Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

I read this at Hot Air. I'm bringing forth the idea of an Ireland EU bailout out all together. Not just the issue of The Lisbon Treaty.

https://i31.tinypic.com/14msumu.jpg
Ireland may be the poster nation for the EU. Thanks to heavy investment from the multinational organization, Ireland rebuilt its infrastructure and launched its Celtic Tiger economic rebirth in the 1990s. The traditionally poor nation used low corporate taxes to attract business investment, and for the first time in centuries had more people moving to the island rather than fleeing it.  When I traveled through Ireland in 2001, the EU signs showing their investment appeared almost everywhere.

Now the EU wants Irish approval on its Lisbon Treaty, but Ireland sees more of trap than opportunity in today’s EU. In two weeks, Brussels may see its second attempt at a new constitution hit the rocks on the Cliffs of Moher:

The future of the European Union now hangs on how the voters in this small country on the far western edge of Europe vote on June 12. And with less than two weeks to go to polling day, the referendum debate has been hijacked by issues that have little to do with the Lisbon Treaty. While many have accused the campaign against the treaty of being aggressive, populist and misleading, the reality is that it has also been pretty successful.

    The latest opinion poll has the ‘Yes’ camp inching ahead, but only a bit. A poll published in Ireland’s Sunday Business Post showed that 41 percent were now planning to vote for the treaty, up 3 points from the previous poll. However, the ‘No’ side had seen a bigger increase, jumping 5 percent to 33 percent. With a full quarter of the electorate undecided, the spectre of a repeat of France and the Netherlands’ rejection of the European Constitution in 2005 is looming. ….

    The Irish “Celtic Tiger” is losing its teeth as the global financial crisis begins to eat away at job security and leaves many people shouldering the burden of huge mortgages and worrying about their financial future. In addition Irish farmers are riled at EU plans to open up Europe markets to global trade, so much so that many farmers are threatening to reject Lisbon.
The EU strongarmed Ireland into accepting the Nice Treaty in 2001, which allowed for the expansion of the EU. Ireland rejected the treaty in the required referendum — the only EU nation that requires a popular vote for ratification — and the Ahern government had to force a second referendum, which passed. That left a bad taste in Irish mouths, and the Lisbon Treaty may suffer from it.

It’s not the only issue at hand in the referendum, either. Sinn Fein, which can usually be counted on to take a more socialist line, suddenly worries about risking the low-tax system Ireland offers foreign investors. The new constitution would require more central control over taxation and subsidies, and Ireland might see the American companies leave for greener pastures under a Brussels-run tax policy. Some on the “NO” side argue that the Lisbon Treaty might undermine Irish prerogative on abortion policy, forcing legalization in contravention of the Maastricht Treaty, which allowed Ireland to set its own laws on abortion. The “YES” side argues that the Irish should consider “the common good of Europe”.

That is what makes this process so fascinating. Do the Irish consider themselves more European than Irish? Did France and the Netherlands consider themselves less European, and so reject the 2005 constitutional changes that would have relieved EU nations of a significant part of their sovereignty? So far, the EU-as-government experiment has asked its member nations and their citizens to pretend to be both European and nationalist at the same time. That doesn’t seem tenable, not even in the short run. Either the EU is the sovereign and nationalities get reduced to ethnicities, or the EU will be nothing more than a trading organization.

We will know more on June 12. If the Irish reject Lisbon, the EU has to answer that question.

Xbone Stormsurgezz
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
Ireland has never been able to make it without being under somebody's guidance, be it England or EU.  Hell they can't grow potatoes, haven't figured out that cows taste better than sheep, and still believe in leprechauns.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
It sounds like European agriculture should become more corporate, so that it can compete with global markets.  In America, it already is, but our problem is that we still feed it ridiculous things like farm bills even though they don't need the money.

It seems kind of foolish for Ireland to leave the EU though.  The EU is the main reason Ireland went from being basically Second World in the 80s to First World in the late 90s.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

I honestly feel for Ireland. It seems like they are dealing with the same type of non-representation we had couple hundred years ago. The Irish vote was rejected before they even had a chance to decide. Apparently Florida and Michigan aren't they only places where disenfranchisement still exist. Sad really.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6606|Ireland
As long as I can still buy my Lucky Charms for breakfast I don't care what happens to the rest of Irelands agriculture.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6746|New Haven, CT

Kmarion wrote:

I honestly feel for Ireland. It seems like they are dealing with the same type of non-representation we had couple hundred years ago. The Irish vote was rejected before they even had a chance to decide. Apparently Florida and Michigan aren't they only places where disenfranchisement still exist. Sad really.
Although Florida and Michigan was really self-disenfranchisement.

What was I thinking here? The Democratic voters of Florida Michigan didn't vote to move the election up and thus void their delegates.

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2008-05-31 13:47:55)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

nukchebi0 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I honestly feel for Ireland. It seems like they are dealing with the same type of non-representation we had couple hundred years ago. The Irish vote was rejected before they even had a chance to decide. Apparently Florida and Michigan aren't they only places where disenfranchisement still exist. Sad really.
Although Florida and Michigan was really self-disenfranchisement.

What was I thinking here? The Democratic voters of Florida Michigan didn't vote to move the election up and thus void their delegates.
Glad you caught it..lol. No they had no say in the matter.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6828|North Carolina
Yeah, Florida and Michigan really did get screwed.  It looks like the Democrats might not get either of them because of this (at least with Obama).

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/O … May31.html
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Yeah, Florida and Michigan really did get screwed.  It looks like the Democrats might not get either of them because of this (at least with Obama).

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/O … May31.html
They are seating half of the Fl delegates. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080531/pl_ … itics_dc_8

Really shitty when you think about it. Who knows how the dynamics would have changed if Floridians would have known that at least half of their votes would have counted. I know for a fact some people did not vote in the primaries given the preconceived belief of irrelevance.

Anyways, half the Florida delegation doesn't really change anything. Hillary needed them all to have a chance.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6746|New Haven, CT
A reelection would have been the best solution.

And even better solution would be condensing the primaries into a two week period in May or June.
imortal
Member
+240|7087|Austin, TX

nukchebi0 wrote:

A reelection would have been the best solution.

And even better solution would be condensing the primaries into a two week period in May or June.
But this is SOOOOooooooo much more entertaining!  I am rolling over laughing, watching Obama and Hillary go at it, knowing that they are going to be all sweetness and light and pretend that they are best buds once the primaries are over and they realize that the real election is looming.

Oh, and I am tickled at how much money they are spending fighting each other.


***EDIT: Oh, and my appologies to our Irish and European bretheren (in spirit) about my part in derailing this thread.  Sorry, feel free to veer back on topic. (I am staying out of it, since EU and Irish politics does not affect me too much at the moment. <I am not THAT big of a hippocrit>; best of luck to the Irish, though.)

Last edited by imortal (2008-05-31 16:34:58)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7194|PNW

Kmarion wrote:

Apparently Florida and Michigan aren't they only places where disenfranchisement still exist.
Or Washington...no, wait. 'Missing ballots' were 'suddenly discovered' in King County. Gratz, Gov. Gregoire.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-06-01 03:18:24)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
Yeah, screw Ireland, man they should vote for Obama

wait, what?

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