BF2S Forums China Quaught Queating at Olympquics, dey dink dey are soo Quever.

It really isn't human nature to be patriotic Poseidon. How seriously indoctrinated and brainwashed is your reasoning and logic?

What so there's a genome in our DNA that makes us want to take up arms to defend the imaginary-lines around our landscape that define political 'borders'? Don't be ridiculous. The only sense of 'home' that I think we have in our psychology or nature is a simple sort of sentimentality and nostalgia for our original homeland. But truly I think we are a global species on a very small world with the same mentality irregardless of borders and countries. If you can 'prove' that we have patriotism "by nature" from an objective viewpoint then I'd be willing to read it and hear it. By objective I mean 'not of the opinion of an American; the most patriotic sort of citizen in the Western world'.a

If Britain got hit by a nuke there would be retaliation simply for the reason that it would be a crime against humanity. It wouldn't be a matter of defending the British pride or the British image. In this country the reaction really wouldn't be that patriotic- except perhaps in the more left-wing socialist areas of our media (such as the sensationalist tabloids that blow everything up into epic proportion). The majority of our society would simply react based on a sort of revenge or call for justice against the wrongdoers- not because our great beautiful and mighty country had been attacked. If you can't accept this opinion on British reaction from a British person then I can't really argue anymore can I. I'm talking science to a choir.

Uzique wrote:

It really isn't human nature to be patriotic Poseidon. How seriously indoctrinated and brainwashed is your reasoning and logic?

What so there's a genome in our DNA that makes us want to take up arms to defend the imaginary-lines around our landscape that define political 'borders'? Don't be ridiculous. The only sense of 'home' that I think we have in our psychology or nature is a simple sort of sentimentality and nostalgia for our original homeland. But truly I think we are a global species on a very small world with the same mentality irregardless of borders and countries. If you can 'prove' that we have patriotism "by nature" from an objective viewpoint then I'd be willing to read it and hear it. By objective I mean 'not of the opinion of an American; the most patriotic sort of citizen in the Western world'.a

If Britain got hit by a nuke there would be retaliation simply for the reason that it would be a crime against humanity. It wouldn't be a matter of defending the British pride or the British image. In this country the reaction really wouldn't be that patriotic- except perhaps in the more left-wing socialist areas of our media (such as the sensationalist tabloids that blow everything up into epic proportion). The majority of our society would simply react based on a sort of revenge or call for justice against the wrongdoers- not because our great beautiful and mighty country had been attacked. If you can't accept this opinion on British reaction from a British person then I can't really argue anymore can I. I'm talking science to a choir.

While I agree with most of what you said there, I do think it's human nature to be proud.  One of our greatest faults, but human nature nonetheless.  Patriotism, imo, is just another variant of pride, and humans do have a tendency to take pride and run with it.

Purely IMHO

Last edited by oChaos.Haze (2008-08-19 10:12:46)

Events in the American past... I really can't reason with you This topic is so far away from the original discussion now that I might as well just stop trying.

Americans think it's human nature to be patriotic because it has been inbred into their nature since the youngest age. In a country where the education system and family culture doesn't encourage huge pride in your own country and your national identity- there is no such thing as natural patriotism. Your entire culture and media system is one huge propaganda machine... not the dystopian dictatorial type of course, but none the less it's constantly hammering this idea of patriotism and American-pride into each and every citizen until it does become a sort of second nature. I've been to America 4-5 times and each time I go I am astounded by the patriotism and how much faith and pride people put in a ridiculous flag.

And Poseidon you can't really call me "naive" when I discuss terrorist events when you're passing expert-opinion on the Oklahoma City bombing when you were three years old at the time. Haha, irony. Let me guess though- you read up about it in the American media and on Wikipedia? Yeah, I'm an expert on everything that has a Wiki article as well!

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-19 10:18:12)

I heard Michael Phelps cheats too.  Apparently he eats a lot of broccoli and enchiladas before swimming.  Do your maths.

I was just 13 when 9/11 happened, but that doesn't really affect my opinion when it comes to patriotism. What's wrong with patriotism? Are you fucking kidding? What are the positive outcomes of blind patriotism other than wars and conflicts? Countries can have a great culture and a great public attitude without the mindless need to worship a flag or a legislative document. Patriotism is basically just another form of religion- only this time you're worshipping something that's even more corrupt and fallible than a religious church (and that's really saying something!). I can really live without patriotism, thanks a lot. Please be quiet about 9/11 though, I think you overstate how much the rest of the world actually cares all these years on- and it's not the only example of patriotism in modern history! Just look at the Nazi party and all of their ideals, another huge positive influence! Patriotism hasn't really changed much in terms of its nature has it over all the years... from one pointless pride-driven war to another.

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-19 10:32:11)

Poseidon wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Lol, where did I say the US is superior to other countries? Why do you always add that in? I never mention that and yet you always add that in like you think I think that.

You as US not necessarily you.

Poseidon wrote:

You can root for China, I don't mind. But if you're going to bash the US and accuse the US's athletes of cheating and not root for them because of their "ego", then you shouldn't root for China either. It's simply and quite honestly 100% hypocritical.

Read my posts more carefully, they might be confusing sometimes but don't make things up saying I said US is cheating.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p2238273

Yeah, right. The topic's question is "What's the US's secret to winning gold medals" and you say "Marion Jones knows", insinuating that we win because of doping/cheating.

Don't try to fall back on it now.

Oh yes I wont back down for this one. We all know she was caught cheating. Don't close your eyes. I will say that for every American/or to people of other nationalities if they got caught cheating. I said that for Marion and not for the whole USA.

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

jord wrote:

Stop using words when I don't know what they mean. I'll assume Nationalism is what it means...

"If not worse"? Lol, You guys are the worst for it. If anything most of the English here are very humbling and calm about winning, like most people in this country.

It's like extreme nationalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

Don't bullshit me, Jord. I've been on here long enough to see the "who would win US Marines or SAS" threads in which both sides came out fighting equally.

That thread was a reply to the American made "Who would win, The entire British army of 1776 or 100 Us marines". We never, ever start it. We just call you up on it.

Anyway you just keep posting you youtube clip of flags and jets then...

Thats just another of those "USA>all" threads/posts.

Last edited by .Sup (2008-08-19 11:41:36)

Poseidon wrote:

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jord totally nailed the comparison.

When we were attacked (seeing as that was NY's most patriotic moment)- no one turned it into a patriot parade over here. We were quiet, downfallen, and most of all we just got the fuck on with it and let the politicians do their speaking and what not. There wasn't mass upset and crying in the streets- there wasn't flagwaving and cheering our politicians/mayors in the months following the attacks... we just have an entirely different attitude to you Yanks. And really if we were attacked on a 9/11 scale we still wouldn't have widespread patriotism or a call to arms like you Americans did. Why is that idea so hard for your narrowminded brain to take onboard? We are not a patriotic people. It's possible to have a modest and quiet national pride without needing to wave flags, shout a lot and several wars on small undefendable countries.

And I'm not choosing to support China exclusively because Americans cheat. There is no hypocrisy in my choice of favourite-nation. I don't want America to win because a vast majority of your athletes are arrogant jock-types; they show no humility or real decency whether they win Gold or whether they take a Bronze- they always seem very disrespectful and rude in comparison to other countries. China has won lots of Golds and I never see their athletes being so over-the-top in celebration in comparison. But I guess your reasoning for that is because they're all basically mine-slaves to the totalitarian system and have no joy or happiness in their lives whatsoever .

On the scale of 9/11.

You also didn't have two of your biggest icons destroyed. You also didn't have passengers overtake a plane with people who they thought had a bomb and had boxcutters and knives. You also didn't have part of your military headquarters destroyed. You also didn't have to see people jumping from a building to spare themselves from dying of smoke inhalation. Please, don't even try to compare 7/7 to 9/11.

Arrogant jock types? Did you see what Michael Phelps did when he won his 8th gold? First thing he said was "I couldn't have done it without my teammates" or something to the sort. Arrogant jock types. Puh-leeeease.


Yes, the attacks from the Irish were totally equivilent to 9/11. Excuse me.

They were totally equivalent. 2000 dead and lots more maimed and injured. That's comparable, so don't even try to downplay the IRA attacks. Not that I'm going to start throwing around numbers of people killed to win an argument. We've had more people killed and injured by terrorists, whether you want to respect that or not is up to you.

And we still carried on about our lives.

While I admit that I don't know much about what the IRA has done, I'm not downplaying them. I'm just saying.

Did they destroy two of your biggest icons?

Was it the first time you'd been attacked by a foreign enemy since 1941?

Or any of the other things I said in my response to Uzique? No.

Why do you think the Timothy McVeigh bombing didn't spark patriotism? Give or take it's from a domestic terrorist, but still.

"2 our icons" cmon is it about the people being dead or the two buildings? You talk like those two skyscrapers and the pride of these "2 icons" are more important than the lives of people that lost their lives there.

NantanCochise wrote:

jord wrote:

Stop using words when I don't know what they mean. I'll assume Nationalism is what it means...

"If not worse"? Lol, You guys are the worst for it. If anything most of the English here are very humbling and calm about winning, like most people in this country.

LOL, bullshit, I lived in London for a total of 4 years. All I ever heard was how great the English were. Every time you guys win at something, everyone had to hear about it. The English have the biggest ego's Ive ever en-counted. Humble, my ass!!!

They were probably doing it for the benefit of the yank in the room. (you).

NantanCochise wrote:

jord wrote:

NantanCochise wrote:

LOL, bullshit, I lived in London for a total of 4 years. All I ever heard was how great the English were. Every time you guys win at something, everyone had to hear about it. The English have the biggest ego's Ive ever en-counted. Humble, my ass!!!

They were probably doing it for the benefit of the yank in the room. (you).

Who said I'm American!!! LOL...

Dunno it just said it in your from... You could be like one of 3 nationalities...

You obviously get around a lot.

A sporting victory and taking sports competitively is different than patriotism. OK so supporting your national side may be a form of national-pride, and I admit openly that football fans in the United Kingdom take it FAR too seriously... but I still don't consider it on the same level as indoctrinated-since-childhood and blind-faith. A sporting competition and a will to win a game is a bit different from a national pride that, when injured, sparks international wars and shows of force.

I take it you don't agree with the way China controls its athletes?

.Sup wrote:

NantanCochise wrote:

Yeah too much actually, for the record I'm half American, half Portuguese.

Off topic: Do the Portuguese consider Brazil rivals in football or is it just another match for them when they play against eachother? Was always interest in things like that.

Kind of, people in Portugal always root for Brazil unless we are playing them. Portugal has also beaten Brazil whenever we play. Well they were always friendlies. The last time we had a real match was in 1966 world cup, where we won and in the final of the under 21 world cup in 1993(I think).

.Sup wrote:

Oh yes I wont back down for this one. We all know she was caught cheating. Don't close your eyes. I will say that for every American/or to people of other nationalities if they got caught cheating. I said that for Marion and not for the whole USA.

Thats just another of those "USA>all" threads/posts.

Where the fuck am I denying it?

And do you even READ? Did you read AT ALL what I said? That thread WAS NOT a "USA>All thread". AT ALL. You and jord might like to think it was, but it wasn't. It was the Brits who turned it into one.

.Sup wrote:

+1 to you sir! You have completely understood me. See Poseidon he reads but you just wanna believe something in this case you wanted to believe"Sup says USA cheats" even tho I haven't even implied to that except in the case of Marion J. who was caught cheating. Even now when China is caught cheating I won't deny that but I'd still like to see them win overall. Looking at the medals its clear they deserved it.

Edit:spelling(a bit high and drunk atm but ready to debate)

So typical of .Sup. He could have disagreed with your post completely but if he disagreed with me, it's "OMG +1 LOVE YOU<333333333". You implied EVERY BIT that Americans are dopers and that's why they win gold, and you've been giving shit reasons for your reasons not to root for America. Of course you don't have to root for America, but if you're not going to and tell people that you're not - back up your statements.

.Sup wrote:

"2 our icons" cmon is it about the people being dead or the two buildings? You talk like those two skyscrapers and the pride of these "2 icons" are more important than the lives of people that lost their lives there.

Don't talk about shit you don't know about. Those buildings represented our financial wealth, our freedom, and so much to people. And where the fuck do I say that it's more important than people's lives? You're so fucking backwards when it comes to things. You tell me that I make stuff up but that's exactly what you're doing. You're saying if Big Ben or Parliament wasn't blown up even if nobody was inside, nobody would care?

Fucking ridiculous.

You tell me not to "make up shit", yet you do the same exact thing yourself. If you're going to debate someone, it's probably good to avoid a situation where you'd be a pot calling the kettle black.

I have nothing against you, regardless of what you might think - I'm simply calling you out for things you've said. I'd do the same if anybody had the same amount of Anti-US foam coming out the sides of their mouth.

Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-19 14:49:12)