Da commander in cheef of the US military is a religious christian nut and thus is reflective of the US military ergo the US military is a cult.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
and I still say fuck your links. My personal experience far outweighs your google search. Believe what you want.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Whatever you say mister know it all.God Save the Queen wrote:
yes it is. fuck your articles. I was an atheist soldier. Ive known plenty of other atheist soldiers. get out of your internet world.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
No it's not. Read the articles in the links I just posted.Her fight against proselytizing is taking place in Colorado Springs - control central for the most radical elements of the Christian Right. James "tolerance is a homosexual plot" Dobson's Focus on the Family is based there - a concern so large that there is no need to use a street address on a letter. Also nearby is the Officers' Christian Fellowship, an organization whose express purpose is to create "ambassadors for Christ in uniform." Its slogan is: "Christian Officers Exercising Biblical Leadership to Raise up a Godly Military." (That's funny, the Taliban say something very similar.)
There is significant cross-pollination between the local evangelical groups and the Academy, to a point where cadets are reportedly cajoled, harangued and even bullied into being "saved."
Mikey Weinstein, an attorney in Albuquerque, N.M., has been collecting complaints of this nature for more than a year and says he has about 150 of them. Weinstein is a graduate of the Academy, as is his elder son. But when his youngest son, who is a member of the class of 2007, was called a "f--- Jew" and taunted as a Christ killer, Weinstein got involved.
"The Air Force Academy is suffering from a constitutional disease," Weinstein said. "They are trying to tell people whose God is best." He said his complaints have received little more than lip-service.
"I love and cherish the Academy," he said, "but it's been overtaken by the evangelical right."
Morton, a 48-year-old Lutheran minister, has seen this up close over the past 2 1/2 years. She says the academy is sending cadets the message that adopting Christian conservative evangelical values is key to their success at the school.
"There's nothing wrong with people reaching out to cadets," Morton said. "But when the purpose is to proselytize and make the military into a godly force, then that's inappropriate."For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure.
That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.
Frank Bussey, director of Military Ministry at Fort Jackson, has been telling soldiers at Fort Jackson that "government authorities, police and the military = God's Ministers,"
Bussey's teachings from the "God's Basic Training" Bible study guide he authored says US troops have "two primary responsibilities": "to praise those who do right" and "to punish those who do evil - "God's servant, an angel of wrath." Bussey's teachings directed at Fort Jackson soldiers were housed on the Military Ministry at Fort Jackson web site. Late Wednesday, the web site was taken down without explanation. Bussey did not return calls for comment. The web site text, however, can still be viewed in an archived format.
The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.Religion in the military has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years, especially because the close confines of military life often put two larger societal trends — the rise of evangelicals and the rise of people of no organized faith — onto a collision course.
At the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., nine midshipmen recently asked the American Civil Liberties Union to petition the school to abolish daily prayer at weekday lunch, where attendance is mandatory. The midshipmen and the A.C.L.U. assert that the practice is unconstitutional, based in large part on a 2004 appellate court ruling against a similar prayer at the Virginia Military Institute. The civil liberties group has threatened legal action if the policy is not changed.
But the academy is not persuaded.
“The academy does not intend to change its practice of offering midshipmen an opportunity for prayer or devotional thought during noon meal announcements,” Cmdr. Ed Austin, an academy spokesman, said in an e-mail message.
In interviews at West Point, seven cadets, two officers and a former chaplain said that religion, especially evangelical Christianity, was a constant at the academy. They said that until recently, cadets who did not attend religious services during basic training were sometimes referred to as “heathens.” They said mandatory banquets begin with prayer, including a reading from the Bible at a recent gala.A private missionary group has assigned a pair of full-time Christian ministers to the U.S. Air Force Academy, where they are training cadets to evangelize among their peers, according to a confidential letter to supporters.
The letter makes clear that the organized evangelization effort has continued this year despite an outcry over alleged proselytizing at the academy that has prompted a Pentagon investigation, congressional hearings, a civil lawsuit and new Air Force guidelines on religion.
"Praise God that we have been allowed access by the Academy into the cadet areas to minister among the cadets. We have recently been given an unused classroom to meet with cadets at any time during the day," the husband-and-wife team of Darren and Gina Lindblom said in the Oct. 11 letter to their donors.
Ahh yes, the last resorts of some one that knows they've been proven wrong. You're just like the religious bunch. Regardless of how much information is presented showing you are wrong, you just fall back on the old, "That's what I believe so it right, so fuck off" mantra. Fine, go live in your little world of denial.God Save the Queen wrote:
and I still say fuck your links. My personal experience far outweighs your google search. Believe what you want.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Whatever you say mister know it all.God Save the Queen wrote:
yes it is. fuck your articles. I was an atheist soldier. Ive known plenty of other atheist soldiers. get out of your internet world.Her fight against proselytizing is taking place in Colorado Springs - control central for the most radical elements of the Christian Right. James "tolerance is a homosexual plot" Dobson's Focus on the Family is based there - a concern so large that there is no need to use a street address on a letter. Also nearby is the Officers' Christian Fellowship, an organization whose express purpose is to create "ambassadors for Christ in uniform." Its slogan is: "Christian Officers Exercising Biblical Leadership to Raise up a Godly Military." (That's funny, the Taliban say something very similar.)
There is significant cross-pollination between the local evangelical groups and the Academy, to a point where cadets are reportedly cajoled, harangued and even bullied into being "saved."
Mikey Weinstein, an attorney in Albuquerque, N.M., has been collecting complaints of this nature for more than a year and says he has about 150 of them. Weinstein is a graduate of the Academy, as is his elder son. But when his youngest son, who is a member of the class of 2007, was called a "f--- Jew" and taunted as a Christ killer, Weinstein got involved.
"The Air Force Academy is suffering from a constitutional disease," Weinstein said. "They are trying to tell people whose God is best." He said his complaints have received little more than lip-service.
"I love and cherish the Academy," he said, "but it's been overtaken by the evangelical right."
Morton, a 48-year-old Lutheran minister, has seen this up close over the past 2 1/2 years. She says the academy is sending cadets the message that adopting Christian conservative evangelical values is key to their success at the school.
"There's nothing wrong with people reaching out to cadets," Morton said. "But when the purpose is to proselytize and make the military into a godly force, then that's inappropriate."For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure.
That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.
Frank Bussey, director of Military Ministry at Fort Jackson, has been telling soldiers at Fort Jackson that "government authorities, police and the military = God's Ministers,"
Bussey's teachings from the "God's Basic Training" Bible study guide he authored says US troops have "two primary responsibilities": "to praise those who do right" and "to punish those who do evil - "God's servant, an angel of wrath." Bussey's teachings directed at Fort Jackson soldiers were housed on the Military Ministry at Fort Jackson web site. Late Wednesday, the web site was taken down without explanation. Bussey did not return calls for comment. The web site text, however, can still be viewed in an archived format.
The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.Religion in the military has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years, especially because the close confines of military life often put two larger societal trends — the rise of evangelicals and the rise of people of no organized faith — onto a collision course.
At the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., nine midshipmen recently asked the American Civil Liberties Union to petition the school to abolish daily prayer at weekday lunch, where attendance is mandatory. The midshipmen and the A.C.L.U. assert that the practice is unconstitutional, based in large part on a 2004 appellate court ruling against a similar prayer at the Virginia Military Institute. The civil liberties group has threatened legal action if the policy is not changed.
But the academy is not persuaded.
“The academy does not intend to change its practice of offering midshipmen an opportunity for prayer or devotional thought during noon meal announcements,” Cmdr. Ed Austin, an academy spokesman, said in an e-mail message.
In interviews at West Point, seven cadets, two officers and a former chaplain said that religion, especially evangelical Christianity, was a constant at the academy. They said that until recently, cadets who did not attend religious services during basic training were sometimes referred to as “heathens.” They said mandatory banquets begin with prayer, including a reading from the Bible at a recent gala.A private missionary group has assigned a pair of full-time Christian ministers to the U.S. Air Force Academy, where they are training cadets to evangelize among their peers, according to a confidential letter to supporters.
The letter makes clear that the organized evangelization effort has continued this year despite an outcry over alleged proselytizing at the academy that has prompted a Pentagon investigation, congressional hearings, a civil lawsuit and new Air Force guidelines on religion.
"Praise God that we have been allowed access by the Academy into the cadet areas to minister among the cadets. We have recently been given an unused classroom to meet with cadets at any time during the day," the husband-and-wife team of Darren and Gina Lindblom said in the Oct. 11 letter to their donors.
God Save the Queen wrote:
what a bullshit story. this soldier is a peice of shit.
proven wrong? all you did was post some words from the very same links I told you to go fuck yourself with in the first place. ask anyone here that has served in the military, see if they agree with you. douche.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Ahh yes, the last resorts of some one that knows they've been proven wrong. You're just like the religious bunch. Regardless of how much information is presented showing you are wrong, you just fall back on the old, "That's what I believe so it right, so fuck off" mantra. Fine, go live in your little world of denial.God Save the Queen wrote:
and I still say fuck your links. My personal experience far outweighs your google search. Believe what you want.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Whatever you say mister know it all.God Save the Queen wrote:
yes it is. fuck your articles. I was an atheist soldier. Ive known plenty of other atheist soldiers. get out of your internet world.Her fight against proselytizing is taking place in Colorado Springs - control central for the most radical elements of the Christian Right. James "tolerance is a homosexual plot" Dobson's Focus on the Family is based there - a concern so large that there is no need to use a street address on a letter. Also nearby is the Officers' Christian Fellowship, an organization whose express purpose is to create "ambassadors for Christ in uniform." Its slogan is: "Christian Officers Exercising Biblical Leadership to Raise up a Godly Military." (That's funny, the Taliban say something very similar.)
There is significant cross-pollination between the local evangelical groups and the Academy, to a point where cadets are reportedly cajoled, harangued and even bullied into being "saved."
Mikey Weinstein, an attorney in Albuquerque, N.M., has been collecting complaints of this nature for more than a year and says he has about 150 of them. Weinstein is a graduate of the Academy, as is his elder son. But when his youngest son, who is a member of the class of 2007, was called a "f--- Jew" and taunted as a Christ killer, Weinstein got involved.
"The Air Force Academy is suffering from a constitutional disease," Weinstein said. "They are trying to tell people whose God is best." He said his complaints have received little more than lip-service.
"I love and cherish the Academy," he said, "but it's been overtaken by the evangelical right."
Morton, a 48-year-old Lutheran minister, has seen this up close over the past 2 1/2 years. She says the academy is sending cadets the message that adopting Christian conservative evangelical values is key to their success at the school.
"There's nothing wrong with people reaching out to cadets," Morton said. "But when the purpose is to proselytize and make the military into a godly force, then that's inappropriate."For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure.
That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.
Frank Bussey, director of Military Ministry at Fort Jackson, has been telling soldiers at Fort Jackson that "government authorities, police and the military = God's Ministers,"
Bussey's teachings from the "God's Basic Training" Bible study guide he authored says US troops have "two primary responsibilities": "to praise those who do right" and "to punish those who do evil - "God's servant, an angel of wrath." Bussey's teachings directed at Fort Jackson soldiers were housed on the Military Ministry at Fort Jackson web site. Late Wednesday, the web site was taken down without explanation. Bussey did not return calls for comment. The web site text, however, can still be viewed in an archived format.
The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.
Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-07-10 07:58:53)
Uhhh, yeah. I have several friends that did time in the military, but this is a recent problem. I have one friend that did a tour in Iraq 1, and is now back doing another tour. He's already indicated that it is different than when he was in the first time.proven wrong? all you did was post some words from the very same links I told you to go fuck yourself with in the first place. ask anyone here that has served in the military, see if they agree with you. douche.
And when you get top military brass and Congress getting involved, it isn't a little problem that just doesn't exist. Simply because you never experienced it doesn't mean it isn't happening, and isn't a problem.
Just because you've never been mugged doesn't mean there aren't muggers out there, and that there isn't a crime problem.
Wake the fuck up you little twit.
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.Article wrote:
"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.
You agree that he should have been able to pray with troops or that he had the right not to?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.Article wrote:
"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.
hey asshole. do you really expect to have me believe that the enivronment that I was immersed in during my active duty time was an illusion? that you are showing me the truth of shit that Ive never witnessed in the 7 years ive spent in uniform? are you serious. I mean, honestly, are you really expecting to "prove" me wrong.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Uhhh, yeah. I have several friends that did time in the military, but this is a recent problem. I have one friend that did a tour in Iraq 1, and is now back doing another tour. He's already indicated that it is different than when he was in the first time.proven wrong? all you did was post some words from the very same links I told you to go fuck yourself with in the first place. ask anyone here that has served in the military, see if they agree with you. douche.
And when you get top military brass and Congress getting involved, it isn't a little problem that just doesn't exist. Simply because you never experienced it doesn't mean it isn't happening, and isn't a problem.
Just because you've never been mugged doesn't mean there aren't muggers out there, and that there isn't a crime problem.
Wake the fuck up you little twit.
that mugging analogy is joke
internet people, Im telling you...
Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-07-10 08:10:28)
If that really did happen, then that's the stupidest dumbest reason to conclude that a guy wouldn't be a good leader. And that can apply to a leader in anything, not just a squad in the military or whatever.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.Article wrote:
"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.
I'm now talking generally, in anything now (football team, military, office, whatever)
If people can't be lead (or refuse) by someone who has different religious beliefs to themselves, then said people are simply not even worth leading.
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-07-10 08:17:06)
now I know how you brits feel with all those "islam is taking over" threads.
Halle-FUCKING-jeuah!God Save the Queen wrote:
now I know how you brits feel with all those "islam is taking over" threads.
I just don't understand how people can be serious when they insist of believing random Internet sources over personal experience. It just does NOT compare.
Last edited by m3thod (2008-07-10 08:25:12)
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Ive seen a full bird colonel in an Army difac wearing a turbin with his rank on it and a long beard. He was a Sikh chaplain.
He should have been able to pray with his troops. Somehow I manage to do it every night at dinner to please my mother, and my dad forces me to lead prayers at holiday gatherings, when I've been to church less than ten times in my life and everyone in my family but my mom is atheist.Braddock wrote:
You agree that he should have been able to pray with troops or that he had the right not to?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.Article wrote:
"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.
You have to have the respect of your inferiors, especially in life or death situations. They don't have to like you, but they have to respect you. If I was religious and in a combat situation, I would be pretty put off if my CO was so blatantly atheist to the point he refused to pray with me. It wouldn't exactly inspire confidence.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
If that really did happen, then that's the stupidest dumbest reason to conclude that a guy wouldn't be a good leader. And that can apply to a leader in anything, not just a squad in the military or whatever.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.Article wrote:
"I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.
I'm now talking generally, in anything now (football team, military, office, whatever)
If people can't be lead (or refuse) by someone who has different religious beliefs to themselves, then said people are simply not even worth leading.
Well, if we take the position that believers look down there noses at atheists (as it is taught to them from a young age that faith is a virtue) then one could make tha argument that in a position of authority, there would be descension, and his troops would effectivly think fuck you heritic :\Mek-Stizzle wrote:
If people can't be lead (or refuse) by someone who has different religious beliefs to themselves, then said people are simply not even worth leading.
Martyn
I see your point, but it's still silly to base everything on the fact that he wouldn't pray with you. That really doesn't have much to do with anything, it's not really a valid reason to disrespect someone. If anything, it should make people respect him more if he stands up for what he believes in. Well, in my eyes at least.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
You have to have the respect of your inferiors, especially in life or death situations. They don't have to like you, but they have to respect you. If I was religious and in a combat situation, I would be pretty put off if my CO was so blatantly atheist to the point he refused to pray with me. It wouldn't exactly inspire confidence.
If I was a Christian, I'd rather have someone outright deny that he belongs to said religion than falsely follow the religion and not believe in it (and thus, pray with everyone even though he isn't really praying). The latter is worse, you're lying (and simply acting), how can you trust a liar.
I guess it works both ways.
And that would be their personal problem, which brings me back around to saying that these people aren't really worth leading if they're gonna be like thatBell wrote:
Well, if we take the position that believers look down there noses at atheists (as it is taught to them from a young age that faith is a virtue) then one could make tha argument that in a position of authority, there would be descension, and his troops would effectivly think fuck you heritic :\Mek-Stizzle wrote:
If people can't be lead (or refuse) by someone who has different religious beliefs to themselves, then said people are simply not even worth leading.
Martyn
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-07-10 08:42:14)
In peacetime, I more than agree. If people are shooting at me, I think I would rather have him show some respect to my religion. I don't know very many religions that don't like you praying with them, even if you aren't a member.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I see your point, but it's still silly to base everything on the fact that he wouldn't pray with you. That really doesn't have much to do with anything, it's not really a valid reason to disrespect someone. If anything, it should make people respect him more if he stands up for what he believes in. Well, in my eyes at least.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
You have to have the respect of your inferiors, especially in life or death situations. They don't have to like you, but they have to respect you. If I was religious and in a combat situation, I would be pretty put off if my CO was so blatantly atheist to the point he refused to pray with me. It wouldn't exactly inspire confidence.
If I was a Christian, I'd rather have someone outright deny that he belongs to said religion than falsely follow the religion and not believe in it (and thus, pray with everyone even though he isn't really praying). The latter is worse, you're lying (and simply acting), how can you trust a liar.
I guess it works both ways.
What God do they pray to?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
He should have been able to pray with his troops. Somehow I manage to do it every night at dinner to please my mother, and my dad forces me to lead prayers at holiday gatherings, when I've been to church less than ten times in my life and everyone in my family but my mom is atheist.Braddock wrote:
You agree that he should have been able to pray with troops or that he had the right not to?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That I agree with. The rest is bullshit.
I'm sorry but if Church and State shouldn't mix (and I believe they shouldn't) then Church and military should definitely not mix. I can't believe they'd even make allowance for such a thing...what next, five prayer breaks a day for Muslim soldiers? If this story is true it's an example of the kind of appeasement lowing would usually scream blue murder over.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-10 08:48:24)
yes.Braddock wrote:
prayer breaks for Muslim soldiers?
there are no atheists in a foxhole... as the saying goes... This soldier was formerly religious then after being in Iraq and probably seeing some bad shit... stopped believing in religion... He may be paranoid and interpret things people have said to him incorrectly... Like the thin girl who thinks shes fat... no matter what you say, like....you like great... she hears... you look great for a fat pig....
Love is the answer
I could honestly tell you that that is not true[TUF]Catbox wrote:
there are no atheists in a foxhole
All Christian, mostly Baptist.Braddock wrote:
What God do they pray to?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
He should have been able to pray with his troops. Somehow I manage to do it every night at dinner to please my mother, and my dad forces me to lead prayers at holiday gatherings, when I've been to church less than ten times in my life and everyone in my family but my mom is atheist.Braddock wrote:
You agree that he should have been able to pray with troops or that he had the right not to?
I'm sorry but if Church and State shouldn't mix (and I believe they shouldn't) then Church and military should definitely not mix. I can't believe they'd even make allowance for such a thing...what next, five prayer breaks a day for Muslim soldiers? If this story is true it's an example of the kind of appeasement lowing would usually scream blue murder over.
See I think this particular part of the article has nothing to do with religion. It doesn't matter why he is not deemed a good leader, the fact is he is not a good leader. When I have to say prayers, it is not a religious matter, it is about respecting and obeying my parents. It wouldn't be fair to put him in command of troops that don't respect him, both for the troops and for himself.
Point is it isnt a personal problem, its a detrimental affect on the unit. If you have a commanding officer in a situation where the troops dislike him on such a level, this is more likely going to have a negative impact on there ability to work together (while keeping order).Mek-Stizzle wrote:
And that would be their personal problem, which brings me back around to saying that these people aren't really worth leading if they're gonna be like that
Better example was in the republican debate. Long story short a retired General of the military came out as being a homosexual and his question was on how that shouldnt be an issue today. The candidates responce was not so much on how they didnt agree with his life style choice (since they are fairly religious) but it was specific on unit cohesion and the ''bad'' affect having a gay would have.
I would argue it's the same argument here. Unit cohesion.
Martyn
Is it? Sounds to me that it's more like being a hypocrite, praying while you don't believe. Or pretending to pray. Would it hurt to tell your parents that you don't want to do that? No doubt it would, had the same experience when I stopped going to church.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
All Christian, mostly Baptist.
See I think this particular part of the article has nothing to do with religion. It doesn't matter why he is not deemed a good leader, the fact is he is not a good leader. When I have to say prayers, it is not a religious matter, it is about respecting and obeying my parents. It wouldn't be fair to put him in command of troops that don't respect him, both for the troops and for himself.
There was some gnashing of teeth and all that, but in the end it was accepted. Seems to me, you still live a lie.
And to be perfectly honest, I'd prefer to have a leader that is honest and speaks his mind even if it hurts, than someone that pretends just to avoid trouble, or god forbid, advance faster...
You think I haven't told them I don't want to do it?Sorcerer0513 wrote:
Is it? Sounds to me that it's more like being a hypocrite, praying while you don't believe. Or pretending to pray. Would it hurt to tell your parents that you don't want to do that? No doubt it would, had the same experience when I stopped going to church.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
All Christian, mostly Baptist.
See I think this particular part of the article has nothing to do with religion. It doesn't matter why he is not deemed a good leader, the fact is he is not a good leader. When I have to say prayers, it is not a religious matter, it is about respecting and obeying my parents. It wouldn't be fair to put him in command of troops that don't respect him, both for the troops and for himself.
There was some gnashing of teeth and all that, but in the end it was accepted. Seems to me, you still live a lie.
And to be perfectly honest, I'd prefer to have a leader that is honest and speaks his mind even if it hurts, than someone that pretends just to avoid trouble, or god forbid, advance faster...
It's rather ironic, but I don't believe the quote in my sig is applicable when quite literally lives are at stake. Group cohesion and therefore survivability are number one, politics second.