Now I don't like Kevin Myers one bit, in fact I think he's a cunt. However, I'm just after reading his opinion column in the Irish Independent and I have to say that a lot of what he is saying makes a lot of sense. It's harsh, it's brutal but is it fair. Read his op-ed "Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS" here and tell me what you think - http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 30428.html
I skimmed it, but what caught my attention mostly matches my own views.
If there's anything we should be giving Africa, it's birth control.
If there's anything we should be giving Africa, it's birth control.
Qft on the birth control.Turquoise wrote:
I skimmed it, but what caught my attention mostly matches my own views.
If there's anything we should be giving Africa, it's birth control.
@Cam. Yeah he make sense..its harsh but true.
By Africa I'm sure he's talking about Sub-Saharan Africa. Have to agree with the article, especially the title.
A decidely one-sided look into the effects of food aid on the populations of some of the least developed regions of the world. I don't agree with much of what he says.
And literally tens of millions of people in Africa are also jeopardized because of "help" from the outside world. Surely some blame should rightly be placed on the backs of Africans, but what about the West? What about the idea of "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"? The idea of food aid is somewhat of a shallow gesture, and it isn't working, I agree. However, some of the blame rests solely on the Western world for continually dumping money into corrupt regimes for access to their national resources. Many multi-national companies are directly responsible for and insanely complicit to the atrocious actions carried out by those regimes. Where is his criticism of this besides as an afterthought in the last paragraphs?Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of sexually
hyperactive indigents, with tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside world.
Excellent points. Multinational corporations are certainly hurting Africa on a massive scale.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
However, some of the blame rests solely on the Western world for continually dumping money into corrupt regimes for access to their national resources. Many multi-national companies are directly responsible for and insanely complicit to the atrocious actions carried out by those regimes. Where is his criticism of this besides as an afterthought in the last paragraphs?
Still, the fact remains that the rapid reproduction of Africans isn't helping them either. AIDS spreads very quickly throughout that continent partially because of their sexual excesses.
I didn't know lowing wrote for the Independent.
But seriously Africa is a big shit sandwich and it's an interesting conundrum to ponder as a Westerner. One argument that might be made is similar to that of the African American population in relation to the manifold social problem Stateside - who knows what position they might be in if it weren't for the injustices foisted upon them by the exploitative Western world? But, as is my opinion in relation to the African American debate, while the past might be a contributing factor it is certainly not an excuse. The various African colonies have had many years out on their own now and they just can't seem to get their shit together. Each leader who comes to power only ever seems to think in the present tense and usually only in terms of their own personal gain. One thing the West does still carry the blame for however is its facilitating of some of these corrupt regimes.
What Africa needs most is serious improvement in education, especially regarding contraception and ridiculous superstition.
But seriously Africa is a big shit sandwich and it's an interesting conundrum to ponder as a Westerner. One argument that might be made is similar to that of the African American population in relation to the manifold social problem Stateside - who knows what position they might be in if it weren't for the injustices foisted upon them by the exploitative Western world? But, as is my opinion in relation to the African American debate, while the past might be a contributing factor it is certainly not an excuse. The various African colonies have had many years out on their own now and they just can't seem to get their shit together. Each leader who comes to power only ever seems to think in the present tense and usually only in terms of their own personal gain. One thing the West does still carry the blame for however is its facilitating of some of these corrupt regimes.
What Africa needs most is serious improvement in education, especially regarding contraception and ridiculous superstition.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-13 13:49:48)
Considering that the Atlantic slave trade was a direct result of the already present practice of tribes selling conquered peoples as slaves, I'd say Africa did a great job of fucking itself in the beginning. Of course, as you said, we didn't exactly improve their situation.Braddock wrote:
I didn't know lowing wrote for the Independent.
But seriously Africa is a big shit sandwich and it's an interesting conundrum to ponder as a Westerner. One argument that might be made is similar to that of the African American population in relation to the manifold social problem Stateside - who knows what position they might be in if it weren't for the injustices foisted upon them by the exploitative Western world? But, as is my opinion in relation to the African American debate, while the past might be a contributing factor it is certainly not an excuse. The various African colonies have had many years out on their own now and they just can't seem to get their shit together. Each leader who comes to power only ever seems to think in the present tense and usually only in terms of their own personal gain.
What Africa needs most is serious improvement in education, especially regarding contraception and ridiculous superstition.
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-07-13 13:51:29)
I basically said that about year ago on here and get yelled at. interesting.
Well that's one of the main problems in Africa still isn't it, tribal fighting, ethnic tension and so on?Turquoise wrote:
Considering that the Atlantic slave trade was a direct result of the already present practice of tribes selling conquered peoples as slaves, I'd say Africa did a great job of fucking itself in the beginning. Of course, as you said, we didn't exactly improve their situation.Braddock wrote:
I didn't know lowing wrote for the Independent.
But seriously Africa is a big shit sandwich and it's an interesting conundrum to ponder as a Westerner. One argument that might be made is similar to that of the African American population in relation to the manifold social problem Stateside - who knows what position they might be in if it weren't for the injustices foisted upon them by the exploitative Western world? But, as is my opinion in relation to the African American debate, while the past might be a contributing factor it is certainly not an excuse. The various African colonies have had many years out on their own now and they just can't seem to get their shit together. Each leader who comes to power only ever seems to think in the present tense and usually only in terms of their own personal gain.
What Africa needs most is serious improvement in education, especially regarding contraception and ridiculous superstition.
Very true... although I don't know how significant slave trading still is among them.
I loled.The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him.
Africans didn't come up with the idea of slaves, some just made it more accessible.Turquoise wrote:
Considering that the Atlantic slave trade was a direct result of the already present practice of tribes selling conquered peoples as slaves, I'd say Africa did a great job of fucking itself in the beginning. Of course, as you said, we didn't exactly improve their situation.
Population control isn't as easy as "give them contraceptives". Many people have many children because of the extra help they can provide - from an agricultural/subsistence living angle. Yes, a rising population is helping to destroy the region, but it seems disingenuous to simply place blame on the UN World Food Programme or even on Africans themselves for something that has far more factors then western help and African failure.
That's because you're a racist usmarine!usmarine2 wrote:
I basically said that about year ago on here and get yelled at. interesting.
thats fineBraddock wrote:
That's because you're a racist usmarine!usmarine2 wrote:
I basically said that about year ago on here and get yelled at. interesting.
Solid points, but... Would population control result from less foreign aid to places like Ethiopia? In other words, would nature take its course if we just... you know... let them starve? I know it's a pretty heartless and perhaps evil thing to ponder, but I almost wonder if allowing this to occur would ultimately spare potential future generations of them from suffering.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Africans didn't come up with the idea of slaves, some just made it more accessible.Turquoise wrote:
Considering that the Atlantic slave trade was a direct result of the already present practice of tribes selling conquered peoples as slaves, I'd say Africa did a great job of fucking itself in the beginning. Of course, as you said, we didn't exactly improve their situation.
Population control isn't as easy as "give them contraceptives". Many people have many children because of the extra help they can provide - from an agricultural/subsistence living angle. Yes, a rising population is helping to destroy the region, but it seems disingenuous to simply place blame on the UN World Food Programme or even on Africans themselves for something that has far more factors then western help and African failure.
Another thing to consider is how dangerous many of these people are to us if they immigrate here with any of the various diseases they might be carrying (AIDS included). Sometimes, the most practical approach is to keep them at a distance.
There was a story here not that long ago about this Nigerian fella who was an asylum seeker, got drunk and was speeding, got pulled by the police and then bit the cop on the head. Had to go for a blood test and everything because the guy was HIV positive.Turquoise wrote:
Solid points, but... Would population control result from less foreign aid to places like Ethiopia? In other words, would nature take its course if we just... you know... let them starve? I know it's a pretty heartless and perhaps evil thing to ponder, but I almost wonder if allowing this to occur would ultimately spare potential future generations of them from suffering.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Africans didn't come up with the idea of slaves, some just made it more accessible.Turquoise wrote:
Considering that the Atlantic slave trade was a direct result of the already present practice of tribes selling conquered peoples as slaves, I'd say Africa did a great job of fucking itself in the beginning. Of course, as you said, we didn't exactly improve their situation.
Population control isn't as easy as "give them contraceptives". Many people have many children because of the extra help they can provide - from an agricultural/subsistence living angle. Yes, a rising population is helping to destroy the region, but it seems disingenuous to simply place blame on the UN World Food Programme or even on Africans themselves for something that has far more factors then western help and African failure.
Another thing to consider is how dangerous many of these people are to us if they immigrate here with any of the various diseases they might be carrying (AIDS included). Sometimes, the most practical approach is to keep them at a distance.
He can't be racist. He's a black man.Braddock wrote:
That's because you're a racist usmarine!usmarine2 wrote:
I basically said that about year ago on here and get yelled at. interesting.
That's pretty crazy. Maybe you guys should be more selective about who you let in. I know we should be for sure.M.O.A.B wrote:
There was a story here not that long ago about this Nigerian fella who was an asylum seeker, got drunk and was speeding, got pulled by the police and then bit the cop on the head. Had to go for a blood test and everything because the guy was HIV positive.Turquoise wrote:
Solid points, but... Would population control result from less foreign aid to places like Ethiopia? In other words, would nature take its course if we just... you know... let them starve? I know it's a pretty heartless and perhaps evil thing to ponder, but I almost wonder if allowing this to occur would ultimately spare potential future generations of them from suffering.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Africans didn't come up with the idea of slaves, some just made it more accessible.
Population control isn't as easy as "give them contraceptives". Many people have many children because of the extra help they can provide - from an agricultural/subsistence living angle. Yes, a rising population is helping to destroy the region, but it seems disingenuous to simply place blame on the UN World Food Programme or even on Africans themselves for something that has far more factors then western help and African failure.
Another thing to consider is how dangerous many of these people are to us if they immigrate here with any of the various diseases they might be carrying (AIDS included). Sometimes, the most practical approach is to keep them at a distance.
Last edited by Turquoise (2008-07-13 14:11:10)
he's mexican
He's not strong enough to be a black guy.ATG wrote:
He can't be racist. He's a black man.Braddock wrote:
That's because you're a racist usmarine!usmarine2 wrote:
I basically said that about year ago on here and get yelled at. interesting.
When the UK gets down to who it allows in it sux big time. Let's far too many of the wrong types of people in, without checks and basically pays for their entire lifestyle.Turquoise wrote:
That's pretty crazy. Maybe you guys should be more selective about who you let in. I know we should be for sure.M.O.A.B wrote:
There was a story here not that long ago about this Nigerian fella who was an asylum seeker, got drunk and was speeding, got pulled by the police and then bit the cop on the head. Had to go for a blood test and everything because the guy was HIV positive.Turquoise wrote:
Solid points, but... Would population control result from less foreign aid to places like Ethiopia? In other words, would nature take its course if we just... you know... let them starve? I know it's a pretty heartless and perhaps evil thing to ponder, but I almost wonder if allowing this to occur would ultimately spare potential future generations of them from suffering.
Another thing to consider is how dangerous many of these people are to us if they immigrate here with any of the various diseases they might be carrying (AIDS included). Sometimes, the most practical approach is to keep them at a distance.
"Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting, khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts. Indeed, we now have almost an entire continent of sexually hyperactive indigents, with tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside world."ATG wrote:
I loled.The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes him.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-13 14:26:12)
He brings up ethiopia and he brings up somalia before he makes the "whole continent" claim.
pave it and turn it into a giant wind farm tbh. I mean that.