It is definitely the parents pushing their views on the child, the long-term affect is she will resent her parents for making her a tool.
I can see where not allowing you use your precious generalization defense would make it iimpossible to have an argument with me. Also ,we are not in a court of law so my opinion counts. There are no exact precise terms to argue, since if 1,000,000 muslims were violent and there 500 who were not, you would throw that generalization bullshit out as a defense.CameronPoe wrote:
lowing you're inherent bias and meaningless generalisation disclaimer makes it impossible to have a proper argument. In a court of law will you supply a generalisation disclaimer, in case anything you might say might incriminate you? I think not. They damage your arguments because you won't argue in exact and precise terms. You dismiss the criticisms because if you had to deal with them you would have to do so through gritted teeth.lowing wrote:
It is difference because it is not the same thing: this is for Cam as well, regardless as t owhat the swastika used to represent, it has unfortunately been replaced with what it means now, just like the confederate flag...so this was already addressed.
The cartoon about Muhammad was not meant as hate nor was it delivered as such. It addressed the hypocrisy over Islams peace and love store front and its actions around the world.
Before you say it, read my sig...DO NOT give me a generaliziation argument... Like it or not, Islam IS NOT in a positive light regarding viloence done under its name, and the peace that it supposedly preaches.....are we really gunna disagree on this as well?
Another thought sprung to mind: your 'appeasement' theory - could we not equally say, using your mindset, that this infringement of civil liberty is just appeasement of the politically correct brigade? One must be thoroughly consistent here.
Islam is not in a positive light regarding violence under its name only because of a concerted media blitz attempting to copper-fasten an association between the religion itself and the acts of a few radical nutters. You choose to believe Islam can be characterised as such, that's your prerogative, but again it's a completely incorrect gross generalisation.
From ATG's recent thread, quoted from The Sun: "The Muslim Council of Britain also blasted the poem, branding al-Qaeda “mass murderers”".
Your 'one rule for one group of people/instance of offence, another rule for another group of people/instance of offence' just shows you to be inconsistent and that you have inherent biases that don't make you a free-thinking impartial arbiter on this topic.
I alreadt came to grips eith the fact that this is an infringment of this family's civil liberties. This family has every right to express themselves as they see fit, the rest of society has every right to not like it, and not include them in society.
The image of Islam is self induced, it was not invented by anyone. I certainly didn't make it up. I however, can read and I see the actions of nations governed under Islamic rule, and I am not impressed.
You constantly manage to exclaim that there are only a few of them.....Do you really believe that? If so, why is it so hard to keep them down. We do it withour "few". How is it a "few" are so successfully able to hijack such a peaceful religion and do with it what they have done?
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?Braddock wrote:
FAO: Lowing
You expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism and take the fact that this does not happen as some sort of proof that the entire Muslim population somehow condone everything from stoning for adultery to the use of child shields.
On the other hand if someone criticises America for not collectively speaking out against the foreign policies of the Bush administration, the use of torture camps or the actions of 'bad-apple' soldiers they are speaking in generalisations and are not accepting the reality that not every American shares exactly the same views. Double standards in my opinion.
You have your own way of looking at the world lowing and seemingly cannot truly appreciate the viewpoints of other people different to yourself. These cartoons are horribly offensive and upsetting to anyone who practices the Islamic faith...both the Muslim who has never hurt a fly in his entire life and the Muslim extremist, and yet you feel the actions of the extremist alone validate the right to publish these cartoons.
Then along comes an issue about some people who get offended because of a SYMBOL that has negative connotations for certain sections of society because of the second world war and you want to change your own rules. I'm sorry lowing but that swastika is hurting people no more or no less than those Mohamed cartoons. You just want to have censorship that takes care of your own sensibilities.
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
Yeah yeah I know "horribly offensive", and MORE offensive than a guy getting his head sawed off on TV in the name of Islam.......Yer right I should imbrace this decapitation loving, cartoon hating religion...........Where do I sign up??lowing wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?Braddock wrote:
FAO: Lowing
You expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism and take the fact that this does not happen as some sort of proof that the entire Muslim population somehow condone everything from stoning for adultery to the use of child shields.
On the other hand if someone criticises America for not collectively speaking out against the foreign policies of the Bush administration, the use of torture camps or the actions of 'bad-apple' soldiers they are speaking in generalisations and are not accepting the reality that not every American shares exactly the same views. Double standards in my opinion.
You have your own way of looking at the world lowing and seemingly cannot truly appreciate the viewpoints of other people different to yourself. These cartoons are horribly offensive and upsetting to anyone who practices the Islamic faith...both the Muslim who has never hurt a fly in his entire life and the Muslim extremist, and yet you feel the actions of the extremist alone validate the right to publish these cartoons.
Then along comes an issue about some people who get offended because of a SYMBOL that has negative connotations for certain sections of society because of the second world war and you want to change your own rules. I'm sorry lowing but that swastika is hurting people no more or no less than those Mohamed cartoons. You just want to have censorship that takes care of your own sensibilities.
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
Relatively small numbers of people bothered to protest the cartoons lowing. The Muslim Council of Britain, many Arabic governments, many Islamic organisation regularly speak out and condemn Al Qaeda. But you'll never acknowledge that will you? Of course not.lowing wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
What has that got to do with mainstream Islam? What do 'pro-life' abortion clinic bombers have to do with Christianity? Precisely nothing.lowing wrote:
MORE offensive than a guy getting his head sawed off on TV in the name of Islam.......
WHERE was the condemnation over the beheadings??? I certainly couldn't turn on the fucking tv the days after the cartoon was printed without seeing all of the OUTRAGE!!, Where was it during the beheading craze?? You will never acknowledge that it wasn't there will you??CameronPoe wrote:
Relatively small numbers of people bothered to protest the cartoons lowing. The Muslim Council of Britain, many Arabic governments, many Islamic organisation regularly speak out and condemn Al Qaeda. But you'll never acknowledge that will you? Of course not.lowing wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
That's because western media and the likes of Rupert Murdoch know that Muslim-demonisation shifts papers and sells advertising time. You honestly think mainstream Muslims think that the beheadings are commendable? You're delirious!lowing wrote:
WHERE was the condemnation over the beheadings??? I certainly couldn't turn on the fucking tv the days after the cartoon was printed without seeing all of the OUTRAGE!!, Where was it during the beheading craze?? You will never acknowledge that it wasn't there will you??
I see so there was OUTRAGE it was just covered up by the media huh?? and I am delerious??CameronPoe wrote:
That's because western media and the likes of Rupert Murdoch know that Muslim-demonisation shifts papers and sells advertising time. You honestly think mainstream Muslims think that the beheadings are commendable? You're delirious!lowing wrote:
WHERE was the condemnation over the beheadings??? I certainly couldn't turn on the fucking tv the days after the cartoon was printed without seeing all of the OUTRAGE!!, Where was it during the beheading craze?? You will never acknowledge that it wasn't there will you??
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/ … 6842.shtml
I guess Powell was hoodwinked by the media as well huh?
I guess Powell was hoodwinked by the media as well huh?
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-09 14:25:58)
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0314/p06s01-woeu.html
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/Londonbombs.htm
http://www.namibian.com.na/2004/august/ … CF54B.html
http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?sect … mp;id=9040
http://www.unholywars.org/entry/muslims … terrorism/
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast … index.html
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xh … feature-01
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/Londonbombs.htm
http://www.namibian.com.na/2004/august/ … CF54B.html
http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?sect … mp;id=9040
http://www.unholywars.org/entry/muslims … terrorism/
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast … index.html
http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xh … feature-01
Jesus, there you go again with the generalisations. How many Muslims protested lowing? What percentage of the Muslim world 'united' in protest over the cartoons?lowing wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0314/p06s01-woeu.html
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php..no mention of beheading outrage
http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/Londonbombs.htm no mention of beheading outrage
http://www.namibian.com.na/2004/august/ … CF54B.html no mention of beheading outrage
http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?sect … mp;id=9040 this one calls Al Qaeda "beloved brothers", VERY cool
"I'm ... appealing to ... brothers in al-Qaeda organization everywhere," Ibrahim's statement said. "I'm appealing to you to stop and review your stances, to put your effort, the Jihad (holy war) ... in the right place and time, away from infighting among Muslims ... away from killing civilians, both Muslims and non Muslims."
"My beloved brothers in al-Qaeda: Islamic movements revising ideas and views in religion and life is not a sign of weakness but a proof of strength and vitality," he added.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php..no mention of beheading outrage
http://www.muslimparliament.org.uk/Londonbombs.htm no mention of beheading outrage
http://www.namibian.com.na/2004/august/ … CF54B.html no mention of beheading outrage
http://aawsat.com/english/news.asp?sect … mp;id=9040 this one calls Al Qaeda "beloved brothers", VERY cool
"I'm ... appealing to ... brothers in al-Qaeda organization everywhere," Ibrahim's statement said. "I'm appealing to you to stop and review your stances, to put your effort, the Jihad (holy war) ... in the right place and time, away from infighting among Muslims ... away from killing civilians, both Muslims and non Muslims."
"My beloved brothers in al-Qaeda: Islamic movements revising ideas and views in religion and life is not a sign of weakness but a proof of strength and vitality," he added.
Enough to get the world to consider if printing these cartoons is worth the violence it will bringBraddock wrote:
Jesus, there you go again with the generalisations. How many Muslims protested lowing? What percentage of the Muslim world 'united' in protest over the cartoons?lowing wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm do I "expect that all Muslims (all the different nationalities and sects) should unite and collectively speak out any time anything deplorable is done under the banner of Islamic extremism"?
Ya mean like they did over a cartoon??? Yeah, that would be great.
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-09 14:38:15)
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=262
"It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=277
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=269
"It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=277
http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=269
Let me get this straight: condemning the killing of civilians is a bad thing??lowing wrote:
"I'm ... appealing to ... brothers in al-Qaeda organization everywhere," Ibrahim's statement said. "I'm appealing to you to stop and review your stances, to put your effort, the Jihad (holy war) ... in the right place and time, away from infighting among Muslims ... away from killing civilians, both Muslims and non Muslims."
Then perhaps it is time they did JUST THAT......Yet again though, no Musl9im outrage over the beheadings...........Now shall I go google your ass some outrage over cartoons??CameronPoe wrote:
"It is our Islamic duty not only to utterly and totally condemn such evil actions, but to provide all the necessary support to prevent such atrocities from taking place."
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-09 14:42:34)
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=482
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=484
Condemning the kidnapping and beheading of Kenneth Bigley in Iraq... whatever next???
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=484
Condemning the kidnapping and beheading of Kenneth Bigley in Iraq... whatever next???
"The British Muslim community have been very clear in their condemnation of the kidnapping of Ken Bigley as well as the killing of other hostages. We are very grateful to the Muslim Council of Britain and will do all we can to support their efforts. We all hope to see Ken safely back with his family''. Jack Straw, British Foreign Secretary
Ahhhhhhh Britsh Muslims huh??CameronPoe wrote:
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=482
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=484
Condemning the kidnapping and beheading of Kenneth Bigley in Iraq... whatever next???
and since you claim there is a very insignificant percentage of Muslims in Europe, what percentage do the "British Muslims" make up in all of their glorious outrage compared to Islam as a whole??
Despite all the evidence to the contrary - not one mainstream organisation condoning beheadings or suicide bombings - lowing, with his entrenched stubborness, will hold fast to his erroneous deeply ingrained bigotry. There really is no point debating with you lowing. Even when presented with facts, declarations, the works, you just won't fucking acknowledge reality.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-09 14:47:52)
answer the questionlowing wrote:
Ahhhhhhh Britsh Muslims huh??CameronPoe wrote:
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=482
http://www.mcb.org.uk/features/features.php?ann_id=484
Condemning the kidnapping and beheading of Kenneth Bigley in Iraq... whatever next???
and since you claim there is a very insignificant percentage of Muslims in Europe, what percentage do the "British Muslims" make up in all of their glorious outrage compared to Islam as a whole??
Welllll, I do know of the reality of the Islamic world and their outrage over cartoons, yet eerily and comparatively silent over the beheadings of innocent people....It is YOU who will not acknowledge reality...and that is the reality of it.CameronPoe wrote:
Despite all the evidence to the contrary - not one mainstream organisation condoning beheadings or suicide bombings - lowing, with his entrenched stubborness, will hold fast to his erroneous thought deeply ingrained bigotry. There really is no point debating with you lowing. Even when presented with facts, declarations, the works, you just won't fucking acknowledge reality.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News … le03.shtml
What kind of percentage do Iraqis make up, I wonder?
Deputy Head of the Islamic Party Iyaad Samarrai said the abhorrent treatment of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers should never give an excuse for treating U.S. prisoners the same way.
"This is absolutely wrong," he told IOL, asserting that "Islam does prohibit the killing or the maltreatment of prisoners."
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News … le08.shtml
Several scholars from Al-Azhar, the world's highest Sunni religious authority, condemned the decapitation of an American civilian by unknown people in Iraq, saying Islam stands against such acts.
"Islam respects the human being, dead or alive, and cutting off the American's head was an act of mutilation forbidden by Islam," Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi, a member of Al-Azhar's Islamic Research Academy, told IslamOnline.net.
What kind of percentage do Iraqis make up, I wonder?
Deputy Head of the Islamic Party Iyaad Samarrai said the abhorrent treatment of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers should never give an excuse for treating U.S. prisoners the same way.
"This is absolutely wrong," he told IOL, asserting that "Islam does prohibit the killing or the maltreatment of prisoners."
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News … le08.shtml
Several scholars from Al-Azhar, the world's highest Sunni religious authority, condemned the decapitation of an American civilian by unknown people in Iraq, saying Islam stands against such acts.
"Islam respects the human being, dead or alive, and cutting off the American's head was an act of mutilation forbidden by Islam," Ibrahim Al-Fayoumi, a member of Al-Azhar's Islamic Research Academy, told IslamOnline.net.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-09 14:51:58)
I've showed and am showing you, and I can go on all night, that THEY ARE AND HAVE BEEN CONDEMNING TERROR. GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK STUBBORN MOTHERFUCKING SKULL. USE YOUR EYES, CLICK THE LINKS, READ THE WORDS, WAKE THE FUCK UP.lowing wrote:
Welllll, I do know of the reality of the Islamic world and their outrage over cartoons, yet eerily and comparatively silent over the beheadings of innocent people....It is YOU who will not acknowledge reality...and that is the reality of it.CameronPoe wrote:
Despite all the evidence to the contrary - not one mainstream organisation condoning beheadings or suicide bombings - lowing, with his entrenched stubborness, will hold fast to his erroneous thought deeply ingrained bigotry. There really is no point debating with you lowing. Even when presented with facts, declarations, the works, you just won't fucking acknowledge reality.