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2008-07-31 18:36:50
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

True that, it is already impossible to slow this train down.  The US could not withstand 8 years of Bush, it is 100% his fault.  Interest on the debt has ballooned out of control at an exponential rate while the US continues to try to spend its way out of a collapsing economy.  Credit is just spending the money from tommorrows work today, and this is such a huge part of the money floating around in our economy now that nobody is going to be able to honor a majority of the commitments.  Soon the economy will fold and Americans will learn just how below average we are as people in our Mexican Cuban Hatian Iraqi country that no longer stands unified by language, religion, and ideals.

The communists took over the US government and destroyed us, kudos to the KGB on exploiting the weaknesses of a free society.
We have had a national debt all but two years of our existence.
Yes, but look at this...

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif

In recent history, the first Bush and Reagan really increased our debt % of GDP.  Clinton decreased it, but then Bush #2 jumped it back up.
The democratic party lost their balls after Kennedy. Kennedy was conservative. When is the last time you heard a Democrat say "Ask not what your country can do for you?" . Not to mention he cut taxes. <3 Kennedy.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 18:38:17
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina
What we need now is a president who cuts spending.  That's not gonna happen with Obama or McCain though.

We're kind of fucked when it comes to debt.
2008-07-31 18:40:38
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

What we need now is a president who cuts spending.  That's not gonna happen with Obama or McCain though.

We're kind of fucked when it comes to debt.
We need to become a producing nation again. This is what happens after years of success. You get lazy.


This will be a global market correction of epic proportions.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 18:43:58
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6656|Ireland

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Yes, but look at this...

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP.gif

In recent history, the first Bush and Reagan really increased our debt % of GDP.  Clinton decreased it, but then Bush #2 jumped it back up.
Your chart does not show that it was infact the GDP going down/leveling during the '80s recession that caused that upturn and not all from the debt raising.  Nor does it show the Internet boom during the clinton years and the refinancing of the Interest on the Debt that freed up more money to pour into the economy and increase the GDP under clinton. 

Your chart only shows people what you want them to see, I am not the straw man oh great and powerful OZ.
There is a good amount of lag between what each administration does and how long it takes to be reflective. It obviously ignores Congress as well.. you know, the people that actually write the checks . My point remains.. 99 percent of them suck.
The president approves the National Budget, thus tends to get it " his way ".  Regan made deals with the Devil and both the Dems and Repubs porked out during a recession with HIGH interest rates. 

Clinton era was great because the Republicans got into a pissing match with Clinton over spending and didn't pass his budget nor Clinton sign theirs thus shutting down the Fed for awhile.  When it did pass nobody got the normal pork in their diet and the military was FINALLY overhauled (be it stupidly) which was long over due.
2008-07-31 18:46:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina
I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
2008-07-31 18:48:15
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Tell me about these Reagan devil deals. .. keep it in the context of coming out of the Carter administration.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 18:48:46
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6656|Ireland

Turquoise wrote:

I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
Yeah, how I long for the Clinton era again.  Blow Jobs, Dead Lawyers, and Impeachment hearings, damn times were good back then.
2008-07-31 18:50:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
Yeah, how I long for the Clinton era again.  Blow Jobs, Dead Lawyers, and Impeachment hearings, damn times were good back then.
Entertainment at its finest...
2008-07-31 18:51:04
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
Which ones?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 18:51:30
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6656|Ireland

Kmarion wrote:

Tell me about these Reagan devil deals. .. keep it in the context of coming out of the Carter administration.
I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
2008-07-31 18:55:03
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
Which ones?
There was a continual push for conservative social agendas after the Republican Revolution.  The 90s were also the height of the Evangelical movement among the party.  It basically set the stage for misguided big government neoconservatism once Bush #2 entered office.

Abortion is one example.  They thankfully weren't able to go very far with it, but it was always on the table during debates.

Gays in the military was the most blatant and shameful one, with that pathetic excuse for a compromise that Clinton supported...  "don't ask, don't tell..."   Most mature nations allow gays in the military without any debate.  If someone wants to serve, their sexuality shouldn't be an issue unless they've committed a sex crime.
2008-07-31 18:55:24
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Tell me about these Reagan devil deals. .. keep it in the context of coming out of the Carter administration.
I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 18:57:47
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6656|Ireland

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Tell me about these Reagan devil deals. .. keep it in the context of coming out of the Carter administration.
I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
I just said he made a deal with the Devil.  I never said I supported the Devil.

I think Regan was the last Great President and one of the Top 5 of all time.  I only really fault him for giving Amnesty to illegals.
2008-07-31 18:58:55
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Tell me about these Reagan devil deals. .. keep it in the context of coming out of the Carter administration.
I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
Outspending the Soviets worked, but the costs were pretty high for us in terms of debt.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but we could have just let the Soviets cook their own goose over time with their terrible inability to handle their debt.
2008-07-31 19:00:24
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6656|Ireland

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I agree, Lotta.  Having a moderate Dem as president with a true small government conservative Congress was great.  The only part I didn't like was how conservative their social views often were.
Which ones?
There was a continual push for conservative social agendas after the Republican Revolution.  The 90s were also the height of the Evangelical movement among the party.  It basically set the stage for misguided big government neoconservatism once Bush #2 entered office.

Abortion is one example.  They thankfully weren't able to go very far with it, but it was always on the table during debates.

Gays in the military was the most blatant and shameful one, with that pathetic excuse for a compromise that Clinton supported...  "don't ask, don't tell..."   Most mature nations allow gays in the military without any debate.  If someone wants to serve, their sexuality shouldn't be an issue unless they've committed a sex crime.
You never served you etherbunny.

Military isn't a social experiment.  Everyone should not only talk, walk, and look the same, but above all should like pussy and be repelled by assholes.
2008-07-31 19:01:36
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:


I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
Outspending the Soviets worked, but the costs were pretty high for us in terms of debt.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but we could have just let the Soviets cook their own goose over time with their terrible inability to handle their debt.
I think you guys are missing my larger point. I could hammer any politician with fiscal irresponsibility.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 19:04:11
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.
Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
I just said he made a deal with the Devil.  I never said I supported the Devil.

I think Regan was the last Great President and one of the Top 5 of all time.  I only really fault him for giving Amnesty to illegals.
I fault him, but not as much as I fault the current round of amnesty. FFS, because of Reagan we now at least have a precedent (er guys, it doesn't work). What was that definition of insanity again?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 19:05:02
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Which ones?
There was a continual push for conservative social agendas after the Republican Revolution.  The 90s were also the height of the Evangelical movement among the party.  It basically set the stage for misguided big government neoconservatism once Bush #2 entered office.

Abortion is one example.  They thankfully weren't able to go very far with it, but it was always on the table during debates.

Gays in the military was the most blatant and shameful one, with that pathetic excuse for a compromise that Clinton supported...  "don't ask, don't tell..."   Most mature nations allow gays in the military without any debate.  If someone wants to serve, their sexuality shouldn't be an issue unless they've committed a sex crime.
You never served you etherbunny.

Military isn't a social experiment.  Everyone should not only talk, walk, and look the same, but above all should like pussy and be repelled by assholes.
If most of the First World can handle it, why can't we?
2008-07-31 19:06:04
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina
Reagan is vastly overrated, but then again, so is Kennedy.
2008-07-31 19:07:37
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.
Outspending the Soviets worked, but the costs were pretty high for us in terms of debt.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but we could have just let the Soviets cook their own goose over time with their terrible inability to handle their debt.
I think you guys are missing my larger point. I could hammer any politician with fiscal irresponsibility.
Not Ron Paul, but you could hammer him with reality.
2008-07-31 19:09:30
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There was a continual push for conservative social agendas after the Republican Revolution.  The 90s were also the height of the Evangelical movement among the party.  It basically set the stage for misguided big government neoconservatism once Bush #2 entered office.

Abortion is one example.  They thankfully weren't able to go very far with it, but it was always on the table during debates.

Gays in the military was the most blatant and shameful one, with that pathetic excuse for a compromise that Clinton supported...  "don't ask, don't tell..."   Most mature nations allow gays in the military without any debate.  If someone wants to serve, their sexuality shouldn't be an issue unless they've committed a sex crime.
You never served you etherbunny.

Military isn't a social experiment.  Everyone should not only talk, walk, and look the same, but above all should like pussy and be repelled by assholes.
If most of the First World can handle it, why can't we?
The scale. We need to improve the state level. For example, I'm sure you know how much we spend right now on health care per person.



I don't neccesarily "rate" presidents. Just compare them to the others. Kennedy and Reagan were at least leaders. The last two real leaders in my opinion.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 19:10:27
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7074|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Outspending the Soviets worked, but the costs were pretty high for us in terms of debt.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but we could have just let the Soviets cook their own goose over time with their terrible inability to handle their debt.
I think you guys are missing my larger point. I could hammer any politician with fiscal irresponsibility.
Not Ron Paul, but you could hammer him with reality.
That's part of the deal buddy. Anyone can come up with a grand scheme to fix problems. Getting them based in reality is the tricky part.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-07-31 19:12:23
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:


You never served you etherbunny.

Military isn't a social experiment.  Everyone should not only talk, walk, and look the same, but above all should like pussy and be repelled by assholes.
If most of the First World can handle it, why can't we?
The scale. We need to improve the state level. For example, I'm sure you know how much we spend right now on health care per person.



I don't neccesarily "rate" presidents. Just compare them to the others. Kennedy and Reagan were at least leaders. The last two real leaders in my opinion.
Clinton could lead too, but he just made a fool of himself with the Monica thing.  Had it not been for that mess, people would probably like him a lot more.
2008-07-31 19:12:33
13rin
Member
+977|6952

Kmarion wrote:

You should be thanking China. Guess what happens when they stop buying our bonds?
We stop importing their crap?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2008-07-31 19:13:32
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6878|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


I think you guys are missing my larger point. I could hammer any politician with fiscal irresponsibility.
Not Ron Paul, but you could hammer him with reality.
That's part of the deal buddy. Anyone can come up with a grand scheme to fix problems. Getting them based in reality is the tricky part.
The way I see it, Paul's got the right general idea.  He just needs to be a little more realistic about certain things.

 

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