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2008-07-26 15:44:03
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6918|Washington DC

Bertster7 wrote:

Of course it's his computer .... If you own something it is yours, you have legally enforceable rights to it .... I called the police who gave my dad a call and told him he was legally obliged to give it back
Yes, technically, ownership (title) is to the child.  ... but what does "ownership" really mean?  It means that one should be able to do with it as they wish.  Right?

However, a parent is the legal guardian of a minor, and (under the law) has the power to control/manage the minor's income, money, and all other property.  That is, she can regulate how much it is used, who uses it, and whether or not it is used.  Yes, the child owns it technically ... but the parent effectively owns it since she controls its use.  The policeman was wrong*.

(Children have sued their parents for control over property in the past, by the way ... and in a few cases they have won ... I think competency must be established).





*I should mention that in an adoption or guardianship (non-parental), it may be that the child controls his property UNLESS the new guardian has obtained guardianship over the property.
2008-07-26 16:26:09
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6836|NYC / Hamburg

It is well within a parents right to control the usage of the PC including confiscation to help the childs education and development. They cannot however force the child to share or give up his property. We do not live in a communistic society. A person is protected by law in their ownership of things regardless of their age.
In extreme situations, they could force him to sell the PC to help support the family, however I highly doubt that they are such a bad financial situation to warrant such measures.

/law student

(As his parents are apparently not generous at all and do not respect his property, I see no reason for him to be forthcoming either)
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
2008-07-26 16:34:50
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6918|Washington DC

max wrote:

They cannot however force the child to share or give up his property.
I'm pretty sure a parent can sell a minor's property, but (if one were to be strict here), the proceeds from the sale are the minors.  (I only say this, because a guardian of an estate can buy and sell stocks/bonds etc. on behalf of the minor, but the proceeds are still owned by the minor).

As for sharing?  Well, I'm not a student of law but (a) I would be surprised if a parent couldn't dictate sharing and (b) even if it couldn't be shared, the parent could put the resource out of service until the child either shares or turns 18.
2008-07-26 16:59:54
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6836|NYC / Hamburg

OrangeHound wrote:

max wrote:

They cannot however force the child to share or give up his property.
I'm pretty sure a parent can sell a minor's property, but (if one were to be strict here), the proceeds from the sale are the minors.  (I only say this, because a guardian of an estate can buy and sell stocks/bonds etc. on behalf of the minor, but the proceeds are still owned by the minor).
They could sell it if it were in the best interest of a child. With 16, the child has a certain ability to judge his actions and see their consequences. Within that ability the parents have to respect the child's will. To what degree PCs fall under that ability to judge is a whole other discussion, but I think we can agree that it is at least partially there. For such cases, the child's will has to be taken into account. In either case, the money earned by selling the PC belongs to the child and cannot be touched unless necessary to maintain a decent lifestyle.

As for sharing?  Well, I'm not a student of law but (a) I would be surprised if a parent couldn't dictate sharing and (b) even if it couldn't be shared, the parent could put the resource out of service until the child either shares or turns 18.
Generally speaking, if the parents truly believe that the child will benefit as a person, they can restrict the usage. Forcing to share isn't really possible. In this case, I don't see any lesson he could learn from confiscating the PC, except maybe that life is unfair and you get screwed over by those in power. His brother is a useless drain on society. If anything his parents should throw his brother out of the house and tell the brother to grow up. Living at home at that age and "stealing" PC usage from your little brother is just pathetic

Excuse my ramblings, it's getting a bit late
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
2008-07-26 17:30:25
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6918|Washington DC

max wrote:

His brother is a useless drain on society. If anything his parents should throw his brother out of the house and tell the brother to grow up. Living at home at that age and "stealing" PC usage from your little brother is just pathetic.
We may not have all the story ... his brother could be in college (and without income) and needs to use the computer to do his schoolwork, in addition to the porn surfing.
2008-07-26 17:33:42
i g
Banned
+876|6132|GA

OrangeHound wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

Whenever he gets home late at night, he pauses all of my torrents ...
Hmmm ... two observations:
  • I'm guessing that this is not "your" computer since (a) your mom ultimately controls it and (b) you share it with your brother.
  • Torrents are notoriously problematic with an internet connection, slowing it down to a crawl sometimes. 


If these observations are correct, then you have no rational reason to be angry with your brother.  When he's on the computer, he shouldn't be slowed down by your torrents ... and you would probably do well to learn the discipline of sharing.  Sharing necessarily means that you don't get your way all the time.

(If my observations are wrong, then just ignore what I wrote).
This is definately mine because the computer guy at my school gave it to me but my mom thinks we should have to share it since we live in the same room.
No.  It isn't your computer.

Most parents do not operate their homes like a democracy, where ownership is distributed to the "people" and decisions are by the majority.  Most parents practice more of a communist system headed by a benevolent dictator.  Thus, ultimately, parents view everything in the house as being owned by the "family" and, as benevolent dictator, they decide how communal property is to be used ... regardless of how the material came into the house.  This is how parents manage chaos.  Now, parents know that they have to be careful not to socialize all things for the family, but they will choose some things.

Apparently, your parents have chosen to socialize your computer.  Is this fair?  They pay for the electricity that powers it, the facility that houses it, the environmental controls that keep it from deteriorating, and (likely) the internet connection that makes it ultimately useful.   Without all these things, "your" computer is useless ... so, your parents allow you to use these core items of infrastructure in exchange for your computer being socialized.

You should thank them for all the things they give you, rather than complaining about a trivial thing such as your torrents being paused late at night.

(Meh, I have a parents perspective ...)
you would have hated to have me as a kid
2008-07-26 18:47:54
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6985|Riva, MD

I'm Jamesey wrote:

Well judging by your responses you seem to me to be arrogant, spoiled opinionated and you have a really inflated sense of self worth.

You're 16, stop being such a mummy's boy and take responsibility for yourself and he might show you some respect, if my younger brother ran to my mum every time he had a problem with me, I'd piss him off on purpose as well.

Explain to him that you need your torrents, tell him he can close them when he's on as long as he sets them up running again when he's done, leave him alone about his porn, as long as it's not gay, or child you've got nothing to worry about.

I bet you remind him every other day that he's lucky you let him sleep in your room and he's lucky that you let him use your stuff, no wonder he resents you and looks for ways to upset you.
No, I'm not that much of a dick to him.  Telling him that he is an idiot for still having to live here is a hit below the belt in my opinion and he would fight me anyway if I did that I would think.  Truth be told, the way the economy is going, I wouldn't be surprised if I end up that way myself.  With the way prices are, it is nearly impossible to live.  He's living here because he fucked up and dropped out of high school in '97 after doing his Sophomore year twice and failing.  I'm gonna be living here much like other people my age will still be living with their parents because shit will be less affordable in a couple of years.

As for the part about the mom, what the hell else am I supposed to do?  He works out and I don't and he's an adult, I'm in for some injuries if I try to fight him.  He threatened to body slam me if I didn't close the cabinets after he got out of the bathroom just because I forgot to shut them, that so fucking unacceptable that I would've stabbed him myself as soon as he came out if I hadn't thought to resolve this peacfully and go to my mom.  I don't tolerate being threatened by half-breed bastards, especially not in MY OWN FUCKING HOUSE.  I already told my mom I will do it if he ever attacks me again because I'm done with his shit.  He's not my fucking dad and he doesn't have any authority over me.  Call me insane but I hate him.

OrangeHound wrote:

max wrote:

His brother is a useless drain on society. If anything his parents should throw his brother out of the house and tell the brother to grow up. Living at home at that age and "stealing" PC usage from your little brother is just pathetic.
We may not have all the story ... his brother could be in college (and without income) and needs to use the computer to do his schoolwork, in addition to the porn surfing.
While he does go to college, he doesn't currently have classes and lies to me by telling me he has to do a paper just so he can steal it for a few hours, load up some porn, go on whatever stupid UFC and philosophy forums that he goes to, and just whatever he wants.  If he just said he wanted to use it for a few hours I would prefer that over him lying like this.

I don't see why he can't buy his own fucking computer.

Last edited by _j5689_ (2008-07-26 18:49:55)

2008-07-26 21:11:34
Defiance
Member
+438|6939

_j5689_ wrote:

I don't see why he can't buy his own fucking computer.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if he dropped out and is living with his parents he's not rolling in it.

Considering you're talking about stabbing your brother in "your own fucking house" (read: laughable, it's as much yours as it is his) I think locking your torrent app isn't going to solve anything. You guys have problems. That need to be solved. Professionally.
2008-07-27 06:15:44
_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6985|Riva, MD

Defiance wrote:

_j5689_ wrote:

I don't see why he can't buy his own fucking computer.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if he dropped out and is living with his parents he's not rolling in it.

Considering you're talking about stabbing your brother in "your own fucking house" (read: laughable, it's as much yours as it is his) I think locking your torrent app isn't going to solve anything. You guys have problems. That need to be solved. Professionally.
Oddly enough, he didn't pause them this night.  He must've read something over my shoulder or he has possibly just been forgetting to turn it back on when he's done.

I imagine it really wouldn't take that much to save up and get his own computer.  I wonder where his paychecks are actually going.

 

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