ATG
Banned
+5,233|6950|Global Command
We, as citizens of the world have failed. How could us homeowners have let this happen?

It was brought about by the astonishing short-sightedness of central bankers and politicians in Britain and the US who kept interest rates artificially low for more than a decade. A huge inverted pyramid of credit was built on top of the expectation of yields from British and US mortgages. Believing that house prices would rise for ever, and that even if they faltered the Bank of England would cut interest rates to reinflate the bubble, the banks began to lose any sense of financial risk, and started to relax credit standards and lend irresponsibly. Private-equity firms were allowed to borrow huge multiples of their real assets. Banks started to hide their lending in off-balance-sheet devices such as structured investment vehicles.

As house prices fall, this all turns into reverse. Loans de-leverage, derivatives degrade, margin calls are missed.
I should have not allowed the median home price in my area to be $550000 when the median income is $50000.

Oh, and the mental midget in my other thread who was saying we have a mental recession?

Gramm’s role in the swift and dramatic recent restructuring of the nation’s investment houses and practices didn’t stop there.

A year after the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act repealed the old regulations, Swiss Bank UBS gobbled up brokerage house Paine Weber. Two years later, Gramm settled in as a vice chairman of UBS’s new investment banking arm.

Later, he became a major player in its government affairs operation. According to federal lobbying disclosure records, Gramm lobbied Congress, the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department about banking and mortgage issues in 2005 and 2006.

During those years, the mortgage industry pressed Congress to roll back strong state rules that sought to stem the rise of predatory tactics used by lenders and brokers to place homeowners in high-cost mortgages.

For his work, Gramm and two other lobbyists collected $750,000 in fees from UBS’s American subsidiary. In the past year, UBS has written down more then $18 billion in exposure to subprime loans and other risky securities and is considering cutting as many as 8,000 jobs.
It seems like Gramm is standing outside of the chicken coop, blood and feathers are on his muzzle and he says; " hey, if you didn't lock those chickens in there I wouldn't have eaten them. Take personal responsibility boy. "

I think we should all feel a little shame that we have not let our politicians and oil companies build a new refinery for 29 years. We are all directly responsible for the sky rocketing costs of gas, because...well...I'm not sure any more.
I just know that there are many flag wavers shouting the mantra " supply and demand " and " personal responsibility " while everything goes to hell.

Keep waving that flag.

https://i37.tinypic.com/3466ewz.jpg
13rin
Member
+977|6900
We can fix the no refineries part and drilling, within a few years time we could have $2 gas.  There is a bill in committe that would do that.  It is being held up by the one digit percenters.  The enviros have the Dems but the short ones.  Don't get me wrong, there is a time for hybrid, but we ain't close enough yet to make it feesable and truly cost efficient.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-07-11 06:13:33)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA
I'm sorry, tell me who forced you to buy a home at a low ( artifically low) mortage rate? I am in a fixed rate with not a give a fuck in the world. Is my home worth as much now, probably not,( but this shit runs in cycles, always has) will I loose it Nope, ya know why....BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT...


We will catch the bastard that obviously forged your signature on your closing paperwork......Where were you when they did that by the way?

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-11 07:11:50)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6950|Global Command

lowing wrote:

I'm sorry, tell me who forced you to buy a home at a low ( artifically low) mortage rate? I am in a fixed rate with not a give a fuck in the world. Is my home worth as much now, probably not,( but this shit runs in cycles, always has) will I loose it Nope, ya know why....BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT...


We will catch the bastard that obviously forged your signature on your closing paperwork......Where were you when they did that by the way?
I'll answer you if you answer me;

Where do you draw your salary from? Company or government?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

ATG wrote:

lowing wrote:

I'm sorry, tell me who forced you to buy a home at a low ( artifically low) mortage rate? I am in a fixed rate with not a give a fuck in the world. Is my home worth as much now, probably not,( but this shit runs in cycles, always has) will I loose it Nope, ya know why....BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT...


We will catch the bastard that obviously forged your signature on your closing paperwork......Where were you when they did that by the way?
I'll answer you if you answer me;

Where do you draw your salary from? Company or government?
Honestly? Company........I have not been paid by the govt. since I left the USAF in 1989
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA
Now, I am sorry for those who are loosing their homes, but I should not be forced to bail out anyone. I am not responsible for your decisions or your mortgage...You get bailed out for your irresponsibility, yet, I am rewarded by paying yours and MINE....Yeah that is fair.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6950|Global Command

lowing wrote:

ATG wrote:

lowing wrote:

I'm sorry, tell me who forced you to buy a home at a low ( artifically low) mortage rate? I am in a fixed rate with not a give a fuck in the world. Is my home worth as much now, probably not,( but this shit runs in cycles, always has) will I loose it Nope, ya know why....BECAUSE I CAN AFFORD IT...


We will catch the bastard that obviously forged your signature on your closing paperwork......Where were you when they did that by the way?
I'll answer you if you answer me;

Where do you draw your salary from? Company or government?
Honestly? Company........I have not been paid by the govt. since I left the USAF in 1989
I signed a fix loan. Fixed at a higher rate than made good sense, but the only loan I could get, even with excellent credit.

" It is human nature to assume favorable wind blow forever. "

I gambled on equity and I lost. I had no problem making my payments and property taxes until our revenues tanked 80%.

The only thing that keeps me from cracking up is that fact that all my peers and everybody I know trying to run a business is either suffering or ruined. Most of the people I know are either late on their mortgage, or have already been in foreclosure or are now worried about it.

Workers comp in California is...yet another gouging scam. You wouldn't believe what they are trying to make me do.


If I had only ran my business like an illegal alien. General liability insurance, auto insurance, workers comp, taxes...I've been legit in every way up until last year.


How is this an issue of personal responsibility?

I'm not asking for a government bailout. I am asking for the government and the insurance and the gas companies to take it out or at least lube me up if their going to continue this ass rape.
topal63
. . .
+533|7139

ATG wrote:

... my peers and everybody I know trying to run a business is either suffering or ruined. Most of the people I know are either late on their mortgage, or have already been in foreclosure or are now worried about it.
That's the sad truth of it.

I was lucky because I am fiscally ultra-conservative. My business partner is almost ruined, I don't know if he'll make it through this.

Here's a fun fact, last month I had to pay (into the red) to have the right to work for my clients. My required else no pay/play, errors and omissions & liability insurances went up, and with revenue being down way down, I lost money simply due to insurance costs. They previously amounted to about 1-3% of my annual sales - now it's 10-15%. The fun never ends!!!
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6950|Global Command

topal63 wrote:

ATG wrote:

... my peers and everybody I know trying to run a business is either suffering or ruined. Most of the people I know are either late on their mortgage, or have already been in foreclosure or are now worried about it.
That's the sad truth of it.

I was lucky because I am fiscally ultra-conservative. My business partner is almost ruined, I don't know if he'll make it through this.

Here's a fun fact, last month I had to pay (into the red) to have the right to work for my clients. My required else no pay/play, errors and omissions & liability insurances went up, and with revenue being down way down, I lost money simply due to insurance costs. They previously amounted to about 1-3% of my annual sales - now it's 10-15%. The fun never ends!!!
Bust out da party hats!
I'm in the middle of a workerscomp audit. They cancelled me because I couldn't squeeze the 8k in ' un paid premiums '.
Which led to my contractors license being suspended.

In trying to catch up on this audit stuff, my gas cards are shut off. I have the 8 k now, but am struggling with the issue of surrender.

I have a job offer. Ten years of hard work, stress and agony and joy. It's a hard decision.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland
complaining about low interest rates is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

The US should outlaw charging an interest rate over 2% for ANYTHING.  We are robbed by the central bank and raped by our local banks.  The whole fucking system is scarey.  When a bank can make more money collecting interest on a home loan for 3 years than the home builder made in profit building it and in 10 years can collect more in interest than the house cost to build you know the system is fucked up.

look around, for damn near every house on your block the bank is collecting $1000+ a month in interest.  wtf did the bank do?  The signed papers.  What risk did the bank take? None cuz they own the homes until paid in full and are collecting hundreds a month in interest.    Where does this money all go?   Use your fucking head, we work and work to pay debt in the form of interest and own nothing.  Look at what you actually OWN in this world and how long you have been working, now look around at what the BANKS own and also get to collect monthly Interest on........

it is truely scarey, we work not to own but to be owned by the powers that be that sit back and collect from our labors.  Death to the central bank and to those that profit by this evil system.  They run our governments and control our existance.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

ATG wrote:

lowing wrote:

ATG wrote:


I'll answer you if you answer me;

Where do you draw your salary from? Company or government?
Honestly? Company........I have not been paid by the govt. since I left the USAF in 1989
I signed a fix loan. Fixed at a higher rate than made good sense, but the only loan I could get, even with excellent credit.

" It is human nature to assume favorable wind blow forever. "

I gambled on equity and I lost. I had no problem making my payments and property taxes until our revenues tanked 80%.

The only thing that keeps me from cracking up is that fact that all my peers and everybody I know trying to run a business is either suffering or ruined. Most of the people I know are either late on their mortgage, or have already been in foreclosure or are now worried about it.

Workers comp in California is...yet another gouging scam. You wouldn't believe what they are trying to make me do.


If I had only ran my business like an illegal alien. General liability insurance, auto insurance, workers comp, taxes...I've been legit in every way up until last year.


How is this an issue of personal responsibility?

I'm not asking for a government bailout. I am asking for the government and the insurance and the gas companies to take it out or at least lube me up if their going to continue this ass rape.
So, you are loosing business and therefore income that is hurting you. I was under the impression that you were one of those sub-prime mortgage folks. My mis-understanding....Of course if my income tanked I would be facing the same situation ATG.....I am sorry for being so presumptuous.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

complaining about low interest rates is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

The US should outlaw charging an interest rate over 2% for ANYTHING.  We are robbed by the central bank and raped by our local banks.  The whole fucking system is scarey.  When a bank can make more money collecting interest on a home loan for 3 years than the home builder made in profit building it and in 10 years can collect more in interest than the house cost to build you know the system is fucked up.

look around, for damn near every house on your block the bank is collecting $1000+ a month in interest.  wtf did the bank do?  The signed papers.  What risk did the bank take? None cuz they own the homes until paid in full and are collecting hundreds a month in interest.    Where does this money all go?   Use your fucking head, we work and work to pay debt in the form of interest and own nothing.  Look at what you actually OWN in this world and how long you have been working, now look around at what the BANKS own and also get to collect monthly Interest on........

it is truely scarey, we work not to own but to be owned by the powers that be that sit back and collect from our labors.  Death to the central bank and to those that profit by this evil system.  They run our governments and control our existance.
The problem isn't banks being allowed to charge high interest rates, the problem is American consumers, you know the instant gratification crowd, can't wait until they can afford anything with cash so we CHARGE all of our luxuries. When was the last time, if ever, so saw anyone pay cash at the register for a 600.00 Xbox and accessories?

If we as consumers would cut up the fuckin' plastic, we wouldn't be in debt....
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

complaining about low interest rates is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

The US should outlaw charging an interest rate over 2% for ANYTHING.  We are robbed by the central bank and raped by our local banks.  The whole fucking system is scarey.  When a bank can make more money collecting interest on a home loan for 3 years than the home builder made in profit building it and in 10 years can collect more in interest than the house cost to build you know the system is fucked up.

look around, for damn near every house on your block the bank is collecting $1000+ a month in interest.  wtf did the bank do?  The signed papers.  What risk did the bank take? None cuz they own the homes until paid in full and are collecting hundreds a month in interest.    Where does this money all go?   Use your fucking head, we work and work to pay debt in the form of interest and own nothing.  Look at what you actually OWN in this world and how long you have been working, now look around at what the BANKS own and also get to collect monthly Interest on........

it is truely scarey, we work not to own but to be owned by the powers that be that sit back and collect from our labors.  Death to the central bank and to those that profit by this evil system.  They run our governments and control our existance.
The problem isn't banks being allowed to charge high interest rates, the problem is American consumers, you know the instant gratification crowd, can't wait until they can afford anything with cash so we CHARGE all of our luxuries. When was the last time, if ever, so saw anyone pay cash at the register for a 600.00 Xbox and accessories?

If we as consumers would cut up the fuckin' plastic, we wouldn't be in debt....
A starter home in my area is still over $145000.  You pay rent and save up to buy that.  Most people need a car to get too work as soon as they get a job, $3000+.  I am not discounting what you say, but when people go in debt for $450K on a $150K purchase and spend 30+ years paying off the $450K there is a problem.   The bank just took $300K of your money after taxes for doing NOTHING.  this bothers me.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

complaining about low interest rates is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of.

The US should outlaw charging an interest rate over 2% for ANYTHING.  We are robbed by the central bank and raped by our local banks.  The whole fucking system is scarey.  When a bank can make more money collecting interest on a home loan for 3 years than the home builder made in profit building it and in 10 years can collect more in interest than the house cost to build you know the system is fucked up.

look around, for damn near every house on your block the bank is collecting $1000+ a month in interest.  wtf did the bank do?  The signed papers.  What risk did the bank take? None cuz they own the homes until paid in full and are collecting hundreds a month in interest.    Where does this money all go?   Use your fucking head, we work and work to pay debt in the form of interest and own nothing.  Look at what you actually OWN in this world and how long you have been working, now look around at what the BANKS own and also get to collect monthly Interest on........

it is truely scarey, we work not to own but to be owned by the powers that be that sit back and collect from our labors.  Death to the central bank and to those that profit by this evil system.  They run our governments and control our existance.
The problem isn't banks being allowed to charge high interest rates, the problem is American consumers, you know the instant gratification crowd, can't wait until they can afford anything with cash so we CHARGE all of our luxuries. When was the last time, if ever, so saw anyone pay cash at the register for a 600.00 Xbox and accessories?

If we as consumers would cut up the fuckin' plastic, we wouldn't be in debt....
A starter home in my area is still over $145000.  You pay rent and save up to buy that.  Most people need a car to get too work as soon as they get a job, $3000+.  I am not discounting what you say, but when people go in debt for $450K on a $150K purchase and spend 30+ years paying off the $450K there is a problem.   The bank just took $300K of your money after taxes for doing NOTHING.  this bothers me.
yeah, the problem is, if you did the math, you would find that it does not make economic sense to buy the home, and just stick with renting.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

lowing wrote:


The problem isn't banks being allowed to charge high interest rates, the problem is American consumers, you know the instant gratification crowd, can't wait until they can afford anything with cash so we CHARGE all of our luxuries. When was the last time, if ever, so saw anyone pay cash at the register for a 600.00 Xbox and accessories?

If we as consumers would cut up the fuckin' plastic, we wouldn't be in debt....
A starter home in my area is still over $145000.  You pay rent and save up to buy that.  Most people need a car to get too work as soon as they get a job, $3000+.  I am not discounting what you say, but when people go in debt for $450K on a $150K purchase and spend 30+ years paying off the $450K there is a problem.   The bank just took $300K of your money after taxes for doing NOTHING.  this bothers me.
yeah, the problem is, if you did the math, you would find that it does not make economic sense to buy the home, and just stick with renting.
No when you can deduct the interest of your taxes.  It came out that I was paying the same in rent as I was owning a house, thus building equity.  Unfortuately you can't move to a smaller home when things get tight and you also have more bills with ownership due to upkeep, utilities, water, .......  But my payment was fixed for 30 years vs rent going up.  I don't know, if I file bankruptcy who cares.  I can always live in Mexico illegally until my credit recovers.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:


A starter home in my area is still over $145000.  You pay rent and save up to buy that.  Most people need a car to get too work as soon as they get a job, $3000+.  I am not discounting what you say, but when people go in debt for $450K on a $150K purchase and spend 30+ years paying off the $450K there is a problem.   The bank just took $300K of your money after taxes for doing NOTHING.  this bothers me.
yeah, the problem is, if you did the math, you would find that it does not make economic sense to buy the home, and just stick with renting.
No when you can deduct the interest of your taxes.  It came out that I was paying the same in rent as I was owning a house, thus building equity.  Unfortuately you can't move to a smaller home when things get tight and you also have more bills with ownership due to upkeep, utilities, water, .......  But my payment was fixed for 30 years vs rent going up.  I don't know, if I file bankruptcy who cares.  I can always live in Mexico illegally until my credit recovers.
You are also free to walk away for a cheaper place when times get tough however, saving your credit and sleepless nights. For me it would be good since I have to move around alot now for work.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland
I am currently trying to transfer my job to a less expensive area in the US, sell my house, and live without the 60 mile commute each day.

If it works out I will be fine, if not my wife will have to get a job.  If I lose my job I will have to sell my two boys for medical experiments and move to mexico and bikini wax burros for a living. 

I just thank god that no matter what happens I will still not be Irish.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I am currently trying to transfer my job to a less expensive area in the US, sell my house, and live without the 60 mile commute each day.

If it works out I will be fine, if not my wife will have to get a job.  If I lose my job I will have to sell my two boys for medical experiments and move to mexico and bikini wax burros for a living. 

I just thank god that no matter what happens I will still not be Irish.
I am not one to hand out money advice believe me, however, it would seem logical to me if you were to rent your house out to those that are loosing theirs, and wait until the housing market recovers. This is what I am going to look into when I get back home. Hire a property manager to handle all of the bullshit.......

Anyone else shed some light on this prospect for both of us?
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I am currently trying to transfer my job to a less expensive area in the US, sell my house, and live without the 60 mile commute each day.

If it works out I will be fine, if not my wife will have to get a job.  If I lose my job I will have to sell my two boys for medical experiments and move to mexico and bikini wax burros for a living. 

I just thank god that no matter what happens I will still not be Irish.
I am not one to hand out money advice believe me, however, it would seem logical to me if you were to rent your house out to those that are loosing theirs, and wait until the housing market recovers. This is what I am going to look into when I get back home. Hire a property manager to handle all of the bullshit.......

Anyone else shed some light on this prospect for both of us?
I may do exactly this, but not sure how the rental market is so I would get the money out of it to cover the Mortgage.  It may be hard to pass up being able to sell it now for what I owe just to get back to debt free and not end up in a recession/depression with a repo and no job.

Tell me what the future holds and I will give you $50.
SealXo
Member
+309|6957

ATG wrote:

... my peers and everybody I know trying to run a business is either suffering or ruined. Most of the people I know are either late on their mortgage, or have already been in foreclosure or are now worried about it.
Just vote Obama for 7 paid sick days so your business can thrive further.
Great for the workers, but they won't have that job for long when there boss goes under.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA

Lotta_Drool wrote:

lowing wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I am currently trying to transfer my job to a less expensive area in the US, sell my house, and live without the 60 mile commute each day.

If it works out I will be fine, if not my wife will have to get a job.  If I lose my job I will have to sell my two boys for medical experiments and move to mexico and bikini wax burros for a living. 

I just thank god that no matter what happens I will still not be Irish.
I am not one to hand out money advice believe me, however, it would seem logical to me if you were to rent your house out to those that are loosing theirs, and wait until the housing market recovers. This is what I am going to look into when I get back home. Hire a property manager to handle all of the bullshit.......

Anyone else shed some light on this prospect for both of us?
I may do exactly this, but not sure how the rental market is so I would get the money out of it to cover the Mortgage.  It may be hard to pass up being able to sell it now for what I owe just to get back to debt free and not end up in a recession/depression with a repo and no job.

Tell me what the future holds and I will give you $50.
I can promise you if you do not let yourself fail............you will not.

I would think the rental market would be booming, since everyone is loosing their homes and needs a place to live.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7072|USA
Lotto, in 2005 I lost my job and almost my marriage, I was in debt up to my ass in a failed business. I was homeless and living on a friends couch.....I refused to succumb to this lifestyle.... I have since made a full recovery.
Freke1
I play at night... mostly
+47|6968|the best galaxy
These are tough times and I think they are going to get worse.

In these modern times many ppl are in dept.
We work hard for many years but struggle with bills every month.
I've always found that totally absurd. Or I'm doing something wrong?

When You buy anything on credit You're basically investing for borrowed money, which is something we should never do the stock advisors tells us.
So why do it with other stuff? But then who want to save up for many, many years before buying something?

I think the economy is allways reinforcing it's path. Kinda like stocks. I don't own a house and I would never buy a house for 300.000 $ that someone paid 100.000 $ for 10 years ago. Would You buy a used car for 30.000 $ that someone paid 10.000 $ for 10 years ago?

Gasoline prices are 3 times higher in Europe, but I don't think the oil price has peaked. The oil supple has peaked and the demand is rising every year.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/7d11696e2ffd4edeff06466095e98b0fab37462c.png

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