Tell me why the Ayatollah prevented all reformists from running for office right after a popular reformist president (Khatami) was up for re-election.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.Turquoise wrote:
McCain made a stupid remark, but Ahmadinejad is known for doing the same.
For the record, however, the average Iranian isn't anti-American. The Iranian government is though. Of course, if McCain decides to say much more along the lines of this, he may succeed in making the average Iranian anti-American.
let me go call him real fast...wait, Ill text him, probably get a better answer.
Read between the lines. After reformists were banned, then the people elected the most moderate candidates they had available.
The average Iranian is more liberal than most people in the Middle East. They still have a lot of social progress left to make, but they're actually a lot more moderate than the Ayatollah for example.
The average Iranian is more liberal than most people in the Middle East. They still have a lot of social progress left to make, but they're actually a lot more moderate than the Ayatollah for example.
I disagree and I think you are wrong. If the iranians were moderates, they wouldnt allow their constitution to give so much power to a religious scholar. I believe the moderates are in the minority.
The people are the only ones that could legitimize a government's power.
The people are the only ones that could legitimize a government's power.
You realize why the revolution happened, right? The religious Iranians got pissed off and ousted the Shah. While they did make up a lot of the population at the time, they weren't a solid majority. Soviet meddling helped Khomeini rise to power. In the years that followed, the people began to realize how powerhungry and autocratic Khomeini was, and this is why even the current Ayatollah is moderate compared to him. Whether the religious leaders like it or not, they've had to tone down their extremism over the years. The people have also begun to demand more rights.God Save the Queen wrote:
I disagree and I think you are wrong. If the iranians were moderates, they wouldnt allow their constitution to give so much power to a religious scholar. I believe the moderates are in the minority.
The people are the only ones that could legitimize a government's power.
The current situation is of religious ultraconservatives holding most of the high level non-elected power, but with relatively moderate people in elected offices (with the exception of Ahmadinejad, who will probably be replaced by a moderate in the next election).
yes. Id bet my knowledge of middle eastern history and politics has a bit greater depth than yours. no need for a history lessons. thanks.Turquoise wrote:
You realize why the revolution happened, right?God Save the Queen wrote:
I disagree and I think you are wrong. If the iranians were moderates, they wouldnt allow their constitution to give so much power to a religious scholar. I believe the moderates are in the minority.
The people are the only ones that could legitimize a government's power.
If that's true, then explain to me why you think the average Iranian is as conservative as Ahmadinejad?God Save the Queen wrote:
yes. Id bet my knowledge of middle eastern history and politics has a bit greater depth than yours. no need for a history lessons. thanks.Turquoise wrote:
You realize why the revolution happened, right?God Save the Queen wrote:
I disagree and I think you are wrong. If the iranians were moderates, they wouldnt allow their constitution to give so much power to a religious scholar. I believe the moderates are in the minority.
The people are the only ones that could legitimize a government's power.
did I even even use the word "conservative" once?
explain to me what your definition of "average iranian" is. Because I cant think of one.
explain to me what your definition of "average iranian" is. Because I cant think of one.
Pot. Kettle. Black.Reuters wrote:
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran has condemned U.S. Republican presidential candidate John McCain for joking about killing Iranians with cigarettes and said it showed his "warmongering" foreign policy attitude, media said on Sunday.
I was implying that the average Iranian leans in the reformist direction. You were saying that you didn't feel that way, or at least, that's what I've gathered from your posts.God Save the Queen wrote:
did I even even use the word "conservative" once?
explain to me what your definition of "average iranian" is. Because I cant think of one.
My impression of the average Iranian comes from who they've elected and how they live. They love American media and, compared to most of the countries around them, they're actually pretty Western for an Islamic country. They also have a cultural history more closely related to Europe than to the Arabs. Again, I think all of this adds up to a society less radical than say... Yemen. They're certainly less extremist than the average Saudi.
It really depends. A lot of the urban city dweller types bask in the Western-type culture of places like Tehran and want a more progressive society. A lot of people in more rural areas are reserved when talking about governement and demands from them.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.Turquoise wrote:
McCain made a stupid remark, but Ahmadinejad is known for doing the same.
For the record, however, the average Iranian isn't anti-American. The Iranian government is though. Of course, if McCain decides to say much more along the lines of this, he may succeed in making the average Iranian anti-American.
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
well that one way to go.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It really depends. A lot of the urban city dweller types bask in the Western-type culture of places like Tehran and want a more progressive society. A lot of people in more rural areas are reserved when talking about governement and demands from them.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.Turquoise wrote:
McCain made a stupid remark, but Ahmadinejad is known for doing the same.
For the record, however, the average Iranian isn't anti-American. The Iranian government is though. Of course, if McCain decides to say much more along the lines of this, he may succeed in making the average Iranian anti-American.
http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
but who controls the country? the moderate element in Iran is too insignificant for the time being to force any change from within.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It really depends. A lot of the urban city dweller types bask in the Western-type culture of places like Tehran and want a more progressive society. A lot of people in more rural areas are reserved when talking about governement and demands from them.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.Turquoise wrote:
McCain made a stupid remark, but Ahmadinejad is known for doing the same.
For the record, however, the average Iranian isn't anti-American. The Iranian government is though. Of course, if McCain decides to say much more along the lines of this, he may succeed in making the average Iranian anti-American.
http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
Iraq has a lot of moderates. Id say most Iraqis Ive met were moderate.
Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-07-13 12:37:45)
That's the point though. I'm against intervening in Iran, but.... I would also say that the autocratic nature of their government is why they are perceived as being extremist. They have extremists running the government.God Save the Queen wrote:
but who controls the country? the moderate element in Iran is too insignificant for the time being to force any change from within.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It really depends. A lot of the urban city dweller types bask in the Western-type culture of places like Tehran and want a more progressive society. A lot of people in more rural areas are reserved when talking about governement and demands from them.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.
http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
Iraq has a lot of moderates. Id say most Iraqis Ive met were moderate.
Theoretically, if we removed their government, they would likely become a more moderate country in the long run, but... I'm obviously still against doing that.
and I still say they said the same thing for Iraq.Turquoise wrote:
Theoretically, if we removed their government, they would likely become a more moderate country in the long run, but... I'm obviously still against doing that.
lots of moderate countries in the area we call the middle east. Egypt and Turkey and what was left of Lebanon not too long ago immediately come to mind.
Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-07-13 12:42:48)
I'm sure they did, but the problem with this argument is that they underestimated how conflicted Iraq is. The vast majority of Iranians are Persian Shia. Iraq is multicultural, so this is why occupation didn't work.God Save the Queen wrote:
and I still say they said the same thing for Iraq.Turquoise wrote:
Theoretically, if we removed their government, they would likely become a more moderate country in the long run, but... I'm obviously still against doing that.
youre talking about religious division, not culture.
I think change will come slowly but surely from within. It really depends on how the Iranian government interacts with their own people, and how much forward thinking Iranians push their governement for reform.God Save the Queen wrote:
but who controls the country? the moderate element in Iran is too insignificant for the time being to force any change from within.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It really depends. A lot of the urban city dweller types bask in the Western-type culture of places like Tehran and want a more progressive society. A lot of people in more rural areas are reserved when talking about governement and demands from them.God Save the Queen wrote:
thats the same thing they said about Iraq. Im hesitant to believe the "the people dont like the government" line.
http://i19.tinypic.com/4maf3aa.jpg
I believe the sign reads something to the effect of "we do not support the Fascist Ahmadinejad"
Iraq has a lot of moderates. Id say most Iraqis Ive met were moderate.
I see it as both. Iraqi Sunnis and Shiites might be similar in their culture, but Kurds are distinctly different from both of them. Besides, all it takes is a massive rift between two major religious groups or two major cultural groups to make unity very difficult under a new government -- especially a democratic one.God Save the Queen wrote:
youre talking about religious division, not culture.
I would argue that Iraq can never be stable until another dictator comes along or until the country is split up by culture/religion.
persian women are hot
until they reach 50God Save the Queen wrote:
persian women are hot
Depends if they have one or two eyebrows. I personally love the revealing sleazy burkhas they wear.God Save the Queen wrote:
persian women are hot
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-07-13 12:51:09)
Im not trying to mess around with 50 year old women unless they have money.
...i think all women of any race are prob minging once they hit 50.usmarine2 wrote:
until they reach 50God Save the Queen wrote:
persian women are hot
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Says the man who admitted to screwing a grandma.m3thod wrote:
...i think all women of any race are prob minging once they hit 50.usmarine2 wrote:
until they reach 50God Save the Queen wrote:
persian women are hot