America is actually waking up right now.. and soon or later israel will be on her own and she will have to face the consequences of her actions.
I bet you cant wait for a second Holocaust, huh? Fucking Nazi.
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6621

Commie Killer wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

Its not Bush's fault.. he does not write his speeches.. he would be unable to write something like that.. but i agree that as president, he could have refuse to read that.

Its the US administration that is infected by the zionist plague. 

The good people of America is actually waking up right now.. and soon or later israel will be on her own and she will have to face the consequences of her actions.
I bet you cant wait for a second Holocaust, huh? Fucking Nazi.
Zionists are not real jews..  Learn the difference between the two.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
I don't really like Israel or the Palestinians to be honest.  I look forward to the day when we move away from oil and can let these idiots kill each other for all I care.

Ideally, another Rabin would enter power, and the problem would be mostly solved, but I don't see that happening (or if it does, some Zionist idiot will kill him like last time).
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6834|'Murka

Supporting Israel does not equate to Zionism.

However, I think Bush's comments were ill-advised and ill-timed. Nothing about that speech is going to further his goal of a peace agreement before he leaves office...not that there was ever a snowball's chance in hell of it happening, anyway.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6973|CH/BR - in UK

Commie Killer wrote:

I bet you cant wait for a second Holocaust, huh? Fucking Nazi.
How the hell is that statement called for? I'm aware of what his previous name was on these forums, but I agree with him entirely. Israel has been going against the Geneva convention, and has pretty much taken an entire country hostage, and sooner or later they should face the consequences for their actions. Not because they are Jews, but because they should be held responsible for their actions, just like anyone else.

Fuck affirmative action.

-konfusion
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6868|The Land of Scott Walker

CameronPoe wrote:

... neo-Christian ...
*raises hand*  What is that?
Lisik
Member
+74|6924|Israel

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

Zionists are not real jews..  Learn the difference between the two.
lmao

We knew you are a nazi, but now you just make it to be a undeniable fact!

So please:

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6972/followyourleaderwb9.jpg

As for Abraham and co. they are all real, you can come and visit their graves.

As for speech - what is ridiculous about it? Speech like speech, i saw even worse.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Supporting Israel does not equate to Zionism.

However, I think Bush's comments were ill-advised and ill-timed. Nothing about that speech is going to further his goal of a peace agreement before he leaves office...not that there was ever a snowball's chance in hell of it happening, anyway.
I think there's an issue here with the way we're defining Zionism.

Zionism just means you believe Israel has a right to exist.  Extreme Zionism is the kind of thing that most people are alluding to here.  Extreme Zionism is the kind of thing that involves ignoring the rights of the Palestinians for the sake of expanding Israel's territory.  Generally speaking, the people who stand for this are Christian Zionists (of the crazy Rapture kind) and orthodox Israelis (including the equally crazy Jewish settlers).

So, in summary, Zionism itself isn't the problem.  It's the extremists among them.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

Zionists are not real jews..  Learn the difference between the two.
lmao

We knew you are a nazi, but now you just make it to be a undeniable fact!

So please:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6972 … derwb9.jpg

As for Abraham and co. they are all real, you can come and visit their graves.

As for speech - what is ridiculous about it? Speech like speech, i saw even worse.
Zionists are Jews, but not all Jews are Zionists.  There are a lot of anti-Zionist Jews.  Regarding Abraham and co., like you call 'em, I doubt they are buried where you think they are.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-05-18 13:21:33)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6978

Stingray24 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

... neo-Christian ...
*raises hand*  What is that?
Non-traditional/rational. The literal bible thumpers who care more about irrelevant tales from the Old Testament than the teachings of Jesus. They're becoming worryingly more prevalent - with belief in 'The Rapture' and all that kind of guff.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

... neo-Christian ...
*raises hand*  What is that?
Non-traditional/rational. The literal bible thumpers who care more about irrelevant tales from the Old Testament than the teachings of Jesus. They're becoming worryingly more prevalent - with belief in 'The Rapture' and all that kind of guff.
To be more exact, most Christians that fit that description are known as Dispensationalists.  Why they put so much faith in the interpretations of a nutjob like John Darby is beyond me....  It's almost like the Christian equivalent of Wahhabism.  Both ideologies are mentally unstable versions of their respective religions.
Lisik
Member
+74|6924|Israel

sergeriver wrote:

There are a lot of anti-Zionist Jews.
A LOT it is how much? 100? 200? lol
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

Lisik wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

There are a lot of anti-Zionist Jews.
A LOT it is how much? 100? 200? lol
There are quite a few Jews in America that believe that the establishment of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians.  Some even believe that the Israelis should be relocated to an area where they aren't in a constant conflict with the Islamic World.

I don't know what your experiences with American Jews are, but the Jews I've met here are very diverse in viewpoints and political stances.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7113|Tampa Bay Florida

Turquoise wrote:

Lisik wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

There are a lot of anti-Zionist Jews.
A LOT it is how much? 100? 200? lol
There are quite a few Jews in America that believe that the establishment of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians.  Some even believe that the Israelis should be relocated to an area where they aren't in a constant conflict with the Islamic World.

I don't know what your experiences with American Jews are, but the Jews I've met here are very diverse in viewpoints and political stances.
Right-wing Christianity is to left wing Christianity as Zionist jews are to anti-zionist jews.

At least, thats how I see it.  I could be wrong.
Lisik
Member
+74|6924|Israel
I agree there is a few anti-zionism jews, but definitely i wold not call them A LOT.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6868|The Land of Scott Walker

Turquoise wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:


*raises hand*  What is that?
Non-traditional/rational. The literal bible thumpers who care more about irrelevant tales from the Old Testament than the teachings of Jesus. They're becoming worryingly more prevalent - with belief in 'The Rapture' and all that kind of guff.
To be more exact, most Christians that fit that description are known as Dispensationalists.  Why they put so much faith in the interpretations of a nutjob like John Darby is beyond me....  It's almost like the Christian equivalent of Wahhabism.  Both ideologies are mentally unstable versions of their respective religions.
I do not claim full understanding of Dispensationalist views, but they do take into account both the OT and NT.  There are many modern day dispensationalists whose work I have read and they quite rational, so I don't see the equivalence to Wahhabism at all.  See Norman Geisler, Tim LaHaye, Charles Ryrie, etc.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Non-traditional/rational. The literal bible thumpers who care more about irrelevant tales from the Old Testament than the teachings of Jesus. They're becoming worryingly more prevalent - with belief in 'The Rapture' and all that kind of guff.
To be more exact, most Christians that fit that description are known as Dispensationalists.  Why they put so much faith in the interpretations of a nutjob like John Darby is beyond me....  It's almost like the Christian equivalent of Wahhabism.  Both ideologies are mentally unstable versions of their respective religions.
I do not claim full understanding of Dispensationalist views, but they do take into account both the OT and NT.  There are many modern day dispensationalists whose work I have read and they quite rational, so I don't see the equivalence to Wahhabism at all.  See Norman Geisler, Tim LaHaye, Charles Ryrie, etc.
Both Dispensationalism and Wahhabism are very rational within the context of their respective scriptures.  The issue I and many others take with them is that they aren't rational OUTSIDE of the Bible and Koran.

For example, if you take Revelations literally, your viewpoint is going to be rather skewed.  If I wrote down the story of Revelations in a fictional book and changed a few names so that it wasn't about Christianity anymore and I told you that I believe this would really happen, you'd think I was crazy.  Since it's part of the Bible, people who believe in it literally are considered religious instead.

By the same token, if I took the Koran as literally as possible, my viewpoint would likely be Wahhabist, but I'd also be supportive of murdering loads of people for the sake of spreading Islam.

The problem is that the most literal interpretations of both Christianity and Islam are extremely violent and intolerant.  This is why it's best to take them metaphorically.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-18 13:55:14)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6868|The Land of Scott Walker

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

... neo-Christian ...
*raises hand*  What is that?
Non-traditional/rational. The literal bible thumpers who care more about irrelevant tales from the Old Testament than the teachings of Jesus. They're becoming worryingly more prevalent - with belief in 'The Rapture' and all that kind of guff.
Apologies for my confusion ... the "neo-Christians" are rational as opposed to those who literally interpret the OT and believe in the Rapture, therefore not being "neo" nor rational?  Belief in the Rapture is nothing new and has been prevalent in all the churches I have attended.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England

Lisik wrote:

As for Abraham and co. they are all real, you can come and visit their graves.
Yeah, whatever. Why can't you just accept it's not real, but at least learn the (good) values you're supposed to learn. Because at the end of the day, that's all they ever wanted. None of those "Gods chosen people" bullshit, or any of that "Pope" shit, or "Holy Land" and other shit like that. That's all unnecessary.

Question: Do you actually believe that you're "Gods chosen people" (assuming you're a Jewish Israeli) - Do you actually believe that? Because if you do. You're no better than your best friend Hitler.

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