BF2S Forums In reply to the Memorial Day thread

Let me remind our European members of one fact (because I find that Europeans are always confused by American patriotism and other attached things) that I have had to repeat many times being an American studying and living in Europe: Just because a government does something, does not represent the ENTIRE population of that country; especially an unpopular government (I cannot wait until November).

CapnNismo wrote:

Why does anyone find the need to criticize anything about supporting them? It's not supporting the war, or the cause of the war, or the killing, or whatever. It's about supporting the PEOPLE in the war that are on the ground and letting them know that their job is being appreciated. It's the same thing about supporting your local fire department or police force. You want them to know that even though they are paid poorly, their jobs are meaningful and the population and community supports them.

CapnNismo wrote:

Once again, though. No one is bashing the FACT that you're saying what you're saying. The whole problem, and the reason I created this thread, is because people were posting in a MEMORIAL thread about Memorial Day. A thread that was created for honoring the fallen soldiers. It was never created to make political statements, it was never created to force a viewpoint on anyone else, just a public thread for those that wanted to could come and post their tributes. Simple as that. THIS thread that we are all replying to now is the debate thread. This is the political and viewpoint thread. Keep it here and out of the tribute thread. It's like those people who go to military funerals to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just throws up a giant flag with: WTF? printed on it.

CapnNismo wrote:

Let me remind our European members of one fact (because I find that Europeans are always confused by American patriotism and other attached things) that I have had to repeat many times being an American studying and living in Europe: Just because a government does something, does not represent the ENTIRE population of that country; especially an unpopular government (I cannot wait until November).

But don't trash on others for being overly patriotic. Europeans have it the same way with football: they go CRAZY over the game. Americans have their games, too, but we are also very patriotic and supportive of the people that serve in our armed forces. Our country was only formed just shy of 300 years ago, and the patriotism that was created when that happened has been a tradition in the American culture. Whether or not the American people popularly support the government in power when it has fallen from grace (as the Bush administration did), Americans always support the soldiers serving their country.

Europeans, for the most part, have conscription and patriotism has never been a part of the culture. That's fine, I am NOT BASHING on that in any way, it's just a difference of culture.

Personally, I feel bad for the soldiers of the UK. I met an officer in the UK Army (maybe the RAF, I can't exactly remember; but pretty sure the Army) and he commented that the UK soldiers have no where near the support back home that guys get here like the USO program and such. They come home, get welcomed back and that's it for the most part. It isn't a cultural support from what I have seen in news reports and what I have had related back to me from the Brits I've spoken with about the subject. But once again, it's a cultural difference. No biggy.

The thing is, because most Europeans don't have that part of culture that Americans have, they don't really understand it and think we're all big and stupid cavemen because of it. It's not that we like war or fighting or whatever, but we do have a cultural appreciation for the soldiers in our military (which is strictly voluntary, and that also has a lot to do with it).

If you want a good glimpse into that culture, I invite you to read books by Tom Clancy. He spells it out very well in his writing. I'm reading "Without Remorse" at the moment which takes place back during the Vietnam time period and if you're familiar with history, soldiers at the time didn't get treated very well because it was a totally screwed up war and the draft wasn't exactly popular. Anyway. If you have the time and are interested in reading some awesome suspense spy/military novels and also want to get an idea of what it is like, I invite you to read them. I don't know if they've been translated into Finnish, but the original language is always the best language to read something in.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-05-24 14:40:49)

ZombieVampire! wrote:

When my local fire department or police force do something I find morally objectionable, I don't support them.

Remembering the fallen is a political statement.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I am not saying that criticism of the President means criticism of the country. HOWEVER, I have met many that think because of what GW is doing, all Americans must be like that. Dig?

I understand perfectly, and you're one of the few Americans who understands it.
Most people understand not every American is a rabid neo-con or voted for Duhbya.
But equally a lot of people can't understand how Americans re-elected Bush with an increased majority after everything he has done.
And with your militia system aren't you duty bound to take out any President who abuses his powers? We can't understand why this hasn't happened

Dilbert_X wrote:

One of the few? I think not.. check the approval ratings for him.

Do you mean approval ratings for Bush? I got it, doesn't change him getting re-elected.
I meant one of the few Americans who understands criticism of the US President is not necessarily an insult to America as a whole.

Dilbert_X wrote:

One of the few? I think not.. check the approval ratings for him.

Do you mean approval ratings for Bush? I got it, doesn't change him getting re-elected.
I meant one of the few Americans who understands criticism of the US President is not necessarily an insult to America as a whole.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-05-25 07:48:35)

That should tell you something about the quality of the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

If you guys used terms like "your government" or the "US administration" or something similar, it would probably be easier to tell. But when you say "Americans" or "America" or "You Americans" or something like that, it's very easy to misconstrue that you're talking about the population in general and not the government or GWB in particular.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-05-25 07:53:17)

Dilbert_X wrote:

That should tell you something about the quality of the Kerry/Edwards ticket.

Probably you're right......
Mudslinging and lies by the Bush team hardly helped, it was incredible to see a draft dodger - Bush, and a seven time draft dodger - Cheney, slinging mud at a decorated war veteran and get away with it.

If you guys used terms like "your government" or the "US administration" or something similar, it would probably be easier to tell. But when you say "Americans" or "America" or "You Americans" or something like that, it's very easy to misconstrue that you're talking about the population in general and not the government or GWB in particular.

Depends on the situation, I don't suppose Americans voted to start Vietnam but do it they did, over 3 or 4 Presidents?
Its hard to separate every time.

smuder201 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Who bashed Memorial Day?

No one really has bashed Memorial day just some of the shenanigans that surround it, here in the UK we mourn the loss of our troops in a quiet & reflective way one could almost say a reserved way, that is the way some of us are, but in America it seems it is a celebration of freedom and thanking those who have/are/did serve in the armed forces, as the saying goes its horses for courses, as i have said before we all have the right to celebrate/mourn in our own way so those on both sides have to be aware that there will always be disagreement of some sort & it will be put in varying types of meaning & clarity as is there right to do so.

FEOS wrote:

Keep in mind that many of those who voted for him are saying he's doing a terrible job. Perhaps you have to live here to understand the "voting for the least bad ticket" phenomenon that we have in the presidential elections. As bad as Bush has been, Kerry would have been much, much worse...so choosing between the two is taking the lesser of two evils.