If I am not mistaken Jesus was babtized by John the Baptist was he not?Braddock wrote:
Did Jesus Christ get baptised, yes or no?lowing wrote:
Really? CHRISTIANITY meaning the teachings of CHRIST, says this??Braddock wrote:
In the story of paradise lost Islam regards man and woman as equally culpable whereas Christianity holds woman to blame for leading man astray.
Does anyone?lowing wrote:
LOL, Does anyone? At least I have a grasp as to what it has been used for pal.Bertster7 wrote:
Wow. You really don't have much grasp of what religion is then do you?lowing wrote:
Nope you are comparing social acceptances with RELIGIOUS teachings. 2 very differnt things. Socially we can all bend t oaccomadate anything we please. Interpretation of a written word is to bend that word into something YOU can use for your own agenda.
Our Constitution is a perfect example. The word is written, but depending on which side of the debate you are on, you will twist the word or exclude parts of it, to support your position. Totally disregarding the intent. By doing so you have changed what has been written, so you might as well come up with your own laws ( start a new religion ) to support whatever it is you wanna believe to be true.
I do not believe everything is shades of grey.
You are either a virgin or you are not
You are either pregnant or you are not
You either adhere to your religion or you do not. How you think you can be able to ONLY adhere to those parts of a religion that suits you is beyond me. I love your ideaa of an effortless religion, no sacrificing of ones self, no devotion and total justification for your actions because you have "interpreted" the word to grant it. Gimme a break. You have created your own religion by doing this bullshit.
Of course. Anyone who's bothered to take a look at any religious history in any sort of depth, anyway.
Wow, another one who believes CHRISTianity started 2000 years before CHRIST... Oh wellBertster7 wrote:
You forget, lowing likes to pretend that the old testament is not a fundamental part of Christianity. He thinks it's all just the new testament, with the old testament thrown in for good measure - whereas it's actually the old testament as the fundamentals and the new testament as a big old amendment of that.Braddock wrote:
Did Jesus Christ get baptised, yes or no?lowing wrote:
Really? CHRISTIANITY meaning the teachings of CHRIST, says this??
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?lowing wrote:
If I am not mistaken Jesus was babtized by John the Baptist was he not?Braddock wrote:
Did Jesus Christ get baptised, yes or no?lowing wrote:
Really? CHRISTIANITY meaning the teachings of CHRIST, says this??
The part of your response in yellow is all that concerns you...there is no need to worry beyond that.lowing wrote:
I would rather they blend in, but by doing so they are not practicing Islam as it is taught, now are they? Only interpreted and we have discussed what interpretation really is haven't we?Braddock wrote:
@ Lowing
Would you rather Muslims were interpreting the Qu'ran word for word in it's most extremist form or blending in with modern society?
Unless you yourself believe in Allah and fear for the fate of their souls.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-31 15:39:46)
I am listening. Please explain the 15,000 different variations of Islam, Christianity etc...if not for the sole purpose of "interpreting" the teachings to satisfy an agenda, or satisfy an inconvenience. Please explain how the crusades were justified if not for the "interpretation" of the word of God.Bertster7 wrote:
No, you've just made some (wrong) statements about it.lowing wrote:
I would rather thet blend in, but by doing so they are not practicing Islam as it is taught, now are they? Only interpreted and we have discussed what interpretation really is haven't we?Braddock wrote:
@ Lowing
Would you rather Muslims were interpreting the Qu'ran word for word in it's most extremist form or blending in with modern society?
No, just that Christianity is an amendment to Judaism. Which is exactly what it is. Jesus saw how peoples interpretation of religion was drifting away from the true meaning of it and so he sorted it out. That's fundamentally what Christianity is.lowing wrote:
Wow, another one who believes CHRISTianity started 2000 years before CHRIST... Oh wellBertster7 wrote:
You forget, lowing likes to pretend that the old testament is not a fundamental part of Christianity. He thinks it's all just the new testament, with the old testament thrown in for good measure - whereas it's actually the old testament as the fundamentals and the new testament as a big old amendment of that.Braddock wrote:
Did Jesus Christ get baptised, yes or no?
yeah right, and to date what has it gotten us...More interpretationBertster7 wrote:
Does anyone?lowing wrote:
LOL, Does anyone? At least I have a grasp as to what it has been used for pal.Bertster7 wrote:
Wow. You really don't have much grasp of what religion is then do you?
Of course. Anyone who's bothered to take a look at any religious history in any sort of depth, anyway.
Exactly, more interpretation. Because that's what religion is.lowing wrote:
yeah right, and to date what has it gotten us...More interpretationBertster7 wrote:
Does anyone?lowing wrote:
LOL, Does anyone? At least I have a grasp as to what it has been used for pal.
Of course. Anyone who's bothered to take a look at any religious history in any sort of depth, anyway.
Jesus was a Jew Braddock, he was not a Christian. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, it was invented by those that followed his teachings fore-going those of the old testament, hell the bible wasn't even written until 100 years or so after his death. His message and teachings, ( the new covenant) is a different message from that of the old testamentBraddock wrote:
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?lowing wrote:
If I am not mistaken Jesus was babtized by John the Baptist was he not?Braddock wrote:
Did Jesus Christ get baptised, yes or no?
More interpretation because the written word does not fullfill a particular agenda of the moment. Nothing more nothing less.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly, more interpretation. Because that's what religion is.lowing wrote:
yeah right, and to date what has it gotten us...More interpretationBertster7 wrote:
Does anyone?
Of course. Anyone who's bothered to take a look at any religious history in any sort of depth, anyway.
More like 300 years.lowing wrote:
Jesus was a Jew Braddock, he was not a Christian. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, it was invented by those that followed his teachings fore-going those of the old testament, hell the bible wasn't even written until 100 years or so after his death. His message and teachings, ( the new covenant) is a different message from that of the old testamentBraddock wrote:
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?lowing wrote:
If I am not mistaken Jesus was babtized by John the Baptist was he not?
I stand corrected, would you agree the the rest of the post?Bertster7 wrote:
More like 300 years.lowing wrote:
Jesus was a Jew Braddock, he was not a Christian. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, it was invented by those that followed his teachings fore-going those of the old testament, hell the bible wasn't even written until 100 years or so after his death. His message and teachings, ( the new covenant) is a different message from that of the old testamentBraddock wrote:
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?
It is not an amendment, it is a "NEW COVENANT". A totally separate teaching or message from God delivered by Jesus.Bertster7 wrote:
No, just that Christianity is an amendment to Judaism. Which is exactly what it is. Jesus saw how peoples interpretation of religion was drifting away from the true meaning of it and so he sorted it out. That's fundamentally what Christianity is.lowing wrote:
Wow, another one who believes CHRISTianity started 2000 years before CHRIST... Oh wellBertster7 wrote:
You forget, lowing likes to pretend that the old testament is not a fundamental part of Christianity. He thinks it's all just the new testament, with the old testament thrown in for good measure - whereas it's actually the old testament as the fundamentals and the new testament as a big old amendment of that.
The council of Nicea was the biggest interpretation job of all time. That was essentially the foundation of Christianity as it is known today. How close that is to what actually happened no one can really say, since there isn't enough evidence available. So the written word is nothing but interpretation.lowing wrote:
More interpretation because the written word does not fullfill a particular agenda of the moment. Nothing more nothing less.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly, more interpretation. Because that's what religion is.lowing wrote:
yeah right, and to date what has it gotten us...More interpretation
In fact Christianity illustrates this better than anything else because the new testament is made up of a number of contradictory tales describing the same events. If that's not a clear cut illustration of how fundamental interpretation is to religion, then I don't know what is....
No what I fear is the ease of those wishing us harm to infiltrate pretending to be someone they are not using our laws and rights as a weapon against us when the time comes. With people like you fighting for their right of privacy and abandament of profiling to help them. Because someone might get their feelings hurt.Braddock wrote:
The part of your response in yellow is all that concerns you...there is no need to worry beyond that.lowing wrote:
I would rather they blend in, but by doing so they are not practicing Islam as it is taught, now are they? Only interpreted and we have discussed what interpretation really is haven't we?Braddock wrote:
@ Lowing
Would you rather Muslims were interpreting the Qu'ran word for word in it's most extremist form or blending in with modern society?
Unless you yourself believe in Allah and fear for the fate of their souls.
It's an amendment.lowing wrote:
It is not an amendment, it is a "NEW COVENANT". A totally separate teaching or message from God delivered by Jesus.Bertster7 wrote:
No, just that Christianity is an amendment to Judaism. Which is exactly what it is. Jesus saw how peoples interpretation of religion was drifting away from the true meaning of it and so he sorted it out. That's fundamentally what Christianity is.lowing wrote:
Wow, another one who believes CHRISTianity started 2000 years before CHRIST... Oh well
You're missing my point lowing. Jesus himself believed in Judaism's concept of original sin where woman was responsible for man's fall from grace. He didn't look at that concept and think 'that's not really fair towards women, I don't think I'll adhere to that belief', instead he got himself baptised in accordance with it. Many accounts also suggest that Jesus was quite old when he got baptised, lending further weight to the argument that he chose to believe this concept and was not merely entered into it through childhood inculcation.lowing wrote:
Jesus was a Jew Braddock, he was not a Christian. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, it was invented by those that followed his teachings fore-going those of the old testament, hell the bible wasn't even written until 100 years or so after his death. His message and teachings, ( the new covenant) is a different message from that of the old testamentBraddock wrote:
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?lowing wrote:
If I am not mistaken Jesus was babtized by John the Baptist was he not?
You can deny all you want lowing but the old testament played a big part in Jesus's life and in his own beliefs and thus it is an important part of Christianity itself. If you do not accept this then I guess you must be following your own interpretation.
however it is told, the message of Jesus, as far as I know, is the same and consistent. Now, either follow it, or do not follow it.Bertster7 wrote:
The council of Nicea was the biggest interpretation job of all time. That was essentially the foundation of Christianity as it is known today. How close that is to what actually happened no one can really say, since there isn't enough evidence available. So the written word is nothing but interpretation.lowing wrote:
More interpretation because the written word does not fullfill a particular agenda of the moment. Nothing more nothing less.Bertster7 wrote:
Exactly, more interpretation. Because that's what religion is.
In fact Christianity illustrates this better than anything else because the new testament is made up of a number of contradictory tales describing the same events. If that's not a clear cut illustration of how fundamental interpretation is to religion, then I don't know what is....
Nope, it is a totally separate book, the New Testament can stand alone, just like the old testament can. That is why it is OLD and NEW, and not OLD Testament 2.01Bertster7 wrote:
It's an amendment.lowing wrote:
It is not an amendment, it is a "NEW COVENANT". A totally separate teaching or message from God delivered by Jesus.Bertster7 wrote:
No, just that Christianity is an amendment to Judaism. Which is exactly what it is. Jesus saw how peoples interpretation of religion was drifting away from the true meaning of it and so he sorted it out. That's fundamentally what Christianity is.
Jeez, i never figured you for a crackpot conspiracy theorist lowing. You sound like General Ripper from Dr. Strangelove talking about Communists trying to infiltrate your precious fluids.lowing wrote:
No what I fear is the ease of those wishing us harm to infiltrate pretending to be someone they are not using our laws and rights as a weapon against us when the time comes. With people like you fighting for their right of privacy and abandament of profiling to help them. Because someone might get their feelings hurt.Braddock wrote:
The part of your response in yellow is all that concerns you...there is no need to worry beyond that.lowing wrote:
I would rather they blend in, but by doing so they are not practicing Islam as it is taught, now are they? Only interpreted and we have discussed what interpretation really is haven't we?
Unless you yourself believe in Allah and fear for the fate of their souls.
Yes. The general message remains constant.lowing wrote:
however it is told, the message of Jesus, as far as I know, is the same and consistent. Now, either follow it, or do not follow it.Bertster7 wrote:
The council of Nicea was the biggest interpretation job of all time. That was essentially the foundation of Christianity as it is known today. How close that is to what actually happened no one can really say, since there isn't enough evidence available. So the written word is nothing but interpretation.lowing wrote:
More interpretation because the written word does not fullfill a particular agenda of the moment. Nothing more nothing less.
In fact Christianity illustrates this better than anything else because the new testament is made up of a number of contradictory tales describing the same events. If that's not a clear cut illustration of how fundamental interpretation is to religion, then I don't know what is....
The specifics do not.
It's exactly the same with interpretation with Islam. If you follow the general message, you are a Muslim - you don't have to follow every last detail, in fact no one does. Bin Laden doesn't follow Islamic rules to the letter, he's been on film, that's not allowed - nor is having a photo or portrait taken of you (reproductions of the human form are not allowed).
Interpretation is everything.
See it depends whether you see Jesus as the son of God, or, not as the case may be, some see him as just a prophet. Now depending where you stand on the hill so to speak, i'm pretty sure most "Christians" will go with the whole Messiah malarkie..
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-07-31 16:01:37)
lol....3 question 1. lol
The teachings of Christ, to the best of my knoweldge does not refer to the old testament at all. He did live in a time where certain aspects of society were widely accepted that would not fly today. Now, did Jesus himself shun women... I do not think so. His actions and his words is what developed into CHRISTianity, and the old testament didn't play a part in it.Braddock wrote:
You're missing my point lowing. Jesus himself believed in Judaism's concept of original sin where woman was responsible for man's fall from grace. He didn't look at that concept and think 'that's not really fair towards women, I don't think I'll adhere to that belief', instead he got himself baptised in accordance with it. Many accounts also suggest that Jesus was quite old when he got baptised, lending further weight to the argument that he chose to believe this concept and was not merely entered into it through childhood inculcation.lowing wrote:
Jesus was a Jew Braddock, he was not a Christian. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, it was invented by those that followed his teachings fore-going those of the old testament, hell the bible wasn't even written until 100 years or so after his death. His message and teachings, ( the new covenant) is a different message from that of the old testamentBraddock wrote:
That would suggest Jesus believed in the concept of original sin would it not? And where might Jesus have come across this concept?
You can deny all you want lowing but the old testament played a big part in Jesus's life and in his own beliefs and thus it is an important part of Christianity itself. If you do not accept this then I guess you must be following your own interpretation.
Question, was baptism by water a part of the old testament? I do not remember