What a hater.Kmarion wrote:
Have things been going boom that I don't know about?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Cyborg said safe in a context that meant reliable. I assumed yours meant the same. Apparently yours meant if the thing goes boom, no one gets hurt. Cyborg's never went boom in the first place.Kmarion wrote:
That would be the safe part ...
My point is what a stupid hysteria ppl have regarding nuclear energy. You just decided to come in and stink up the place.
Kmarion wrote:
Have things been going boom that I don't know about?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Cyborg said safe in a context that meant reliable. I assumed yours meant the same. Apparently yours meant if the thing goes boom, no one gets hurt. Cyborg's never went boom in the first place.Kmarion wrote:
That would be the safe part ...
My point is what a stupid hysteria ppl have regarding nuclear energy. You just decided to come in and stink up the place.
Anyways back on topic it seems to me that parallel is the most realistic thing to do, because you don't have to use any gas on the short trips around town, and only have to use gas when you need what the gas engine is really in there for, range. Efficiency numbers don't mean anything without factoring in the cost of electricity and gasoline comparatively and the distance of a typical trip.Kmarion wrote:
blah blah blah I take words people just used and then use them with another definition blah blah blah
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.The#1Spot wrote:
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
Your right, lithium ion batteries require fairly complicated charging circuits to ensure that they charge safely. The lifespan of a lithium ion battery greatly depends on how you charge it.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.The#1Spot wrote:
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
Can't get 305 mile range reasonably on nickel.paul386 wrote:
Your right, lithium ion batteries require fairly complicated charging circuits to ensure that they charge safely. The lifespan of a lithium ion battery greatly depends on how you charge it.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.The#1Spot wrote:
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
I personally do not think lithium ion is a great battery for cars. Sure they have high energy storage, but they are prone to heat damage and are not as "rugged" as other batteries like nickel metal hydride.
Not even vegetable oil.The#1Spot wrote:
Pick up a used German diesel car for under 5k and run it off vegetable oil used in restaurants. With diesel at just over 5$ a gallon you would pay off the car after driving for less than 6months or maybe 2months depending on your life style. Who is seriously going to buy a $30000 more or less car just because its electric.
Last edited by topal63 (2008-07-30 10:34:41)
Car bomb tbh.topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
It uses electrolysis, no high pressure hydrogen tank necessary.Kmarion wrote:
Car bomb tbh.topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
Correct. The hydrogen is extracted from the water source continuously during operation.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
It uses electrolysis, no high pressure hydrogen tank necessary.Kmarion wrote:
Car bomb tbh.topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
Last edited by topal63 (2008-07-30 10:59:49)
They all use lithium ion cells at the moment don't they?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.The#1Spot wrote:
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
No, li-ion is expensive. Most electric/hybrids are lead acid or nickel.Bertster7 wrote:
They all use lithium ion cells at the moment don't they?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.The#1Spot wrote:
An early Honda s2000 is more practical than a tesla roadster and it can be bought for $15k to $23k.
The generators are going to have to be designed to take power from more sources than just 110V, in Europe, which is a bigger market for hybrid cars than the US (I would expect, since there are many, many, more people (2-3x as many) in Europe) we use 230W. Which is why when anyone brings their computer over here from the US, it explodes. Charging the car from a wall socket is unlikely to be particularly economical, I don't know any of the figures, but when you think about the cost of electricity and how much of it you need to meaningfully power a car,
In any case, parallel hybrid >>> series hybird. Simple as. Series hybrids are a bit rubbish. Either way, production and disposal of the cars will be exceedingly hazardous and buying them second hand, which most individuals buying cars do (in the UK 80% of new car purchases are companies not private owners), is a very bad idea since the battery life will deteriorate which reduces the useful lifespan of the car, meaning it needs to be replaced more quickly, which means they are actually substantially worse for the environment than driving a normal car.
Which makes my point about reduced life span and harmfulness to the environment even more pertinent.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
No, li-ion is expensive. Most electric/hybrids are lead acid or nickel.Bertster7 wrote:
They all use lithium ion cells at the moment don't they?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
That would have to be some sort of lithium ion system. The only problem is the charging cycle is really odd, which makes me believe that onboard generator takes power from a wall (I guess 110V? if not "stopping for lunch" is pretty unrealistic) and then puts that into the charging patterns those batteries need.
The generators are going to have to be designed to take power from more sources than just 110V, in Europe, which is a bigger market for hybrid cars than the US (I would expect, since there are many, many, more people (2-3x as many) in Europe) we use 230W. Which is why when anyone brings their computer over here from the US, it explodes. Charging the car from a wall socket is unlikely to be particularly economical, I don't know any of the figures, but when you think about the cost of electricity and how much of it you need to meaningfully power a car,
In any case, parallel hybrid >>> series hybird. Simple as. Series hybrids are a bit rubbish. Either way, production and disposal of the cars will be exceedingly hazardous and buying them second hand, which most individuals buying cars do (in the UK 80% of new car purchases are companies not private owners), is a very bad idea since the battery life will deteriorate which reduces the useful lifespan of the car, meaning it needs to be replaced more quickly, which means they are actually substantially worse for the environment than driving a normal car.
OK. How much does it cost to charge the battery?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
You can make it charge from different sources, our electric can charge on 110V and 220V so it can charge faster at home, but the very specific example in the article said you take a road trip in the U.S. Stop for lunch (to charge it) and then continue the road trip. That must mean they expect to charge it on a 110V socket.
Nor am I.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
wat wat? I'm not trying to debate anything here just so you know, I'm just skeptical about the claims they make about the wonder car.
Just for your info using the best situation for gas efficiency and the worst situation for the electric efficiency the costs came out damn even for our electric car. If anything, it comes out just ahead of gas. I don't know all the numbers, my dad ran them.
Wasn't that an episode on Mythbusters?topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
agreedBertster7 wrote:
Nor am I.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
wat wat? I'm not trying to debate anything here just so you know, I'm just skeptical about the claims they make about the wonder car.
Just for your info using the best situation for gas efficiency and the worst situation for the electric efficiency the costs came out damn even for our electric car. If anything, it comes out just ahead of gas. I don't know all the numbers, my dad ran them.
I don't think they're wonder cars. I think they're bad. The batteries are bad, they are nasty to drive (the Prius is anyway, that's the only one I've driven). The whole hybrid idea of using power from the engine to charge a big battery to supplement it is all well and good, but I don't think they've got it good enough yet. Still, we need all these crappy cars for them to get the learning curve right.
Yes/no... they tried and failed to run a car on hydrogen-only fuel-cell they made in the shop based upon plans they got off the Internet. Supposedly how they went about it - was they basically did it wrong. 1.) It's a fuel-injection add-on system - adding hydrogen to the fuel mix to increase efficiency and not a stand alone no-gas replacement. 2.) They built it incorrectly. And 3.) they didn't employ a catalyst.Pug wrote:
Wasn't that an episode on Mythbusters?topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
Last edited by topal63 (2008-07-30 13:27:45)
... just playing with the words catalyst, atom, and stable.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
It uses electrolysis, no high pressure hydrogen tank necessary.Kmarion wrote:
Car bomb tbh.topal63 wrote:
One of my contractor friends has a do it yourself hydrogen hybrid installed on her SUV (supposedly increases the fuel efficiency up to 40%, cost about $200).
She bought it off the Internet (I believe). I think it works as a fuel injection system - injecting hydrogen into the fuel mix. It is a self contained system that uses tap-water. The tap-water is broken down by an electric current and maybe a catalyst (as H2O is only stable for an extremely short period of time, about a millisecond, before it releases an hydrogen-atom then bonds again with another hydrogen-atom. The macro real-word experience is water, even though on the molecular level it's only water for a millisecond; then not; then is; then not; etc).
I haven't had a chance to talk to her in detail about it though. Another friend of mine is thinking about doing it as well.
This reminds me of the first cell phones.. gawd they sucked.Bertster7 wrote:
Still, we need all these crappy cars for them to get the learning curve right.
There is no inherent property of series hybrid that allows them to be charged from your home's electricity that parallel doesn't have. Parallel hybrids can be charged from home electricity in the exact same fashion. However, typically parallel hybrids have smaller batteries because they are not as reliant on the batteries to propel the car.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Series with a turbo diesel powering the generator FTW. Running a small turbo diesel designed for optimal fuel uses powering a specific generator at a specific RPM is very effient. Add that to a car being able to be charged off house electricity and SHAZAM! You could easily average 100+ MPG if you live within 10 -15 miles from work and don't tend to go on long trips constantly.
Also, a diesel motor mated to a generator with powering it at a constant RPM costs very little and is as maintenance free as you can get with internal combustion motors. No transmission, no electronic ignition, just on/off. It would be extremely small, I would guess ~ 45-60 hp w/110 -140 flbs of torque, and I would guess lighter and cheaper than the Prius due to lack of complex transmission/ignition system needed.
