Technically a republic, de facto plutocracyCommieChipmunk wrote:
Fixed.Stingray24 wrote:
We're a plutocracy, not a democracy.nukchebi0 wrote:
The day we can convert to direct democracy will not come too soon.
Until we get true representation in congress, not just rich assholes with their own agendas, congress and politics in general will continue down the path that we've stood by and watched them follow for far too long.
We can play the technicality game all day. We live in a plutocracy
Isn't a plutocracy an enlightened despotic regime? Where the smartest and wisest person rules?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Technically a republic, de facto plutocracyCommieChipmunk wrote:
Fixed.Stingray24 wrote:
We're a plutocracy, not a democracy.
Until we get true representation in congress, not just rich assholes with their own agendas, congress and politics in general will continue down the path that we've stood by and watched them follow for far too long.
Someone sounds bitter.CommieChipmunk wrote:
We can play the technicality game all day. We live in a plutocracy
I believe in the American dream. I believe that anyone with initiative and drive can push themselves to the top, no matter what their socioeconomic background. I also believe that these gems aren't stupid enough to go into politics.
edit: Docta I thought it was an economic thing...
wiki agrees
Wikipedia wrote:
Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low.
Bitter? Maybe.
Dissatisfied with American politics, and really politics in general? Absolutely.
Dissatisfied with American politics, and really politics in general? Absolutely.
Well if it pisses you off that much do something about it. Don't use writing it off as a plutocracy as an excuse to sit on your ass and do nothing.CommieChipmunk wrote:
Bitter? Maybe.
Dissatisfied with American politics, and really politics in general? Absolutely.
k lemme get on that... right after I cure cancer, solve world hunger, colonize the moon and dismantle the nuclear arsenals of every superpower.
move to somalia
That may be the modern definition, but the form of governance that Plato illustrated in The Republic was an Enlightened Benevolent Dictatorship, which was why I thought that that was the definition.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Someone sounds bitter.CommieChipmunk wrote:
We can play the technicality game all day. We live in a plutocracy
I believe in the American dream. I believe that anyone with initiative and drive can push themselves to the top, no matter what their socioeconomic background. I also believe that these gems aren't stupid enough to go into politics.
edit: Docta I thought it was an economic thing...
wiki agreesWikipedia wrote:
Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. In a plutocracy, the degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low.
Why did it change so radically though?
Last edited by DoctaStrangelove (2008-07-08 19:41:00)
Plutocracy =/= Platocracy?
If you try and fail, at least you're credible. If you don't even try, at best you're a spewing hot air.CommieChipmunk wrote:
k lemme get on that... right after I cure cancer, solve world hunger, colonize the moon and dismantle the nuclear arsenals of every superpower.
That's not all your usually spewing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
If you try and fail, at least you're credible. If you don't even try, at best you're a spewing hot air.CommieChipmunk wrote:
k lemme get on that... right after I cure cancer, solve world hunger, colonize the moon and dismantle the nuclear arsenals of every superpower.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Being a "Debate and Serious Talk" section of an online forum I really don't see how my hot air is any different from the hot air spewed from anyone else
And as much as I'd like to go onto a corner in downtown Portland and hand out leaflets about how our government fails, I work a full time job from 6 to 2:30 and a part time job from 3 to 5 after that. On Saturdays I work from 8:30 to 2 and on Sundays I volunteer at a local hospital from 4-8. I like to actually experience life in the hours that I'm not working so I guess rather than protesting on street corners, I have to compromise by spewing hot air on an online forum.
And as much as I'd like to go onto a corner in downtown Portland and hand out leaflets about how our government fails, I work a full time job from 6 to 2:30 and a part time job from 3 to 5 after that. On Saturdays I work from 8:30 to 2 and on Sundays I volunteer at a local hospital from 4-8. I like to actually experience life in the hours that I'm not working so I guess rather than protesting on street corners, I have to compromise by spewing hot air on an online forum.
Last edited by CommieChipmunk (2008-07-08 19:55:56)
I have bowel problems okay?Kmarion wrote:
That's not all your usually spewing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
If you try and fail, at least you're credible. If you don't even try, at best you're a spewing hot air.CommieChipmunk wrote:
k lemme get on that... right after I cure cancer, solve world hunger, colonize the moon and dismantle the nuclear arsenals of every superpower.
Presenting ideas or debating your opinion is one thing. Complaining about the state of affairs in your own country and painting yourself in a victimized light doesn't get you anywhere.CommieChipmunk wrote:
Being a "Debate and Serious Talk" section of an online forum I really don't see how my hot air is any different from the hot air spewed from anyone else
lol..Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I have bowel problems okay?Kmarion wrote:
That's not all your usually spewing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
If you try and fail, at least you're credible. If you don't even try, at best you're a spewing hot air.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Where, exactly, did I say that I was a victim? I said that I'm dissatisfied about how our system of government it presently working..Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I have bowel problems okay?Kmarion wrote:
That's not all your usually spewing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
If you try and fail, at least you're credible. If you don't even try, at best you're a spewing hot air.Presenting ideas or debating your opinion is one thing. Complaining about the state of affairs in your own country and painting yourself in a victimized light doesn't get you anywhere.CommieChipmunk wrote:
Being a "Debate and Serious Talk" section of an online forum I really don't see how my hot air is any different from the hot air spewed from anyone else
Painting yourself in a victimized light. You claim it is a plutocracy and that that is a bad thing, apparently saying you are not part of the ruling elite and wish you were. (or at the very least that the people currently in power weren't) If you're dissatisfied, do something about it.CommieChipmunk wrote:
Where, exactly, did I say that I was a victim? I said that I'm dissatisfied about how our system of government it presently working..Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I have bowel problems okay?Kmarion wrote:
That's not all your usually spewing.Presenting ideas or debating your opinion is one thing. Complaining about the state of affairs in your own country and painting yourself in a victimized light doesn't get you anywhere.CommieChipmunk wrote:
Being a "Debate and Serious Talk" section of an online forum I really don't see how my hot air is any different from the hot air spewed from anyone else
I'm still trying to see how I painted myself in a victimized light, if I did it was unintentional. I've stated that it our government is a plutocracy because it's what I've observed; the next time I see a lower middle class blue collar car salesmen run for any governmental position, my mind may change. I've never wished to be a part of the 'ruling elite,' or to be an elected official as I generally hear it called, and I don't believe that in this day and age anyone in their right mind would want to be part of American politics.
As much as I'd love to believe that humanity is kindhearted and always has the best intentions of others in mind, I live in reality. I know that the majority of those who run for any position of power have a personal agenda and I think that it's dangerous that the only people who can truly see their agendas proliferate into our government are those with enough wealth to not only campaign, but also give up their 'day job' for a seat in congress, the senate, etc.
As much as the "American Dream" would convince me that I can do anything I set my mind to, there's really nothing that I can do to change the way a country of over 300 million people is governed.
As much as I'd love to believe that humanity is kindhearted and always has the best intentions of others in mind, I live in reality. I know that the majority of those who run for any position of power have a personal agenda and I think that it's dangerous that the only people who can truly see their agendas proliferate into our government are those with enough wealth to not only campaign, but also give up their 'day job' for a seat in congress, the senate, etc.
As much as the "American Dream" would convince me that I can do anything I set my mind to, there's really nothing that I can do to change the way a country of over 300 million people is governed.
I'm a victim. All Floridians are .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Victor Davis Hanson seems to think they are the same thing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Traditional problem? The Greeks eventually fell apart? Are you trying to compare the industrialized Western world to the Greeks?nukchebi0 wrote:
What was the traditional problem with direct democracy again?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Direct democracy in a nation of 300 million is a fool's dream, just as bad as communism.
To address the middle point, do you know why the Greeks fell apart?
alqaeda
They led the insurgency in the peloponnesian wars.God Save the Queen wrote:
alqaeda
Xbone Stormsurgezz
...negative. He is referring specifically to Western warfare, which has many similar values throughout Western history. He is saying (at least according to the wiki article) that Western values, including political ideals, create these military doctrines, but he does not talk in any way about how the application of Western political values differs across the various civilizations during the last couple millenniums.nukchebi0 wrote:
Victor Davis Hanson seems to think they are the same thing.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Traditional problem? The Greeks eventually fell apart? Are you trying to compare the industrialized Western world to the Greeks?nukchebi0 wrote:
What was the traditional problem with direct democracy again?
To address the middle point, do you know why the Greeks fell apart?
Alexander the Great died prematurely, specifying no system of rule in his wake. Eventually Rome conquered the land considered Ancient Greece.
You present the idea of a plutocracy in a poor light, as if you wish it was not the case. A plutocracy would keep anyone not in the ruling class already from achieving any position that would be powerful enough to change the system, and you wish you were in a position to do so. You are presenting yourself as someone who wishes he could change things, but the biggest thing holding you back (though not the only thing) is yourself.CommieChipmunk wrote:
I'm still trying to see how I painted myself in a victimized light, if I did it was unintentional. I've stated that it our government is a plutocracy because it's what I've observed; the next time I see a lower middle class blue collar car salesmen run for any governmental position, my mind may change. I've never wished to be a part of the 'ruling elite,' or to be an elected official as I generally hear it called, and I don't believe that in this day and age anyone in their right mind would want to be part of American politics.
No one is saying the world is all hugs and kisses. I agree with everything you said in that paragraph. My only problem is that you have implied that you will never have enough wealth to quit your day job, and I ask why not.CommieChipmunk wrote:
As much as I'd love to believe that humanity is kindhearted and always has the best intentions of others in mind, I live in reality. I know that the majority of those who run for any position of power have a personal agenda and I think that it's dangerous that the only people who can truly see their agendas proliferate into our government are those with enough wealth to not only campaign, but also give up their 'day job' for a seat in congress, the senate, etc.
Well not thinking like that you can't.CommieChipmunk wrote:
As much as the "American Dream" would convince me that I can do anything I set my mind to, there's really nothing that I can do to change the way a country of over 300 million people is governed.
Ali baba and the 300 spartans?Kmarion wrote:
They led the insurgency in the peloponnesian wars.God Save the Queen wrote:
alqaeda