Braddock
Agitator
+916|6712|Éire
A new constitution has come into force in Kosovo - handing power to the majority ethnic Albanian government after nine years of UN rule.

"It comes four months after Kosovo declared independence from Serbia in a move backed by the West but opposed by Serbia and its ally, Russia. An EU mission is being deployed in a supervisory role, but Russia has blocked a formal handover from the UN. Serbia says the constitution will not apply in Serb-dominated north Kosovo. "Serbia does not accept the proclamation of Kosovo's constitution as a legal fact," Serbian President Boris Tadic said in Belgrade. The minister for Kosovo in the outgoing Serbian government, Slobodan Samardzic, is due in the divided city of Mitrovica, where he is expected to announce the establishment of a new Serbian parliament in Kosovo, made up of Serb representatives elected in Serbian elections in May."

I've noticed that many of the same people here who support the war on terror and who harp on about the issues of Muslim immigration into Europe and appeasement seem to have no gripe with Kosovo gaining independence and redrawing the borders in that region. If we are to take the idea of immigrants posing a threat to our Western constitutions seriously (e.g. demanding Sharia systems of Government once Muslim numbers are high enough in a community or population) then what's happening in Kosovo is a huge step towards that kind of situation. It is an actual example of enough immigrants filling up an area to declare their own little country and removing the power from the original Government of the land..and what is the Western world doing (including the US)? Appeasing them.

Kosovan independence is the same thing in principle as all the Muslims in the UK being given a separate Shariah state.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7179|Argentina
I bet Serbians aren't very happy.  This is another case of reparations being paid by giving a country to an ethnic/religious group for the crimes they suffered in the past.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6712|Éire

sergeriver wrote:

I bet Serbians aren't very happy.  This is another case of reparations being paid by giving a country to an ethnic/religious group for the crimes they suffered in the past.
It is exactly like that and it's going to be just as messy I think. This case is particularly controversial because this time round the ethnic group already has its own country...Albania.

What I don't understand is how the people in here who cry about appeasement all the time aren't absolutely up in arms over this, many of them seem to actually approve of it.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7179|Argentina

Braddock wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

I bet Serbians aren't very happy.  This is another case of reparations being paid by giving a country to an ethnic/religious group for the crimes they suffered in the past.
It is exactly like that and it's going to be just as messy I think. This case is particularly controversial because this time round the ethnic group already has its own country...Albania.

What I don't understand is how the people in here who cry about appeasement all the time aren't absolutely up in arms over this, many of them seem to actually approve of it.
Maybe the Albanian lobby organization is good at this too.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6837|Vienna

Dont put all Muslims in one basket, thats just what Osama bin Laden wants.

Just because someone is against IED blowing and RPG shooting extreemist doesnt mean they he has to oppose everything involving Muslims... 

If you want to oppose the independents of Kosovo, than do it for a proper reason. But also please give a possible solution that doesnt involve Kosovars "going back" to Albania. Dont do it because they are Muslims and you support the War on Terror.

And Kosovos independence is not the same thing as group of Muslims in UK or France asking for an independent Sharia State. 


Anyway I hope the world learns a lesson from all of this. If a politician (lets say an Irish one) proposes to make a GREAT Ireland from Spain to Germany and ethnically cleanse it of all non Irish people, DONT SUPPORT HIM.


EDIT: also the topic title suggest that the international community is supporting independent Kosovo to appease Muslims No other reason. Just appease...

Last edited by zeidmaan (2008-06-15 07:12:59)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina
You make some good points, Braddock.

It's hard for me to sympathize with the Serbs though.  In places where an ethnic group dominates the region enough, sometimes independence is all that can be promoted.

For example, Kurdistan will eventually become its own country in Iraq -- regardless of what the Turks have to say about it.  I wouldn't doubt it if Baluchistan becomes a nation in what is currently southern Afghanistan.

And with our own immigration issues with Mexico...  Well, we may actually see Mexifornia become a new state or something like that develop in southern Texas.  America is a bit different from most countries in that we have more decentralization of authority.  It's more likely for a new state to be created than an actual new country form out of ethnic changes.

As for Muslims immigrating to European nations and forming their own countries or changing laws...   well, it seems like a fair assessment to assume that Sharia law will at least be allowed as a companion system for policing within Islamic communities.  The fact that we're letting Albanians take over a chunk of Serbia does seem rather hypocritical, but at the same time, America and Albania really like each other, so we obviously have a major bias in favor of them.  We also don't like Serbia very much.

I'm not saying it's right, but it makes sense given our relations with these two countries.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7043|London, England
Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
I'm suggesting that something like Mexifornia could happen through referendums, not war.  If enough of the Mexican immigrants dominated a region of California or Texas and they lobbied for a separate state, they'd probably win.  They wouldn't be a separate country, but they'd form a 51st state.
chittydog
less busy
+586|7257|Kubra, Damn it!

Braddock wrote:

It is an actual example of enough immigrants filling up an area to declare their own little country and removing the power from the original Government of the land..and what is the Western world doing (including the US)? Appeasing them.
Isn't this how both Israel and the US came into existence?
chittydog
less busy
+586|7257|Kubra, Damn it!

Turquoise wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
I'm suggesting that something like Mexifornia could happen through referendums, not war.  If enough of the Mexican immigrants dominated a region of California or Texas and they lobbied for a separate state, they'd probably win.  They wouldn't be a separate country, but they'd form a 51st state.
It seems to me that anyone who supports Israel with the argument that they were the original inhabitants of that land (a thousand years ago), should also support a separate country being formed from southern Texas or California as the Mexicans are the descendants of the original inhabitants, but this time it's only from a couple of hundred years ago.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6837|Vienna

Turquoise wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
I'm suggesting that something like Mexifornia could happen through referendums, not war.  If enough of the Mexican immigrants dominated a region of California or Texas and they lobbied for a separate state, they'd probably win.  They wouldn't be a separate country, but they'd form a 51st state.
Thats also not the same thing.

Think of a fictional situation. The USA breaks up and than, lets say, Texas tries to take over all of former USA and kill all non Texans. They kill a huge amount of civilians and Mormons get it very very bad. Eventually other states fight off Texas and become independent, and under International pressure the killing of Mormons is stopped.
After all that the Mormons want separation and independence from Texas? Do you support it? 

Now imagine on top of that that Mormons have VERY bad history with other Texans. That there were countless previous genocides on both sides and that this last one is just the tip of the iceberg. And that after all the Texans did, they still mentain that they did nothing wrong. That they didnt kill any civilians. That its all international propaganda etc. Do you support the independence of Mormons?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina

chittydog wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
I'm suggesting that something like Mexifornia could happen through referendums, not war.  If enough of the Mexican immigrants dominated a region of California or Texas and they lobbied for a separate state, they'd probably win.  They wouldn't be a separate country, but they'd form a 51st state.
It seems to me that anyone who supports Israel with the argument that they were the original inhabitants of that land (a thousand years ago), should also support a separate country being formed from southern Texas or California as the Mexicans are the descendants of the original inhabitants, but this time it's only from a couple of hundred years ago.
Very true.  I support Israel from a practical viewpoint, not the typical Zionist one.  I figure that it's better for people to just move on and let Israelis stick around where they currently are, but that Palestinians shouldn't be held in the prison like system they are currently in.

You're right that the Zionists in America are pretty hypocritical though, unless they support what you just posted.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina

zeidmaan wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Americas armed forces are way too powerful to allow anything of that sort to happen (Mexifornia etc..) remember one of the main reasons all this has happened is because Yugoslavia (Serbia) got its arse kicked by NATO. It all boils down to the Armed forces imo.
I'm suggesting that something like Mexifornia could happen through referendums, not war.  If enough of the Mexican immigrants dominated a region of California or Texas and they lobbied for a separate state, they'd probably win.  They wouldn't be a separate country, but they'd form a 51st state.
Thats also not the same thing.

Think of a fictional situation. The USA breaks up and than, lets say, Texas tries to take over all of former USA and kill all non Texans. They kill a huge amount of civilians and Mormons get it very very bad. Eventually other states fight off Texas and become independent, and under International pressure the killing of Mormons is stopped.
After all that the Mormons want separation and independence from Texas? Do you support it? 

Now imagine on top of that that Mormons have VERY bad history with other Texans. That there were countless previous genocides on both sides and that this last one is just the tip of the iceberg. And that after all the Texans did, they still mentain that they did nothing wrong. That they didnt kill any civilians. That its all international propaganda etc. Do you support the independence of Mormons?
Good points.  As I said earlier, it's very difficult to sympathize with the Serbs.  I support Kosovan independence out of practicality, but your analogy hints at a pretty strong historical case for it as well.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7073|USA

Braddock wrote:

A new constitution has come into force in Kosovo - handing power to the majority ethnic Albanian government after nine years of UN rule.

"It comes four months after Kosovo declared independence from Serbia in a move backed by the West but opposed by Serbia and its ally, Russia. An EU mission is being deployed in a supervisory role, but Russia has blocked a formal handover from the UN. Serbia says the constitution will not apply in Serb-dominated north Kosovo. "Serbia does not accept the proclamation of Kosovo's constitution as a legal fact," Serbian President Boris Tadic said in Belgrade. The minister for Kosovo in the outgoing Serbian government, Slobodan Samardzic, is due in the divided city of Mitrovica, where he is expected to announce the establishment of a new Serbian parliament in Kosovo, made up of Serb representatives elected in Serbian elections in May."

I've noticed that many of the same people here who support the war on terror and who harp on about the issues of Muslim immigration into Europe and appeasement seem to have no gripe with Kosovo gaining independence and redrawing the borders in that region. If we are to take the idea of immigrants posing a threat to our Western constitutions seriously (e.g. demanding Sharia systems of Government once Muslim numbers are high enough in a community or population) then what's happening in Kosovo is a huge step towards that kind of situation. It is an actual example of enough immigrants filling up an area to declare their own little country and removing the power from the original Government of the land..and what is the Western world doing (including the US)? Appeasing them.

Kosovan independence is the same thing in principle as all the Muslims in the UK being given a separate Shariah state.
Not sure how that could be.............You head in the sand types, have always maintained, shit like this just couldn't happen........So............which is it?
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7093|UK

Braddock wrote:

A new constitution has come into force in Kosovo - handing power to the majority ethnic Albanian government after nine years of UN rule.

"It comes four months after Kosovo declared independence from Serbia in a move backed by the West but opposed by Serbia and its ally, Russia. An EU mission is being deployed in a supervisory role, but Russia has blocked a formal handover from the UN. Serbia says the constitution will not apply in Serb-dominated north Kosovo. "Serbia does not accept the proclamation of Kosovo's constitution as a legal fact," Serbian President Boris Tadic said in Belgrade. The minister for Kosovo in the outgoing Serbian government, Slobodan Samardzic, is due in the divided city of Mitrovica, where he is expected to announce the establishment of a new Serbian parliament in Kosovo, made up of Serb representatives elected in Serbian elections in May."

I've noticed that many of the same people here who support the war on terror and who harp on about the issues of Muslim immigration into Europe and appeasement seem to have no gripe with Kosovo gaining independence and redrawing the borders in that region. If we are to take the idea of immigrants posing a threat to our Western constitutions seriously (e.g. demanding Sharia systems of Government once Muslim numbers are high enough in a community or population) then what's happening in Kosovo is a huge step towards that kind of situation. It is an actual example of enough immigrants filling up an area to declare their own little country and removing the power from the original Government of the land..and what is the Western world doing (including the US)? Appeasing them.

Kosovan independence is the same thing in principle as all the Muslims in the UK being given a separate Shariah state.
The difference is the British people have't attempted to ethically cleanse British muslims.  IMO once you've pulled the genocide stunt you'll kinda lose when the people decide to give you the finger and breakaway from you.

I'm not negating the land issue, kosovo is part of serbia....but it's the formally opressed that will get the support.  Tough shit i guess.

Last edited by m3thod (2008-06-15 11:11:36)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7054|949

How is it appeasement?  Kosovo has been historically autonomous from Serbia, and moving toward independence far before the current large percentage of Albanians were there.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6972|CH/BR - in UK

If you liked Israel: The Zionist Takeover be sure to join us in this brand new issue, Israel II: Kosovo and the Albanians. You will enjoy the same hardcore fighting scenes and terrorism as you saw in the previous issue, with a brand new perspective in a country a bit closer to home.

In theaters as of February 17th 2008.

-kon

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