ATG
Banned
+5,233|6952|Global Command

Business and Media Institute wrote:

“The prices that we’re paying at the pump today are, I think, going to be ‘the good old days,’ because others who watch this very closely forecast that we’re going to be hitting $12 and $15 per gallon,” Hirsch said. “And then, after that, when oil – world oil production goes into decline, we’re going to talk about rationing. In other words, not only are we going to be paying high prices and have considerable economic problems, but in addition to that, we’re not going to be able to get the fuel when we want it.”
http://www.businessandmedia.org/article … 45247.aspx


John Watson of Chevron Oil wrote:

John Watson told energy executives and analysts that the so-called peak oil debate focuses on the level of resources below the ground. He joined the prevailing view of speakers at the Cambridge Energy Research Associates’ annual conference in Houston that the planet won’t run out of oil anytime soon despite opposing theories that a peak and subsequent drop-off in production is imminent or even ongoing.

“Every time we say we’re about to be tapped out, we find new ways to squeeze more out of reservoirs,” he said.

Or, they find new wells in hard-to-reach places, like Chevron’s huge deepwater Jack discovery last year about 270 miles southwest of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico.

But worldwide oil production could still lag behind demand if politics get in the way of access, Watson said.

“The truth is we could still run short of oil, above ground where access and politics come into play,” Watson said.
http://simontay78.wordpress.com/2007/03 … rves-left/

Many of the fallacious policies signed into law have their roots in one thing; profit.

" If The United States government was a business, they'd be out of business. "
How many old geezers have you heard say that?




The government, all governments are a business. We are the product and our tax dollars are their profits.

Major changes are underway in The United States.

I know for a fact that illegal aliens are being normalized in mass numbers already with social security numbers. I look on in amazement the democratic party marches headlong to election promising socialized health care while the borders are basically wide open. The alternative John McCain is a war hero. His other main claim to fame is crafting along with Ted Kennedy the most flabbergasting immigration bill imaginable.

I digress.


For the last eight years the press has more or less beat the mantra " selected not elected. " George Bush is terrible, we got it already.
These naysayers of doom are wherein the problem lies, in that also like the Courts, they have become Activists; like a farcical reality teevee show, a Pugilistic Punditry American Gladiator where left and right talking heads debate distraction issues while we all go to Hades in a hand basket over real problems.
Like a out-of-control government that needs to be sent to the corner with a fucking dunce cap on, erm... whatever, you want to read into that is fine.

Last edited by ATG (2008-05-21 18:11:23)

dan673
Member
+46|6406
There's noting really new here, we all knew what these oil exec's defense would be.
Canin
Conservative Roman Catholic
+280|6898|Foothills of S. Carolina

dan673 wrote:

There's noting really new here, we all knew what these oil exec's defense would be.
How did you come back to the oil execs from ATG's post? I am curious if I missed something.
Canin
Conservative Roman Catholic
+280|6898|Foothills of S. Carolina

pierro wrote:

-People have always said and will always say "we're screwed" and in the end we end up better off...it won't be any different now
Your problems:
-High oil prices
It's annoying but not a big deal and it won't ruin an economy, most of the crunch is coming not from a lack of reserves but from a lack of ability to extract oil quickly enough (nobody in the Mideast is focusing on that and with oil going up they will begin supplying more allowing price to decline) which is by no means as bad. The other reason is because of increased demand in developing economies like China who are not only demanding oil but also American products/services (a good thing)...this isn't even to mention what technologies are around the corner, which all presidential candidates are saying they will back for strategic, economic and environmental reasons...in short it's bad but not that bad and it's not going to get much worse
-"Socialized Medecine"
Canada's health care system costs less and is better then what we have and it is even further to the left then what the democrats are proposing...even if there are some initial hurdles getting it up and running, it won't wreck the economy
-Illegal immigration
The fact that people are coming to the US is a good sign...it means things are going great, also the negative affect illegal immigrants have on the economy is marginal at best, it doesn't really hurt us. Besides it's been happening for years now and the US economy has been growing even then. Slowdowns are not due to them but because of reckless investment firms who will soon be regulated and not have the potential to ruin the economy, fixing the real economic problem
Radical Judges
-The system itself can deal with them, as soon as a democrat wins (which they will) congress will actually be able to do something instead of being in a deadlock with the president...it's only the judges job to interpret the laws (which congress makes) and sensical laws will be made (if you're held responsible to the people every 2 years there's alot of incentive to do a good job)...also one of those judges isn't a be all end all, you can just keep moving further up the court circuit
I have a few counter points to make. First, on the oil. They get it out of the ground plenty fast enough. The problem is the lack of refineries not a lack of oil. And most all the new tech for fueling vehicles will use fossil fuel at some point, even the precious hydrogen car.

Second, on socialized medicine, if it is so great in Canada, why do Canadians keep coming to America for health care?

Third, on radical judges. I think you ought to make the Judges aware of the fact that they are only supposed to interpret the law. Because apparently they do not seem aware of it. As far as being held responsible every two years, think again. We may hold elections every two years for House and Senate seats, but they are different seats each time. Also, a Supreme Court judge is an end all be all. It is a life time appointment, so you get a few judges on the bench that decide to change laws rather than interpret them, and they get to do it till they die or retire.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
If we socialize medicine, we should use the French system as a model, not the Canadian one.  It's much better.

As for oil...  prices will just keep rising until we drill more here and build more refineries.

About the Supreme Court thing...  We should amend the Constitution so that judges aren't appointed for life, but instead, they are appointed for an odd number of years and staggered in such a way that no one president can appoint more than a few per term.

Permanent judicial appointments are the hallmark of autocracy, not democracy.  Interpretations of laws should reflect changing times, which involves changing viewpoints.
dan673
Member
+46|6406

Canin wrote:

dan673 wrote:

There's noting really new here, we all knew what these oil exec's defense would be.
How did you come back to the oil execs from ATG's post? I am curious if I missed something.
Much of the original post is based solely on oil prices, which is in direct control of the oil executives and OPEC as we all know. Everything single time a rise has occurred in the price of oil, the reason of the increase in price always remained in question. So, what was the big excuse for this tremendous increase in oil prices?

Oil Executives wrote:

It's all about economics. Supply and demand.
Since this was an obvious and realistic answer, finding the real truth (we also know what this is, but more importantly, hearing them say it) as to why they're raising these prices is like beating a dead horse with a stick, its pointless.
Canin
Conservative Roman Catholic
+280|6898|Foothills of S. Carolina

dan673 wrote:

Canin wrote:

dan673 wrote:

There's noting really new here, we all knew what these oil exec's defense would be.
How did you come back to the oil execs from ATG's post? I am curious if I missed something.
Much of the original post is based solely on oil prices, which is in direct control of the oil executives and OPEC as we all know. Everything single time a rise has occurred in the price of oil, the reason of the increase in price always remained in question. So, what was the big excuse for this tremendous increase in oil prices?

Oil Executives wrote:

It's all about economics. Supply and demand.
Since this was an obvious and realistic answer, finding the real truth (we also know what this is, but more importantly, hearing them say it) as to why they're raising these prices is like beating a dead horse with a stick, its pointless.
Ok, so you are saying that supply and demand are not reasons for high oil prices? If they cannot pump it out of the ground fast enough, or refine it fast enough ( the latter being a truer reason ) for the demand of fossil fuels, would that not in turn cause the price to go up, both on the crude and the refined oil?
dan673
Member
+46|6406

Canin wrote:

dan673 wrote:

Canin wrote:


How did you come back to the oil execs from ATG's post? I am curious if I missed something.
Much of the original post is based solely on oil prices, which is in direct control of the oil executives and OPEC as we all know. Everything single time a rise has occurred in the price of oil, the reason of the increase in price always remained in question. So, what was the big excuse for this tremendous increase in oil prices?

Oil Executives wrote:

It's all about economics. Supply and demand.
Since this was an obvious and realistic answer, finding the real truth (we also know what this is, but more importantly, hearing them say it) as to why they're raising these prices is like beating a dead horse with a stick, its pointless.
Ok, so you are saying that supply and demand are not reasons for high oil prices? If they cannot pump it out of the ground fast enough, or refine it fast enough ( the latter being a truer reason ) for the demand of fossil fuels, would that not in turn cause the price to go up, both on the crude and the refined oil?
I never stated that supply and demand isn't the real answer. It's a real answer, but not the entire truth. If it wasn't true, why would these people blatantly lie in front of the Senate Committee? Also, this has nothing to do with "how fast" they can pump it out. Much of this growth in oil price is due to speculation. Think of it as, "the tail that wags the dog." It is these large multinational corporations such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley that really set the bar for oil futures trading. These oil futures contracts that they possess, along with unregulated international derivatives, are the mainstream source of determining oil price. It is a loophole in US Government regulation of oil derivatives trading.
dan673
Member
+46|6406

pierro wrote:

I think this thread is veering off topic but before it's (hopefully) set straight, I feel compelled to set straight the issue that speculation is causing oil prices to rise: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/opini … ref=slogin <- Very informative

dan673 wrote:

Much of this growth in oil price is due to speculation. Think of it as, "the tail that wags the dog." It is these large multinational corporations such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley that really set the bar for oil futures trading. These oil futures contracts that they possess, along with unregulated international derivatives, are the mainstream source of determining oil price. It is a loophole in US Government regulation of oil derivatives trading.
and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=101193
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6952|Global Command
It's also about activist and sheeple being lead to higher prices by lack of drilling on our own soil and coast, hamstrung by environmentalist wackos and bright eyed citizens do gooders.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|7004|the dank(super) side of Oregon

ATG wrote:

It's also about activist and sheeple being lead to higher prices by lack of drilling on our own soil and coast, hamstrung by environmentalist wackos and bright eyed citizens do gooders.
My only problem with drilling in ANWRis that there is only an estimated 3.2 billion barrels of oil, less than 6 months worth of US consumption.  It would take 10 years to get the first barrels to market; and 50 years to drain that bitch dry.  It's a waste of time and money that will only serve to benefit already wealthy oil companies and contractors.

Drilling everything we possibly can will only delay advancement.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2008-05-21 21:46:43)

Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7129
It's simple economics.  High demand + lower supply = Higher prices.  And because we virtually have to buy oil, they can make it as high as they want.
Vax
Member
+42|6275|Flyover country

Reciprocity wrote:

ATG wrote:

It's also about activist and sheeple being lead to higher prices by lack of drilling on our own soil and coast, hamstrung by environmentalist wackos and bright eyed citizens do gooders.
My only problem with drilling in ANWRis that there is only an estimated 3.2 billion barrels of oil, less than 6 months worth of US consumption.  It would take 10 years to get the first barrels to market; and 50 years to drain that bitch dry.  It's a waste of time and money that will only serve to benefit already wealthy oil companies and contractors.

Drilling everything we possibly can will only delay advancement.
Wikipedia page says:

Estimates of oil reserves

A 1998 United States Geological Survey (USGS) study indicated at least 4.3 billion (95% probability) and possibly as much as 11.8 billion (5% probability) barrels (0.9 to 2.5 km³) of technically recoverable oil exists in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge 1002 area, with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels (1.7 km³). In addition, in the entire assessment area, which covers not only land under Federal jurisdiction, but also Native lands and adjacent State waters within three miles (5 km), technically recoverable oil is estimated to be at least 5.7 billion (95%) and as much as 16.0 billion (5%) barrels (0.7 to 1.9 km³), with a mean value of 10.4 billion barrels (1.2 km³). Economically recoverable oil within the Federal lands assuming a market price of $40/barrel (constant 1996 dollars - the highest price included in the USGS study) is estimated to be between 3.4 billion (95%) and 10.4 billion (5%) barrels (0.5 to 1.7 km³), with a mean value of 6.8 billion barrels (1.1 km³).[3] (current market prices are over $120 and using inflation rate between 1996 to 2007 it comes out to $89 dollars in 1996)

The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m³) daily. If the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge oil reserves were used to supply 5% of the U.S. daily consumption -- most is imported from Canada (19%), Mexico (15%), Saudi Arabia (11.5%), Nigeria (10.5%) and Venezuela (10.5%)[11] -- the reserves, using the low figure of 4.3 billion barrels (680,000,000 m³), would last approximately 4300 days, or almost 12 years. Using the high estimate, the reserves would last approximately 11800 days, or 32 years. Total oil independence at 20 million barrels per day (using the before mentioned 10.5 billion barrel mean) would only supply the United States for 525 days (or less than a year and a half, but this complete supporting is impossible). Using the increasing price of oil this supply (with 10.5 billion barrel mean and crude oil at over $120 a barrel) would be worth 1,260,000,000,000.00 ($1.26 trillion).
yes it's wikipedia, but it does draw on multiple sources 

I know the numbers game they are doing here is different than what your source is doing, but still, seems more than just a trifle to be had there 
 
Put that together with other domestic sources, (gulf of mexico, etc) and we could make steps toward some oil independence

Americans have been  too spoiled thinkin we should have all of this cheap supply without the eyesore/pollution of our own landscapes to get it. Let us drill, and let us make some more refineries, even though they are ugly.

--I  do agree that all of this is only delaying the invevitable; finding other ways to power civilisation, beyond petroleum
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7129
Our wildernesses do need to be protected, but not at the price of oil.  When the oil is gone, we will leave, and whatever small number of plants and animals that were displaced will go back.  They just need to make some sort of effort not to be too invasive.

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