Where do the Greeks and Romans, and Chinese fit into that timeline?Dilbert_X wrote:
My point is in Western society has only begun to move - within living memory, while the Islamics were acheiving great things before most western countries even existed.
CameronPoe wrote:
No lowing: that's not an answer, answer the fucking question.lowing wrote:
see above post
Repeat: By your rationale, is Judaism an archaic and violent religion?
No you're just dodging the argument.Again, I live in the here and now, it is the time I am concerned about most.
Now explain how you can cherry pick negative stuff about Islam but not Judaism.To take a religion and cherry pick it and only recognize what suits you or is convenient for you is not practicing that religion. That goes for any religion.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-29 06:10:27)
China is in the West? This is news.Where do the Greeks and Romans, and Chinese fit into that timeline?
I dunno what do they believe? Do they teach to kill or convert everything in site?CameronPoe wrote:
No lowing: that's not an answer, answer the fucking question.lowing wrote:
see above post
Repeat: By your rationale, is Judaism an archaic and violent religion?
All religions must be interpreted by the minds of men. Al ancient-texts of this sort - written with words based upon ever changing parochial traditions; customs; conditions; including economic/governmental conditions - will be interpreted based upon the flowing-changing meaning of words. They are always interpreted; an interpretation - plain and simple. There will never be total or certain agreement of what has been deemed "divinely inspired" or "directed by a deity." The permutations of sects; types of worship; within any major-faith are direct evidence of that fact. And, religions evolve over time - some even die an evolutionary death. Christianity historically has had some very dark periods and you'ld expect it to - since humans with human minds are involved in the interpretation of that faith. They've slowly evolved and changed over time.lowing wrote:
To take a religion and cherry pick it and only recognize what suits you or is convenient for you is not practicing that religion. That goes for any religion.
Even the Romans considered Judaism to be the most dangerous religion of their time.Dilbert_X wrote:
So the Jews have interpreted whatever book they read to allow them to follow their crusade and expel the muslims from the bit of land which they reckon was theirs 2,000 years ago.
They don't seem to have moved on a lot in those 2,000 years have they?
the Jews have not crusaded shit, they were given that land by the UN, or am I wrong about that?Dilbert_X wrote:
So the Jews have interpreted whatever book they read to allow them to follow their crusade and expel the muslims from the bit of land which they reckon was theirs 2,000 years ago.
They don't seem to have moved on a lot in those 2,000 years have they?No you're just dodging the argument.Again, I live in the here and now, it is the time I am concerned about most.
As stated before: "interpretation" is the politically correct term for, "using what is convenient and doing whatever I feel like". It has nothing to do with the written word and therefore has nothing to with the religion that word is taught under.topal63 wrote:
All religions must be interpreted by the minds of men. Al ancient-texts of this sort - written with words based upon ever changing parochial traditions; customs; conditions; including economic/governmental conditions - will be interpreted based upon the flowing-changing meaning of words. They are always interpreted; an interpretation - plain and simple. There will never be total or certain agreement of what has been deemed "divinely inspired" or "directed by a deity." The permutations of sects; types of worship; within any major-faith are direct evidence of that fact. And, religions evolve over time - some even die an evolutionary death. Christianity historically has had some very dark periods and you'ld expect it to - since humans with human minds are involved in the interpretation of that faith. They've slowly evolved and changed over time.lowing wrote:
To take a religion and cherry pick it and only recognize what suits you or is convenient for you is not practicing that religion. That goes for any religion.
I do not know the future of Islam, nor do you, they do interpret their religion in different ways and the future incarnations of Islam are dependent upon those human interpretations.
The Zionist pressure to take Palestine was practically a crusade - ask a Zionist or look it up.the Jews have not crusaded shit, they were given that land by the UN, or am I wrong about that?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-29 06:15:33)
Pretty much yeah. Would you like me to fetch quotes. It also preaches stoning of rape victims and practitioners of adultery. It's quite brutal. Shall I fetch the segments?lowing wrote:
I dunno what do they believe? Do they teach to kill or convert everything in site?CameronPoe wrote:
No lowing: that's not an answer, answer the fucking question.lowing wrote:
see above post
Repeat: By your rationale, is Judaism an archaic and violent religion?
Nope, I will believe ya, then yes it is a violent archaic religion that has no place in modern society. If it is not being practiced, then they are not practicing it. Pretty simple huh?CameronPoe wrote:
Pretty much yeah. Would you like me to fetch quotes. It also preaches stoning of rape victims and practitioners of adultery. It's quite brutal. Shall I fetch the segments?lowing wrote:
I dunno what do they believe? Do they teach to kill or convert everything in site?CameronPoe wrote:
No lowing: that's not an answer, answer the fucking question.
Repeat: By your rationale, is Judaism an archaic and violent religion?
It would be great if you comprehended what was stated (in semiotic terms) instead of ignoring it before getting back on your dead "Islam sucks" horse and beating its dead body and/or your other familiar drums some more.lowing wrote:
As stated before: "interpretation" is the politically correct term for, "using what is convenient and doing whatever I feel like". It has nothing to do with the written word and therefore has nothing to with the religion that word is taught under.topal63 wrote:
All religions must be interpreted by the minds of men. All ancient-texts of this sort - written with words based upon ever changing parochial traditions; customs; conditions; including economic/governmental conditions - will be interpreted based upon the flowing-changing meaning of words. They are always interpreted; an interpretation - plain and simple. There will never be total or certain agreement of what has been deemed "divinely inspired" or "directed by a deity." The permutations of sects; types of worship; within any major-faith are direct evidence of that fact. And, religions evolve over time - some even die an evolutionary death. Christianity historically has had some very dark periods and you'ld expect it to - since humans with human minds are involved in the interpretation of that faith. They've slowly evolved and changed over time.lowing wrote:
To take a religion and cherry pick it and only recognize what suits you or is convenient for you is not practicing that religion. That goes for any religion.
I do not know the future of Islam, nor do you, they do interpret their religion in different ways and the future incarnations of Islam are dependent upon those human interpretations.
Last edited by topal63 (2008-07-29 06:49:03)
I do comprehend what you are saying, it is however pretty cut and dry.topal63 wrote:
It would be great if you comprehended what was stated (in semiotic terms) instead of ignoring it before getting back on your dead "Islam sucks" horse and beating its dead body and your familiar drums some more.lowing wrote:
As stated before: "interpretation" is the politically correct term for, "using what is convenient and doing whatever I feel like". It has nothing to do with the written word and therefore has nothing to with the religion that word is taught under.topal63 wrote:
All religions must be interpreted by the minds of men. Al ancient-texts of this sort - written with words based upon ever changing parochial traditions; customs; conditions; including economic/governmental conditions - will be interpreted based upon the flowing-changing meaning of words. They are always interpreted; an interpretation - plain and simple. There will never be total or certain agreement of what has been deemed "divinely inspired" or "directed by a deity." The permutations of sects; types of worship; within any major-faith are direct evidence of that fact. And, religions evolve over time - some even die an evolutionary death. Christianity historically has had some very dark periods and you'ld expect it to - since humans with human minds are involved in the interpretation of that faith. They've slowly evolved and changed over time.
I do not know the future of Islam, nor do you, they do interpret their religion in different ways and the future incarnations of Islam are dependent upon those human interpretations.
Lowing, do any religions belong in today's modern western society?lowing wrote:
Nope, I will believe ya, then yes it is a violent archaic religion that has no place in modern society. If it is not being practiced, then they are not practicing it. Pretty simple huh?
Is this true? There was a country call Palestine?Dilbert_X wrote:
The Zionist pressure to take Palestine was practically a crusade - ask a Zionist or look it up.the Jews have not crusaded shit, they were given that land by the UN, or am I wrong about that?
They were allowed to create a homeland by the UN after they had effectively taken it, subject to the rights of the indigenous Palestinians who they promptly expelled or slaughtered.
So I say they broke the deal, the deals off.
I am not religious, but Christianity seems to come the closest to western values, since our values are based on it I would guess.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Lowing, do any religions belong in today's modern western society?lowing wrote:
Nope, I will believe ya, then yes it is a violent archaic religion that has no place in modern society. If it is not being practiced, then they are not practicing it. Pretty simple huh?
Surely when you look at each of the religions, they clash with science, personal freedom's such as divorce, abortion, etc that we all take for granted.
Are you saying you should follow blindly stuff written 1,000s of years to be counted as following your religion?If you are not going to follow the word of your religion, and only follow what you like or what is convenient or only what fits your agenda at the time, then you ARE NOT following your religion. How the hell can you disagree with that? This goes for any religion.
lol Jesus isn't around anymore. The Church is though. And the bible has been written and re-written that many times it's not funny. And as cam just posted, as holy texts are interpreted the way a Church wants them to be Jesus can be the opposite from teaching love to everyone.lowing wrote:
Jesus teaches love, tolerance, forgiveness, etc.......Only the church teaches hatred of homosexuals etc..
Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-07-29 06:32:38)
CHRISTIANITY follows CHRIST.Dilbert_X wrote:
Are you saying you should follow blindly stuff written 1,000s of years to be counted as following your religion?If you are not going to follow the word of your religion, and only follow what you like or what is convenient or only what fits your agenda at the time, then you ARE NOT following your religion. How the hell can you disagree with that? This goes for any religion.
I thought it was archaic crap and needed to be reinterpreted?
According to Christianity all gays must be stoned to death - its there in black and white- which while sounding fun is a bit backward.
(Bible says gays must be killed - Jesus says love your brother WTF?)
All religions are complete bollocks as far as I'm concerned. Interpretation is just fluff.
see above CamCameronPoe wrote:
"And The Lord said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)
"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)
"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."(Leviticus 20:10)
"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)
"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:11)
"And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:12)
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:27)
"David and his men went out and killed 200 Philistines. He brought the foreskis of their penises and presented them to the king so that David might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal to David." (1 Samuel 18:27)
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
(1 Samuel 15:3)
"If the guilty man is to be beaten, the judge shall make him lie down and have him flogged in his presence with the number of lashes he is set with, but he must not be given more than forty lashes. If he is flogged more than that, he will be degraded in your eyes." (Deuteronomy 25:2)
OK Lowing now your can answer, I've dredged up some quotes. You can have more if you want.
Repeat: Is Judaism, by your rationale, an archaic and violent religion?
And what is God going to have to say about that? I thought the whole point of sending the nipper was to glorify himself?CHRISTIANITY follows CHRIST.
I read half the old one, I think I gave up at 'Regulations for Mildew'Read the New Covenant.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-07-29 06:36:00)
This is about Judaism.lowing wrote:
see above CamCameronPoe wrote:
"And The Lord said to Moses ... He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)
"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)
"If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)
"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."(Leviticus 20:10)
"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)
"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:11)
"And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:12)
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:27)
"David and his men went out and killed 200 Philistines. He brought the foreskis of their penises and presented them to the king so that David might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal to David." (1 Samuel 18:27)
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
(1 Samuel 15:3)
"If the guilty man is to be beaten, the judge shall make him lie down and have him flogged in his presence with the number of lashes he is set with, but he must not be given more than forty lashes. If he is flogged more than that, he will be degraded in your eyes." (Deuteronomy 25:2)
OK Lowing now your can answer, I've dredged up some quotes. You can have more if you want.
Repeat: Is Judaism, by your rationale, an archaic and violent religion?
