BF2S Forums UK: No firearms and crime rates are down

Pug wrote:

Parker wrote:

hey now, lets get off the whole knife bashing thing

Sounds like you need to open up a UK branch.

True parker could make a killing, literally

logitech487 wrote:

The Journal of Trauma (36:4 pp516-524) looked at all injury admissions to a Seattle hospital over a six year period. *The mortality rate for gunshot wounds was 22% while that for stab wounds was 4%. *Even among patients that survived, gunshot wounds were more serious -- the mean cost of treatment for these patients was more than twice that for stab wounds.

Okay, a qualification is needed.  Just how many of those "stabbings" do you think was from someone who knows where or how to stab or from something resembling an actual knife?  Does a pencil count as a stab wound in this case?  An icepick?  A stiletto?  I qualified my statement by using a large knife (as may be expected in combat) for my example.

People owning guns doesn't bother me... that much. Or rather people haven't been shooting at me... that much.

But, I think they should just require them all to be pink (or orange) and have a 4-foot long barrel even if it's a pistol.

Vilham wrote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4347649.ece

Knife crime is not rising. Your google search fails entirely seeing as it has no police or government reports on crime rates, its all individual reports on separate knife crime.

You know whats funny as well?

You are just as likely to be attacked with a knife in the US as in the UK.

Therefore based on your own logic US = fail. I really laugh at gun nuts that still try to claim guns reduce crime. Have fun with your 6x higher homicide rate.

Btw guess what banning guns did? O it lowered crime.

Knife crime IS rising.  I didn't say overall crime was rising.  Read your own quoted article.  Read this one.  And in the article you cite, it actually says “In London, there is almost no public faith in the crime figures.”   Sounds alot like the US's propaganda driven media.

And you're bringing up the likelihood of being stabbed in the US why?  Is it because you're taking offense at my claims and you're lashing out at me and my country with irrelevant BS?  I haven't failed at my claim..guns were in fact taken away, and knife related assaults have climbed.  I said UK gun-control both worked, and it didn't in my witty way on page 2.  Am I wrong?

Gun nut?  How am I a gun nut?  Is it because you've seen many well written and logical posts supporting responsible and constitutionally sound opinions of mine pertaining to lawful ownership of guns, or because you've seen pictures of me and my shirtless friends all named "Bubba" shooting our shotguns at stuffed animals on a burnt out car chassis?  Do you even know what a gun nut is?

Also, you cannot PROVE that banning guns lowered crime...that's an absolute impossibility especially given the many variables in declaring so..if it were possible to do.  Crime can drop for many reasons...could be because they fear Simon Pegg comin' after them!

they have less black people.




ahahahahahahahaha racist alert.

/win

imortal wrote:

jord wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

..I know I'd rather be shot than stabbed...stabbings kill more than gunshots too.

I'd rather be stabbed, I can't believe getting shot is less fatal than getting stabbed.

Ironchef is quite right, actually,  It has to do with the wounding methods.  I bullet will either push into and straight through you, causing relatively little damage internally, or it will enter and stop in you.  either way, you have a basically round hole in your body.  The hydrostatic shock can cause some additional damage, but that is better for momentary stopping effects.

A knife, especially a sizeable one used for fighting will push a good channel into you, but because one edge is sharp, it will cause more bleeding.  Depending how you cut or stab, it could cause a LOT more bleeding and damage to internal organs.

Oh, and just for giggles.  A solid hard stab with a knife has about as much kinetic energy than a 9mm bullet.  We did not switch to guns for power; we did it for range.  No one in their right mind should underestimate a knife held by someone proficient in its use.

I thought bullets Mushroom on impact and as it penetrates further the wound gets bigger, like a funnel.

jord wrote:

imortal wrote:

jord wrote:

I'd rather be stabbed, I can't believe getting shot is less fatal than getting stabbed.

Ironchef is quite right, actually,  It has to do with the wounding methods.  I bullet will either push into and straight through you, causing relatively little damage internally, or it will enter and stop in you.  either way, you have a basically round hole in your body.  The hydrostatic shock can cause some additional damage, but that is better for momentary stopping effects.

A knife, especially a sizeable one used for fighting will push a good channel into you, but because one edge is sharp, it will cause more bleeding.  Depending how you cut or stab, it could cause a LOT more bleeding and damage to internal organs.

Oh, and just for giggles.  A solid hard stab with a knife has about as much kinetic energy than a 9mm bullet.  We did not switch to guns for power; we did it for range.  No one in their right mind should underestimate a knife held by someone proficient in its use.

I thought bullets Mushroom on impact and as it penetrates further the wound gets bigger, like a funnel.

some do, some do not.  It depends on bullet shape.  Some tumble and/or fragment, as well.  All of these are designs to make the bullet more effective.  I was talking about "ball" ammunition.

All of this is very dependant on the type of knife, type of bullet, calibre, material being worn, location of injury, and others.

IRONCHEF wrote:

Vilham wrote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4347649.ece

Knife crime is not rising. Your google search fails entirely seeing as it has no police or government reports on crime rates, its all individual reports on separate knife crime.

You know whats funny as well?

You are just as likely to be attacked with a knife in the US as in the UK.

Therefore based on your own logic US = fail. I really laugh at gun nuts that still try to claim guns reduce crime. Have fun with your 6x higher homicide rate.

Btw guess what banning guns did? O it lowered crime.

Knife crime IS rising.  I didn't say overall crime was rising.  Read your own quoted article.  Read this one.  And in the article you cite, it actually says “In London, there is almost no public faith in the crime figures.”   Sounds alot like the US's propaganda driven media.

And you're bringing up the likelihood of being stabbed in the US why?  Is it because you're taking offense at my claims and you're lashing out at me and my country with irrelevant BS?  I haven't failed at my claim..guns were in fact taken away, and knife related assaults have climbed.  I said UK gun-control both worked, and it didn't in my witty way on page 2.  Am I wrong?

Gun nut?  How am I a gun nut?  Is it because you've seen many well written and logical posts supporting responsible and constitutionally sound opinions of mine pertaining to lawful ownership of guns, or because you've seen pictures of me and my shirtless friends all named "Bubba" shooting our shotguns at stuffed animals on a burnt out car chassis?  Do you even know what a gun nut is?

Also, you cannot PROVE that banning guns lowered crime...that's an absolute impossibility especially given the many variables in declaring so..if it were possible to do.  Crime can drop for many reasons...could be because they fear Simon Pegg comin' after them!

You might want to note the use of words they used:

A quarter-by-quarter breakdown suggests that the offending has accelerated over the course of the year, fuelling fears that the problem is getting worse.

Suggests not shows. Fuelling fears that the problem is getting worse, not the problem is getting worse but fears of it are.

O noes people don't trust the figures. I wonder why that is, maybe because they like you fall for this increased feeling just because the media is reporting it more. When in fact the figures shows it is not increasing.

No I point out the knife point because your whole fail thing was straight up wrong and if based on your opinion this makes UK = fail, then so does US. Again knife crime has NOT increased. Seriously go look at the government figures, because unless something massive changed in the last month and a half (last time I viewed them, which it hasn't) they aren't increasing.

And lol so bad at your last point. You just negated your entire arguement, im glad you agree with me, thanks for debating. Removal of guns has not lead to an increase in knife crime, there is no possible way of showing this even if knife crime was rising.

End of argument.

The Police make every effort to avoid to avoid recording crimes.
I've seen it happen to friends and acquintances.
'You got pushed down a flight of stairs? Sounds like a civil matter - get lost'
'You had your window broken, you have insurance? Why are you bothering me?'
'There's a stolen car being dismantled outside your house? - you need to speak to the council so the can clear up the mess when they've finished'
'Your neighbour is torturing his cat? Have you tried the RSPCA?'
'Your financial adviser pocketed GBP5,000 of your money, sorry thats below our threshold of interest - see ya'

Better still, the politicians rig the rules so what would previously have been recorded as a crime is now just a nuisance.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The Police make every effort to avoid to avoid recording crimes.
I've seen it happen to friends and acquintances.
'You got pushed down a flight of stairs? Sounds like a civil matter - get lost'
'You had your window broken, you have insurance? Why are you bothering me?'
'There's a stolen car being dismantled outside your house? - you need to speak to the council so the can clear up the mess when they've finished'
'Your neighbour is torturing his cat? Have you tried the RSPCA?'
'Your financial adviser pocketed GBP5,000 of your money, sorry thats below our threshold of interest - see ya'

Better still, the politicians rig the rules so what would previously have been recorded as a crime is now just a nuisance.

ya'll boys need more guns.

imortal wrote:

Vilham wrote:

O noes people don't trust the figures. I wonder why that is, maybe because they like you fall for this increased feeling just because the media is reporting it more. When in fact the figures shows it is not increasing.

Ok, error in logic; you say the figures show it is not increasing.  He says that the figures are suspect because the police may be under-reporting the crimes, and the media is reporting it more.  You say the figures show it is not increasing.

I will call the media sensationalism argument thus negated, since I also feel the media blows everything out of proportion.  But you did ignore his earlier argument that people feel that the police under-report crimes.  If that is true, then the figures can not be trusted; your argument disappears like the mist.

I am trying really hard to stay objective here, mostly because I am not that familiar with crime reporting in the UK.  Others on this thread have suggested that a youngster causing trouble and taking your car for a joy ride is no big deal, while here in the US it is a felony (Grand Theft Auto is not just the name of a video game).  So, dear UK posters, is there really a difference between the crimes committed in the UK and the crimes reported?

More crimes are report than ever.

Seriously it IS because of the media that this unfounded fear is growing.

Ofc joy riding is definately a crime, most of the time the owner will get their car back the chav will get banged up, police helicopters own joy riders. However that isn't a crime on the same scale as assault, mugging, killing etc I don't know about you but I would take someone taking my insured goods over doing physical damage to me anyday.

What do you mean? Im guessing you mean something like this: I don't know how the police system in the US works, but the police in the UK have set standards, they can't "under report" something, crimes fit into classifications, pretty wide classifications eg BB guns coming under gun related crime. If there is a stabbing involving a knife its written down as a knife crime.

Or guessing something like this. National crime figures are taken directly from police reports by an governmental body that doesn't answer to the police. If the report says certain number of knife crime was reported then that will be exactly how many were reported. The police have no control over covering up knife crime and what possible reason would they have for doing so?

Maybe M.O.A.B. was right about people not respecting police officers anymore.

Two police officers are on sick leave after being attacked by a mob in south London after they asked a 15-year-old girl to pick up her litter.  One officer was dragged to the ground and kicked while the other was bitten by a girl who jumped on his back.  Up to 30 people took part in the attack, which happened in North End, Croydon.