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2008-07-11 14:45:17
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6282
Veterans of the anti-apartheid struggle said last night that the restrictions endured by Palestinians in the Israeli-occupied territories was in some respects worse than that imposed on the black majority under white rule in South Africa.

Members of a 23-strong human-rights team of prominent South Africans cited the impact of the Israeli military's separation barrier, checkpoints, the permit system for Palestinian travel, and the extent to which Palestinians are barred from using roads in the West Bank.

After a five-day visit to Israel and the Occupied Territories, some delegates expressed shock and dismay at conditions in the Israeli-controlled heart of Hebron. Uniquely among West Bank cities, 800 settlers now live there and segregation has seen the closure of nearly 3,000 Palestinian businesses and housing units. Palestinian cars (and in some sections pedestrians) are prohibited from using the once busy streets.


source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 65063.html


full article available above.



now that ANC veterans have voiced there concern against the Israel, is Israel an apartheid regime????

discuss
2008-07-11 15:16:51
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6644|Escea

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
2008-07-11 15:24:23
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland
fuck the palestinians.
2008-07-11 15:26:33
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6282

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
2008-07-11 15:29:31
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6604|Ireland

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
Ahmanebanjomed from Iran disagrees.
2008-07-11 15:30:15
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6644|Escea

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
Ok, I'm sure the rockets would stop.

These groups want to get rid of Israel ENTIRELY, giving them back some land isn't going to change their ideas. They fire rockets whether or not the Israeli's attack a target. The fact they fire thsoe rockets from within civilian populated areas suggests they pretty much don't give a crap about what happens to their country.
2008-07-11 15:35:47
rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6282

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
Ok, I'm sure the rockets would stop.

These groups want to get rid of Israel ENTIRELY, giving them back some land isn't going to change their ideas. They fire rockets whether or not the Israeli's attack a target. The fact they fire thsoe rockets from within civilian populated areas suggests they pretty much don't give a crap about what happens to their country.
They hate Israel because of what Israel has and still is doing to them, if i was in their shoes i would be wanting to seek revenge ans some want Israel gone because since Israel has been established she's been nothing but trouble.

do you know how small the west bank/gaza is????

were else are they supposed to fire rockets???
2008-07-11 15:48:56
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6826|North Carolina
I actually would agree that there are many similarities between what Israel is doing to the Palestinians and what happened in South Africa.

On the other hand, what several people in other countries are doing to Israel makes it more understandable as to why the Israelis act as they do.  Hezbollah only makes it that much easier for Israel to justify its aggression.
2008-07-11 16:15:04
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6866|The Land of Scott Walker

rammunition wrote:

... Members of a 23-strong human-rights team ...
  Wow, they could almost overflow a bus.
2008-07-11 19:01:25
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6832|'Murka

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
Because the Palestinians have been able to restrain themselves after agreeing to a truce, right?

They are their own worst enemy. As long as they keep lobbing rockets into civilian areas, clearly either targeting civilians directly or indiscriminately, Israel will have justification for what they do. If they would stop the rockets and suicide bombings and instead focus their efforts on their own people and getting more of their plight out there in the media for the world to see, they would gain the upper hand in dealing with Israel.

But it's easier to lob rockets at civilians and blow up buses full of civilians instead...and then wonder why nobody feels sorry for them.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-07-11 21:38:46
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6248

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
And should the South African rebels have surrendered too?
2008-07-12 04:39:13
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6644|Escea

rammunition wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:


ask yourself why the rockets are being fired, end the occupation the rockets stop.



If Israel stop building ILLEGAL settlements, expanding its borders, return all occupied land, give the Palestinians a state with East Jerusalem as the capital and STOP THE OCCUPATION then there would be peace

If the Palestinians stop firing rockets/put there guns down the west bank/Gaza would be gone.
Ok, I'm sure the rockets would stop.

These groups want to get rid of Israel ENTIRELY, giving them back some land isn't going to change their ideas. They fire rockets whether or not the Israeli's attack a target. The fact they fire thsoe rockets from within civilian populated areas suggests they pretty much don't give a crap about what happens to their country.
They hate Israel because of what Israel has and still is doing to them, if i was in their shoes i would be wanting to seek revenge ans some want Israel gone because since Israel has been established she's been nothing but trouble.

do you know how small the west bank/gaza is????

were else are they supposed to fire rockets???
Why do they need to fire them in the first place?

ZombieVampire! wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
And should the South African rebels have surrendered too?
Yep

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2008-07-12 04:40:36)

2008-07-12 04:58:22
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6619
The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
2008-07-12 05:53:13
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6644|Escea

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
Are these the same proud pals who don't give a rats ass what happens to civies in their neighbourhoods? Or is drawing fire on a civilian area an accepted tactic these days to be proud of?
2008-07-12 05:56:35
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7042|London, England
Israel/Palestine. They're both as stupid as each other. Let them both die for all I care. The world would be better off if we just nuked "The Holy Land" and turned it into an inhospitable envioronment so everyone could just shut the fuck up about it once and for all.
2008-07-12 06:11:41
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6619

M.O.A.B wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
Are these the same proud pals who don't give a rats ass what happens to civies in their neighbourhoods? Or is drawing fire on a civilian area an accepted tactic these days to be proud of?
From where do you want them to fight?  Gaza is a civilian area.. millions of people live there.. There's no such place like a field where they can align their tanks (if they had any) and charge the israelis..   Hey we can say that israel lauch their attack from civilian area too ?  And the pals retaliate by sending rockets in civilian area..

Yes they are proud and they fight back..  if the roles were inverted and the israelis were living in gaza and the pals were occupying them, you bet that the israelis would just shut the f up and live like sheeps in a cage...  Just because you, your friend lotta_drool or the israelis are ready to accept anything just to stay alive doesnt mean that the rest of the world have to be spineless coward who bend over and accept to live under occupation and oppression.

The pals are resisting..  fighting against a modern and strong army (thanks to US money) with RPG, IED and AK-47.. they are fighting to free their people of the opression.. and for that, they will always have my support.
2008-07-12 06:46:24
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6248

M.O.A.B wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Less rockets fired = allowed to do more
And should the South African rebels have surrendered too?
Yep
And the American rebels?
2008-07-12 07:08:50
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6832|'Murka

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
It's not a matter of being brave or weak. It's a matter of having the brains to realize that what you are doing is futile at best, self-defeating at worst. Letting pride override what is best for your people and your cause fails. That's what Hamas is doing.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-07-12 07:18:18
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6619

FEOS wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
It's not a matter of being brave or weak. It's a matter of having the brains to realize that what you are doing is futile at best, self-defeating at worst. Letting pride override what is best for your people and your cause fails. That's what Hamas is doing.
Like the poster above you said, thank god your ancestor didnt think like you or you would still be a british colony.
2008-07-12 07:31:34
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6832|'Murka

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

FEOS wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
It's not a matter of being brave or weak. It's a matter of having the brains to realize that what you are doing is futile at best, self-defeating at worst. Letting pride override what is best for your people and your cause fails. That's what Hamas is doing.
Like the poster above you said, thank god your ancestor didnt think like you or you would still be a british colony.
Not at all similar. The Brits were fighting the Continental and French Armies. And it's not like the colonies were adjacent to GB, either. Oh, and the colonists weren't attacking British civilians instead of the British military...I guess that's a key difference, too.

Add in the total lack of instant world-wide media, the UN, and about a thousand and a half other things...and one can easily see that the two situations are entirely different.

You are confusing my criticism of their methods with a criticism of the overall cause. You are wrong.

I'm saying that if they want to further their cause (and, by extension stop furthering Israel's cause), they have to realize that they are only hurting themselves with their militant actions. Every rocket fired into civilian areas intentionally, every bombing of a civilian business or bus, just provides some measure of justification for Israel's actions in response. As long as they keep giving Israel any sort of justification, they will never get what they want because they cannot defeat Israel militarily...ever.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-07-12 07:46:30)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-07-12 07:34:01
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6764|tropical regions of london
'This is like propaganda'
2008-07-12 07:39:50
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6644|Escea

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The West Bank is peaceful but they still live under severe restrictions..

I see some of you are worst than the french.. some of you would surrender instantly and not fight back if foreigners occupied your land.

Not all people are weak..  The Proud Palestinian People are strong and will resist the occupation until the Israeli regime vanish from the pages of time like the White Majority did after the end of the apartheid in South Africa.
Are these the same proud pals who don't give a rats ass what happens to civies in their neighbourhoods? Or is drawing fire on a civilian area an accepted tactic these days to be proud of?
From where do you want them to fight?  Gaza is a civilian area.. millions of people live there.. There's no such place like a field where they can align their tanks (if they had any) and charge the israelis..   Hey we can say that israel lauch their attack from civilian area too ?  And the pals retaliate by sending rockets in civilian area..

Yes they are proud and they fight back..  if the roles were inverted and the israelis were living in gaza and the pals were occupying them, you bet that the israelis would just shut the f up and live like sheeps in a cage...  Just because you, your friend lotta_drool or the israelis are ready to accept anything just to stay alive doesnt mean that the rest of the world have to be spineless coward who bend over and accept to live under occupation and oppression.

The pals are resisting..  fighting against a modern and strong army (thanks to US money) with RPG, IED and AK-47.. they are fighting to free their people of the opression.. and for that, they will always have my support.
Fighting oppression by using suicide bombers on civilians eh? Nice tactic.
btw the Israelis launch attacks from actual military facilities, so if anything that should promt an attack on those bases, not civilian towns and populations.

Want to know the real reason why I don't support the pals? because all they do is bring it upon themselves and their populations by persistently firing rockets into Israel. I'd give their fighters a lot more respect if they fought without hiding amongst women and children, using children as suicide bombers or specifically targeting civilians in order to strike back at your enemy, that is true cowardice.
2008-07-12 07:56:12
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6619

FEOS wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

FEOS wrote:


It's not a matter of being brave or weak. It's a matter of having the brains to realize that what you are doing is futile at best, self-defeating at worst. Letting pride override what is best for your people and your cause fails. That's what Hamas is doing.
Like the poster above you said, thank god your ancestor didnt think like you or you would still be a british colony.
Not at all similar. The Brits were fighting the Continental and French Armies. And it's not like the colonies were adjacent to GB, either.

Add in the total lack of instant world-wide media, the UN, and about a thousand and a half other things...and one can easily see that the two situations are entirely different.

You are confusing my criticism of their methods with a criticism of the overall cause. You are wrong.

I'm saying that if they want to further their cause (and, by extension stop furthering Israel's cause), they have to realize that they are only hurting themselves with their militant actions. Every rocket fired into civilian areas intentionally, every bombing of a civilian business or bus, just provides some measure of justification for Israel's actions in response. As long as they keep giving Israel any sort of justification, they will never get what they want because they cannot defeat Israel militarily...ever.
Yes it's different, but the main objective is the same.. fight against the occupier. 

You do what you can with the mean that you have.  The pals cannot fight in an open field, they have no army.. it's a guerrila war.. Yes they are using suicide bombers but they also are using conventional attack like when they abducted gilad shalit (sp).

I'm trying to put myself in their shoes.. I try to imagine how i would react if my familiy was living under extreme conditions.. unable to travel freely in my own land..  unable to live a normal life because some people with an invincible army decided that my land was their promised land. That i would never be able to live peacefully as an equal human being with them because they think that they are god's chosen people.

In top of that, they would raid the little land that i have just to punish us because some of our people are fighting back. If they killed my family with a tank or a warplane..  omfg who knows what i would do to punish them
2008-07-12 07:58:46
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6248

FEOS wrote:

Not at all similar. The Brits were fighting the Continental and French Armies. And it's not like the colonies were adjacent to GB, either. Oh, and the colonists weren't attacking British civilians instead of the British military...I guess that's a key difference, too.
Problems:

1)  You hadn't secured French support before rebellion

2)  By your logic where the people are is irrelevant, it's just whether they can succeed

3)  See 2.
2008-07-12 08:00:42
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6764|tropical regions of london
actually there were attacks on American tories.

 

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