SGT_Dicklewicz
Member
+33|7046
This is why America is going into the crapper. The last sentence of the article says it all.

"The authors found that the lowest-achieving students have made rapid gains since 2002 while those at the top essentially languished. Teachers surveyed for that report said they felt pressure to focus on those children struggling the most."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/ … titialskip
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6868|Chicago, IL
no, my college costs are astronomical, I get no rewards for succeeding, while low performers get all the attention and funding...
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6746|New Haven, CT
It sucks. All it does it take emphasis away from learning and onto test scores.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6951|Global Command
It seems to leave them partly blind
And they leave no child behind
While evil spirits haunt their sleep
While shepherds bless and count their sheep
I'll never understand why our hard fought freedoms and quality of life is being pissed away by politicians.

And people wonder why I want some heads mounted on pike poles outside the White House gates.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6383|Washington DC
I go to private school so I don't think we're bound by NCLB (we don't do standardized testing apart from SATs and APs and ACTs). It frankly seems like a much better environment. The really smart kids get put into classes that challenge them, while the not so smart kids get put into classes that are easier but still challenge them (so that they can get better with whatever they're having issues with).

Given the colleges most people here graduate to, it seems to work.
GorillaKing798
Too legit to quit
+48|6536|Tampa, Florida

S.Lythberg wrote:

no, my college costs are astronomical, I get no rewards for succeeding, while low performers get all the attention and funding...
QFT!!!

Last year at my school they had a club for kids who had GPA's below 2.0, they got their own shirts, front of the lunch line passes, free tickets to football games, and half price tickets to homecoming. Yet I get a 4.0 and get jack shit, it pisses me off to no end that they reward kids for being stupid. Great strategy getting them ready for the real world.
Mutantbear
Semi Constructive Criticism
+1,431|6386|London, England

A speech my Girlfriend wrote on education


      I believe our society today doesn’t value intelligence and we see it as a liability rather than an asset. When we see somebody smarter than us, or maybe who just knows an answer we don’t, sometimes we say things like, “Why do you know that?” or “How come you’re so good at this?” Saying things like that, in an almost critical manner, is as if we think they don't have a life, or it's a waste of their time, but is it really? It’s not; it’s simply us viewing knowledge as something useless, as a liability to our mind and life. It's not worth it to the government and school systems; it's not an asset to be smart anymore. It’s a liability, a liability to the government to be smarter and to understand, because then their schools can’t teach to you. Take, for example, this sophomore speech. I wrote my entire speech by myself, from my own thoughts and ideas with absolutely no references. Shouldn’t it be an asset that I can organically create an idea and present it to others myself? It’s original, it’s completely my own doing, and shouldn’t that be something good? Apparently not, since it’s now a requirement to recycle other people’s opinions and regurgitate facts that don’t always mean much. This isn’t to say that needing to research to understand is a bad thing. Researching is basically a visual lecture by a teacher, but what happens when you already know the information the lecture contains? This is something that happens all too often in schools, particularly public schools.

      There are three groups in terms of education- above average, average, and below average.  When schools try to teach to every student in the same way, they fail at the cost of many others. Not everyone is average at everything! Imagine your own academic strengths and weaknesses, and now multiply that times every student in the school. Students’ ability levels, our ability levels, are completely varied for every subject. So why do some students end up stuck in classes where they understand, but it seems that nobody else does, or vice versa? It’s simply easier for schools to teach to one group, the student body as a whole, and act as if this is alright. Think about No Child Left Behind. The name alone is implying that all children should be at the same status. They want to equally divide knowledge and thought among every kid in the nation who goes to school. Clearly, this will never happen, as it is impossible to make every single student be at the same ability level. Lately, schools have been focusing more on the below average group to try and bring them up to par. But who suffers in this? Well, the students who are average and above average. Schools do have the right idea, it is important to make sure that students who need extra help get it, but they don’t have a way to benefit the people that are already past what they’re trying to teach. It can’t be a scale, bringing one group up and another down, there must be a balance. You need to benefit those below and above, or else being ahead becomes synonymous with meaning that it’s perfectly acceptable to idly sit by and not learn anything while other groups are being caught up.

      When kids who already know the material are stuck behind with those who don’t; their potential for bigger and better things is utterly wasted. The government and public schools don’t seem to mind this, because if kids already know the material then their precious test scores are unhindered. It seems to me that schools don’t care about knowledge and learning, they simply care about results. They want us to know what we need for them to get a good grade and a pat on the back from the government for teaching us so well. Schools don’t necessarily want you to achieve. If you’re smart, fantastic, but there is a difference between intelligence and doing well in school. I’ve seen plenty of people smarter than I am fail classes and do poorly, despite being geniuses. Why? Schools don’t care enough about their success. Often times the most brilliant of people don’t do work, because they already know the information and all they see back is a grade. They’re just as smart as the kids who do the work, but they appear less smart than they are because public schools let them fail. They don’t care enough to personally help students who have the capability to do so much more.

      Last year, I went to a private school in Maine. There was a boy in my grade who was very smart, but he got expelled for drugs mid-year. During the expulsion process, one teacher, Debba, did literally everything she could to try and get him help and get him to stay. Even though he had drug problems, she believed he had the capability to do better things and she fought for him. What education needs is more Debbas, needs more teachers who care about their students, care about the success of their students, and want to help them work through their problems. A failure for the student should feel like a failure to the teacher, and a success for the student should be a success for the teacher; there needs to be some sort of advising, mentoring relationship. They need to stop thinking in ideal terms of equality and focus on what actually exists. All the grades in their book have students, people, behind them- students who need more help, some who need no help at all, and some who are smarter who need an extra incentive. People are not the same, we’re different, and we all learn differently and have different capabilities for knowledge. Instead of trying to put everyone on a level playing field, education should cater to the individual.

      How can each student be benefited? Well, I think public schools should be more like private schools. Private schools are more personalized whereas public schools are not. I’ve been to 5 public schools and 3 private schools; I’ve seen all of this for myself. Private schools don’t assume equality for all, they help those who need it and let those who don’t move on, and that’s the way it should be. We go to school to learn, but there isn't one way. Thats why schools aren’t perfect. It would take much more effort, but I think if the initiative to personalize public education was taken, everyone would be able to learn and succeed to the best of their ability. Knowledge is power, as the saying goes, and if we were all able to gain knowledge more effectively, we could do great things with it.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ https://i.imgur.com/Xj4f2.png
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6868|Chicago, IL

HurricaИe wrote:

I go to private school so I don't think we're bound by NCLB (we don't do standardized testing apart from SATs and APs and ACTs). It frankly seems like a much better environment. The really smart kids get put into classes that challenge them, while the not so smart kids get put into classes that are easier but still challenge them (so that they can get better with whatever they're having issues with).

Given the colleges most people here graduate to, it seems to work.
However, that is due to our own personal effort, not the no child left behind program.  The issue with our system is the idea of social promotion, where failing students get passed to the next grade to eliminate an age dispairity.  eliminate social promotion, and there is no need for no child left behind.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6801|MN
Worst educational plan ever.  Both my in-laws are teachers and they almost never stop complaining about how it has affected their teaching.  They are pushed so hard to get the lower students to perform at a certain level that they have to all but ignore the higher acheivers.  Bloody shame. 

Leave those behind that cannot keep up.  I am not for punishing those with learning disabilities, but we need to give kids that ar capable of acheiving more every opportunity to do so.  Most of the under acheivers are not under acheiving because of lack of ability.  Most are because they don't feel the need to work at doing well. 

Not to change the subject, but I blame parents.  If it wasn't for parents pushing for their children to be coddled in school, we wouldn't have this stupid "educational welfare" program.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7144|Eastern PA
Unrealistic standards, it's underfunded, doesn't give instructors freedom, focuses on rote memorization, etc.

Should be scrapped.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6383|Washington DC

S.Lythberg wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

I go to private school so I don't think we're bound by NCLB (we don't do standardized testing apart from SATs and APs and ACTs). It frankly seems like a much better environment. The really smart kids get put into classes that challenge them, while the not so smart kids get put into classes that are easier but still challenge them (so that they can get better with whatever they're having issues with).

Given the colleges most people here graduate to, it seems to work.
However, that is due to our own personal effort, not the no child left behind program.  The issue with our system is the idea of social promotion, where failing students get passed to the next grade to eliminate an age dispairity.  eliminate social promotion, and there is no need for no child left behind.
WTF is that? If a kid fails, make him take the grade again!

Honestly, I'm not trying to sound arrogant but it isn't that hard to get decent grades in school unless you've got a learning disability.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6868|Chicago, IL

HurricaИe wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

I go to private school so I don't think we're bound by NCLB (we don't do standardized testing apart from SATs and APs and ACTs). It frankly seems like a much better environment. The really smart kids get put into classes that challenge them, while the not so smart kids get put into classes that are easier but still challenge them (so that they can get better with whatever they're having issues with).

Given the colleges most people here graduate to, it seems to work.
However, that is due to our own personal effort, not the no child left behind program.  The issue with our system is the idea of social promotion, where failing students get passed to the next grade to eliminate an age dispairity.  eliminate social promotion, and there is no need for no child left behind.
WTF is that? If a kid fails, make him take the grade again!

Honestly, I'm not trying to sound arrogant but it isn't that hard to get decent grades in school unless you've got a learning disability.
Well, I always found the content criminally easy, but that's to be expected with a 148 (and some of you here are higher still) IQ, the problem is, what do we do with the people who were fortunate enough to get an IQ of 80 (whether its genes or parenting is still undecided), and are completely incapable of higher thought?  Our nation only needs so many janitors and burger flippers...

My mother teaches in a school that, until recently, was on the government watch list for low performance, and one of the primary problems in the district was pathetic parenting.  In most cases, the parents spoke little to no English (>95% hispanic in the area) and played no role in the educational process (and in many cases disrupted it).

There is very little a school can do to teach a kid if their family does not emphasize the value of education, and the student does not want to learn.  If it takes 7 years of first grade to reach a first grade reading level, so be it, but stop giving top performers the cold shoulder because they succeed where so many others fail.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6383|Washington DC

S.Lythberg wrote:

There is very little a school can do to teach a kid if their family does not emphasize the value of education, and the student does not want to learn.  If it takes 7 years of first grade to reach a first grade reading level, so be it, but stop giving top performers the cold shoulder because they succeed where so many others fail.
Yes. When I was in 6th grade I didn't work very hard, same in 7th grade. My parents made it very clear that it wasn't in my best interests to be a lazy fuck slacker.

Today I got my junior year report card... I did very well asides from English (which sucks anyway... B) and History (which was a hard class this year, but the teacher likes me and he's cool)... academic honors list   needless to say it was very helpful that my parents were involved in my education.
GorillaKing798
Too legit to quit
+48|6536|Tampa, Florida

HurricaИe wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

There is very little a school can do to teach a kid if their family does not emphasize the value of education, and the student does not want to learn.  If it takes 7 years of first grade to reach a first grade reading level, so be it, but stop giving top performers the cold shoulder because they succeed where so many others fail.
Yes. When I was in 6th grade I didn't work very hard, same in 7th grade. My parents made it very clear that it wasn't in my best interests to be a lazy fuck slacker.

Today I got my junior year report card... I did very well asides from English (which sucks anyway... B) and History (which was a hard class this year, but the teacher likes me and he's cool)... academic honors list   needless to say it was very helpful that my parents were involved in my education.
And what was your reward for getting on the academic honors list?

I got a great certificate with a copied signature of my prinicpal's name on it, while I wait in the back of the lunch line for the gang members to eat first.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6868|Chicago, IL

GorillaKing798 wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

There is very little a school can do to teach a kid if their family does not emphasize the value of education, and the student does not want to learn.  If it takes 7 years of first grade to reach a first grade reading level, so be it, but stop giving top performers the cold shoulder because they succeed where so many others fail.
Yes. When I was in 6th grade I didn't work very hard, same in 7th grade. My parents made it very clear that it wasn't in my best interests to be a lazy fuck slacker.

Today I got my junior year report card... I did very well asides from English (which sucks anyway... B) and History (which was a hard class this year, but the teacher likes me and he's cool)... academic honors list   needless to say it was very helpful that my parents were involved in my education.
And what was your reward for getting on the academic honors list?

I got a great certificate with a copied signature of my prinicpal's name on it, while I wait in the back of the lunch line for the gang members to eat first.
I got a piece of paper, a yellow ribbon, and a $22,000 college tuition bill for being in the top 1% of the nation.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6383|Washington DC

GorillaKing798 wrote:

HurricaИe wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

There is very little a school can do to teach a kid if their family does not emphasize the value of education, and the student does not want to learn.  If it takes 7 years of first grade to reach a first grade reading level, so be it, but stop giving top performers the cold shoulder because they succeed where so many others fail.
Yes. When I was in 6th grade I didn't work very hard, same in 7th grade. My parents made it very clear that it wasn't in my best interests to be a lazy fuck slacker.

Today I got my junior year report card... I did very well asides from English (which sucks anyway... B) and History (which was a hard class this year, but the teacher likes me and he's cool)... academic honors list   needless to say it was very helpful that my parents were involved in my education.
And what was your reward for getting on the academic honors list?

I got a great certificate with a copied signature of my prinicpal's name on it, while I wait in the back of the lunch line for the gang members to eat first.
No reward, asides from the fact that it'll probably look nice on my college apps. Lame
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6801|MN
It is called training yourself for the future.  If you slack off now and think you will pick it up later, good luck.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|6383|Washington DC

LividBovine wrote:

It is called training yourself for the future.  If you slack off now and think you will pick it up later, good luck.
Who was that addressed to?
SGT_Dicklewicz
Member
+33|7046
George Carlin says it best..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMqJvhmD5Yg
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|7103|Disaster Free Zone
Since year 3, I've been in selective classes and schools for smart people, so pretty much everyone had similar needs and everyone was taught at the same pace (more or less).
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6801|MN

HurricaИe wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

It is called training yourself for the future.  If you slack off now and think you will pick it up later, good luck.
Who was that addressed to?
You
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6605|Ireland
I put my 1st grader in a charter school. At the end of the year he was starting 3rd grade math and reading.  He did kindergarden in public school and I had to complain year long to get him in 1st grade math 1 month before the end of the year and they never let him do 1st grade reading even though he was reading when school started.  He passed all the kindergarden benchmarks when tested 1 month into the year except handwriting because he didn't have the motor skills developed yet.

Kid learn like sponges early in life, yet public school holds them back. 

Thanks Republicans, you ran on school vouchers and had a majority and you let ted kennedy write another sell out to the teachers union and passed it hoping that your party wouldn't be blamed.  Fuck you George Bush.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|7068

GorillaKing798 wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

no, my college costs are astronomical, I get no rewards for succeeding, while low performers get all the attention and funding...
QFT!!!

Last year at my school they had a club for kids who had GPA's below 2.0, they got their own shirts, front of the lunch line passes, free tickets to football games, and half price tickets to homecoming. Yet I get a 4.0 and get jack shit, it pisses me off to no end that they reward kids for being stupid. Great strategy getting them ready for the real world.
Yes, you're 4.0 won't help you at all in real life with things like college and scholarships.

I'm beginning to think you don't actually have a 4.0.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6833|'Murka

Whose fault is it that the teachers are teaching to the test? Is it the law that holds teachers accountable for the education of our children or is it the lack of effort on the part of the teachers to build a curriculum that teaches the children what they need to know without resorting to rote memorization and test prep?

Last edited by FEOS (2008-06-25 03:12:44)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6746|New Haven, CT
What is forcing the teaching to the test?

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