Fuck off I started it. Sup and you were arguing and I dropped in. It wasn't the brits that turned it into one at all, Sup isn't even from remotely near here...Poseidon wrote:
Where the fuck am I denying it?.Sup wrote:
Oh yes I wont back down for this one. We all know she was caught cheating. Don't close your eyes. I will say that for every American/or to people of other nationalities if they got caught cheating. I said that for Marion and not for the whole USA.
Thats just another of those "USA>all" threads/posts.
And do you even READ? Did you read AT ALL what I said? That thread WAS NOT a "USA>All thread". AT ALL. You and jord might like to think it was, but it wasn't. It was the Brits who turned it into one.So typical of .Sup. He could have disagreed with your post completely but if he disagreed with me, it's "OMG +1 LOVE YOU<333333333". You implied EVERY BIT that Americans are dopers and that's why they win gold, and you've been giving shit reasons for your reasons not to root for America. Of course you don't have to root for America, but if you're not going to and tell people that you're not - back up your statements..Sup wrote:
+1 to you sir! You have completely understood me. See Poseidon he reads but you just wanna believe something in this case you wanted to believe"Sup says USA cheats" even tho I haven't even implied to that except in the case of Marion J. who was caught cheating. Even now when China is caught cheating I won't deny that but I'd still like to see them win overall. Looking at the medals its clear they deserved it.
Edit:spelling(a bit high and drunk atm but ready to debate)Don't talk about shit you don't know about. Those buildings represented our financial wealth, our freedom, and so much to people. And where the fuck do I say that it's more important than people's lives? You're so fucking backwards when it comes to things. You tell me that I make stuff up but that's exactly what you're doing. You're saying if Big Ben or Parliament wasn't blown up even if nobody was inside, nobody would care?.Sup wrote:
"2 our icons" cmon is it about the people being dead or the two buildings? You talk like those two skyscrapers and the pride of these "2 icons" are more important than the lives of people that lost their lives there.
Fucking ridiculous.
You tell me not to "make up shit", yet you do the same exact thing yourself. If you're going to debate someone, it's probably good to avoid a situation where you'd be a pot calling the kettle black.
I have nothing against you, regardless of what you might think - I'm simply calling you out for things you've said. I'd do the same if anybody had the same amount of Anti-US foam coming out the sides of their mouth.
Uzique: Why do you assume that the only thing that can come from a love for one's country are "international wars and shows of force"?
Patriotism isn't about love of a flag or a piece of paper. It's about belief in and defense of the ideals upon which your country is built and operates. It is often manifested via protection of a symbol (the flag), because that symbol embodies the ideals and as such is held in some reverence by those who believe in and adhere to those ideals. The defense or admiration of the object itself is not patriotism.
And unless you've been born and raised here, you can't possibly speak with any authority on what we are "indoctrinated-since-childhood" with. There is no "blind faith". In fact, it is reinforced throughout our schooling that blind faith in government is directly in contrast with the tenets of our government (checks and balances).
Wars aren't started over patriotism. They are started over interests. The two have nothing to do with each other.
Patriotism isn't about love of a flag or a piece of paper. It's about belief in and defense of the ideals upon which your country is built and operates. It is often manifested via protection of a symbol (the flag), because that symbol embodies the ideals and as such is held in some reverence by those who believe in and adhere to those ideals. The defense or admiration of the object itself is not patriotism.
And unless you've been born and raised here, you can't possibly speak with any authority on what we are "indoctrinated-since-childhood" with. There is no "blind faith". In fact, it is reinforced throughout our schooling that blind faith in government is directly in contrast with the tenets of our government (checks and balances).
Wars aren't started over patriotism. They are started over interests. The two have nothing to do with each other.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Is it so hard to accept that China beat you at some events?
go night nightMGS3_GrayFox wrote:
Is it so hard to accept that China beat you at some events?
i'll read you a bedtime story
Poseidon I don't wanna have this kind of debates with you again. It never ends well. All I wanted to say in this topic is I acknowledge Chinese are cheating but I would still like their athletes to win overall. Period.
Soo what did I miss?
#rekt
So you support cheating. Now there is a good character trait to proudly display..Sup wrote:
Poseidon I don't wanna have this kind of debates with you again. It never ends well. All I wanted to say in this topic is I acknowledge Chinese are cheating but I would still like their athletes to win overall. Period.
Do you like theives and wish for them to succeed too?
Are you lying?.Sup wrote:
lol whoever cheated got expelled. Its not like they all cheated.Lotta_Drool wrote:
So you support cheating. Now there is a good character trait to proudly display..Sup wrote:
Poseidon I don't wanna have this kind of debates with you again. It never ends well. All I wanted to say in this topic is I acknowledge Chinese are cheating but I would still like their athletes to win overall. Period.
Do you like theives and wish for them to succeed too?
Cuz if you are it is ok with me, I like liers and hope they succeed with their lies. /sup
Wow we are getting personal are we? What part of "I support Chinese athletes to win" don't you understand? I know you are a pro-american but some actually like support other countries than US.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Are you lying?.Sup wrote:
lol whoever cheated got expelled. Its not like they all cheated.Lotta_Drool wrote:
So you support cheating. Now there is a good character trait to proudly display.
Do you like theives and wish for them to succeed too?
Cuz if you are it is ok with me, I like liers and hope they succeed with their lies. /sup
The OP is about China openly cheating in gymnastics. I don't know what YOU are talking about anymore, but that is what the thread is about..Sup wrote:
Wow we are getting personal are we? What part of "I support Chinese athletes to win" don't you understand? I know you are a pro-american but some actually like support other countries than US.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Are you lying?.Sup wrote:
lol whoever cheated got expelled. Its not like they all cheated.
Cuz if you are it is ok with me, I like liars and hope they succeed with their lies. /sup
Are you saying you support only the Chinese Athletes that don't cheat? Perhaps you should clarify wtf you are talking about instead of playing rope a dope and looking stupid.
Some know what I'm talking about. Scroll back and you might see the answer.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The OP is about China openly cheating in gymnastics. I don't know what YOU are talking about anymore, but that is what the thread is about..Sup wrote:
Wow we are getting personal are we? What part of "I support Chinese athletes to win" don't you understand? I know you are a pro-american but some actually like support other countries than US.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Are you lying?
Cuz if you are it is ok with me, I like liars and hope they succeed with their lies. /sup
Are you saying you support only the Chinese Athletes that don't cheat? Perhaps you should clarify wtf you are talking about instead of playing rope a dope and looking stupid.
I already did. You think it is ok for China to cheat and support them in it..Sup wrote:
Some know what I'm talking about. Scroll back and you might see the answer.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The OP is about China openly cheating in gymnastics. I don't know what YOU are talking about anymore, but that is what the thread is about..Sup wrote:
Wow we are getting personal are we? What part of "I support Chinese athletes to win" don't you understand? I know you are a pro-american but some actually like support other countries than US.
Are you saying you support only the Chinese Athletes that don't cheat? Perhaps you should clarify wtf you are talking about instead of playing rope a dope and looking stupid.
Goody goody for you. You posted stupid stuff and got attention.
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I already did. You think it is ok for China to cheat and support them in it..Sup wrote:
Some know what I'm talking about. Scroll back and you might see the answer.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The OP is about China openly cheating in gymnastics. I don't know what YOU are talking about anymore, but that is what the thread is about.
Are you saying you support only the Chinese Athletes that don't cheat? Perhaps you should clarify wtf you are talking about instead of playing rope a dope and looking stupid.
Goody goody for you. You posted stupid stuff and got attention.
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-20 10:45:14)
Shit, if you agree with me I must be wrong.Poseidon wrote:
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I already did. You think it is ok for China to cheat and support them in it..Sup wrote:
Some know what I'm talking about. Scroll back and you might see the answer.
Goody goody for you. You posted stupid stuff and got attention.
and at his signature.
sorry Sup, I must have misunderstood what you were saying.
Genocide in Slovenia? Oh you mean the type perpetrated by Tito whilst the US government supported him and helped fund him? Way to assume the hypocrit-pedastal position.
Oh and I'll reiterate his point: he supports the Chinese athletes because they are talented, dedicated and humble winners - he doesn't agree with the doping and cheating - but it is in his view that the doping and cheating are external pressures and influences applied by their coaches and the Chinese state as a whole. The ambitions, drives and talents of the athletes are still worth applauding and respect. I think that pretty much sums up his attitude and his reasons for supporting Chinese athletes (not the Chinese state or nation as a whole).
And as I've chipped in earlier, all you people supporting the USA are hardly backing a nation with the cleanest track record. Every Olympic nation has had its fair share of cheaters and rule-breakers, just get on with it and support the nation/athletes that you want.
Oh and I'll reiterate his point: he supports the Chinese athletes because they are talented, dedicated and humble winners - he doesn't agree with the doping and cheating - but it is in his view that the doping and cheating are external pressures and influences applied by their coaches and the Chinese state as a whole. The ambitions, drives and talents of the athletes are still worth applauding and respect. I think that pretty much sums up his attitude and his reasons for supporting Chinese athletes (not the Chinese state or nation as a whole).
And as I've chipped in earlier, all you people supporting the USA are hardly backing a nation with the cleanest track record. Every Olympic nation has had its fair share of cheaters and rule-breakers, just get on with it and support the nation/athletes that you want.
Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-20 10:43:57)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You have clearly misunderstood what I was saying. But theres no point in going through it again is there.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Shit, if you agree with me I must be wrong.Poseidon wrote:
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I already did. You think it is ok for China to cheat and support them in it.
Goody goody for you. You posted stupid stuff and got attention.
and at his signature.
sorry Sup, I must have misunderstood what you were saying.
"Area". That whole area's got a pretty big history of it. But that's not the point/nor is it involved in this thread. That's just me rambling.Uzique wrote:
Genocide in Slovenia? Confusing them with Serbia?
Oh and I'll reiterate his point: he supports the Chinese athletes because they are talented, dedicated and humble winners - he doesn't agree with the doping and cheating - but it is in his view that the doping and cheating are external pressures and influences applied by their coaches and the Chinese state as a whole. The ambitions, drives and talents of the athletes are still worth applauding and respect. I think that pretty much sums up his attitude and his reasons for supporting Chinese athletes (not the Chinese state or nation as a whole).
And as I've chipped in earlier, all you people supporting the USA are hardly backing a nation with the cleanest track record. Every Olympic nation has had its fair share of cheaters and rule-breakers, just get on with it and support the nation/athletes that you want.
The whole argument is about not supporting the USA for one reason and then supporting China when they do the same exact thing.
If he's going to express his points, perhaps he should do so in a clear manner - because so far you're the only one who's been moderately able to.
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-20 10:45:56)
I thought its about Chinese athletes cheating. But it has to be about US don't it, otherwise its not interesting.Poseidon wrote:
"Area". That whole area's got a pretty big history of it. But that's not the point/nor is it involved in this thread. That's just me rambling.Uzique wrote:
Genocide in Slovenia? Confusing them with Serbia?
Oh and I'll reiterate his point: he supports the Chinese athletes because they are talented, dedicated and humble winners - he doesn't agree with the doping and cheating - but it is in his view that the doping and cheating are external pressures and influences applied by their coaches and the Chinese state as a whole. The ambitions, drives and talents of the athletes are still worth applauding and respect. I think that pretty much sums up his attitude and his reasons for supporting Chinese athletes (not the Chinese state or nation as a whole).
And as I've chipped in earlier, all you people supporting the USA are hardly backing a nation with the cleanest track record. Every Olympic nation has had its fair share of cheaters and rule-breakers, just get on with it and support the nation/athletes that you want.
The whole argument is about not supporting the USA for one reason and then supporting China when they do the same exact thing.
If he's going to express his points, perhaps he should do so in a clear manner - because so far you're the only one who's been moderately able to.
Ahhh, shit. Now Sup is agreeing with me so I must be wrong. You two need to quit messing with people, now I don't know what to think..Sup wrote:
You have clearly misunderstood what I was saying. But theres no point in going through it again is there.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Shit, if you agree with me I must be wrong.Poseidon wrote:
I'm glad someone else sees it the way I do.
and at his signature.
sorry Sup, I must have misunderstood what you were saying.
He doesn't have to support the USA, the fact you're arguing and debating with him simply because he doesn't support the Americans is fucking ridiculous. He likes China's athletes and thinks they are talented/athletic people- leave him to it! If I was rooting for someone like Germany would you still have the same gripes? Everyone is guilty of the exact same fucking thing! Every 'big' Olympic nation has cheated at some point or other in some event or other... no one can take a superior stance on this matter, so just support your team and hush up!
And the Balkan "area" has a troubled past sure- sometimes even involving genocide and secularism and the like. But who the hell are you to hold that against .Sup in an argument when you systematically wiped out millions of Native Indians and original inhabitants of the North American continent? It just makes the hypocrisy so much worse... it was bad enough when you criticised him for a genocide committed by a US-backed dictator. I think you really actually do need history lessons, or at least a big wake-up call; "No one country is more angelic than the other!"- neither in a political or sporting sense.
And the Balkan "area" has a troubled past sure- sometimes even involving genocide and secularism and the like. But who the hell are you to hold that against .Sup in an argument when you systematically wiped out millions of Native Indians and original inhabitants of the North American continent? It just makes the hypocrisy so much worse... it was bad enough when you criticised him for a genocide committed by a US-backed dictator. I think you really actually do need history lessons, or at least a big wake-up call; "No one country is more angelic than the other!"- neither in a political or sporting sense.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
It's not because he doesn't support the Americans. Do you honestly not get it? Jesus Christ. It's about not rooting for America giving the reason that he thinks that they're dopers and yet supporting the Chinese even though they do just as bad things. THAT'S where the hypocrisy lies.Uzique wrote:
He doesn't have to support the USA, the fact you're arguing and debating with him simply because he doesn't support the Americans is fucking ridiculous. He likes China's athletes and thinks they are talented/athletic people- leave him to it! If I was rooting for someone like Germany would you still have the same gripes? Everyone is guilty of the exact same fucking thing! Every 'big' Olympic nation has cheated at some point or other in some event or other... no one can take a superior stance on this matter, so just support your team and hush up!
And the Balkan "area" has a troubled past sure- sometimes even involving genocide and secularism and the like. But who the hell are you to hold that against .Sup in an argument when you systematically wiped out millions of Native Indians and original inhabitants of the North American continent? It just makes the hypocrisy so much worse... it was bad enough when you criticised him for a genocide committed by a US-backed dictator. I think you really actually do need history lessons, or at least a big wake-up call; "No one country is more angelic than the other!"- neither in a political or sporting sense.
Well technically actually, I didn't because my family's from Scotland and only arrived here on Ellis Island in the 1910's.
Where did I say the US was angelic either? Why do you and .Sup both assume I think that? I never said that at all. Big difference between the genocides as well - one happened within the past 2 decades.
Again, that's a different argument for a different thread though.
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-20 10:55:38)
You're are the one not getting it.Poseidon wrote:
It's not because he doesn't support the Americans. Do you honestly not get it? Jesus Christ. It's about not rooting for America giving the reason that he thinks that they're dopers and yet supporting the Chinese even though they do just as bad things. THAT'S where the hypocrisy lies.Uzique wrote:
He doesn't have to support the USA, the fact you're arguing and debating with him simply because he doesn't support the Americans is fucking ridiculous. He likes China's athletes and thinks they are talented/athletic people- leave him to it! If I was rooting for someone like Germany would you still have the same gripes? Everyone is guilty of the exact same fucking thing! Every 'big' Olympic nation has cheated at some point or other in some event or other... no one can take a superior stance on this matter, so just support your team and hush up!
And the Balkan "area" has a troubled past sure- sometimes even involving genocide and secularism and the like. But who the hell are you to hold that against .Sup in an argument when you systematically wiped out millions of Native Indians and original inhabitants of the North American continent? It just makes the hypocrisy so much worse... it was bad enough when you criticised him for a genocide committed by a US-backed dictator. I think you really actually do need history lessons, or at least a big wake-up call; "No one country is more angelic than the other!"- neither in a political or sporting sense.
Well technically actually, I didn't because my family's from Scotland and only arrived here on Ellis Island in the 1910's.
Where did I say the US was angelic either? Why do you and .Sup both assume I think that? I never said that at all. Big difference between the genocides as well - one happened within the past 2 decades.
Again, that's a different argument for a different thread though.
Why did you involve your country into this anyway? If you go through the posts again you will see you're the one started derailing this thread. I gave my opinion and you attacked me.
So the fact that the American genocide occured in the early stages of colonisation makes it all alright? I guess the Balkan genocides were far worse than the Nazi Holocaust because they happened more recently? What a flawed and illogical approach to history- I can assure you America killed a grossly larger number of innocent people than any Eastern European dictator ever did... but I digress.
I think the difference between American cheating and Chinese cheating (and possibly the reason he doesn't see any harm in siding with China) is that American athletes are free of political/coaching pressures and are free democratic men (etc.etc. insert lols here), whereas the Chinese athletes are still great sports-people despite the (likely) possibility that their trainers/coaches and State have pressured them into winning. This is all just a guess of course... at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anybody regardless of who supports who, and for what reasons. Even if they may appear hypocritical or contradictive, no one needs to justify their choice in football club do they? It's a game, they're just sports. Fly your flag and shout at the TV... being overly political and 'serious business' about the whole thing.
I think the difference between American cheating and Chinese cheating (and possibly the reason he doesn't see any harm in siding with China) is that American athletes are free of political/coaching pressures and are free democratic men (etc.etc. insert lols here), whereas the Chinese athletes are still great sports-people despite the (likely) possibility that their trainers/coaches and State have pressured them into winning. This is all just a guess of course... at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anybody regardless of who supports who, and for what reasons. Even if they may appear hypocritical or contradictive, no one needs to justify their choice in football club do they? It's a game, they're just sports. Fly your flag and shout at the TV... being overly political and 'serious business' about the whole thing.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
13 pages for this? lol
I thought it was common knowledge, but apparently I was wrong. So let me put you out of your misery: All the athletes who want to be competitive nowadays get doped up from an early age.
So relax and enjoy the games. Since everyone is guilty of doping, again those who win are the best
I thought it was common knowledge, but apparently I was wrong. So let me put you out of your misery: All the athletes who want to be competitive nowadays get doped up from an early age.
So relax and enjoy the games. Since everyone is guilty of doping, again those who win are the best
ƒ³
Where did I say that? Being of Jewish descent why on Earth would I think that? I'm just saying - they happened a bit more recently than the Native American ones. I'm not trying to take out the Rammunition "Sure, the UK committed atrocities, but they happened longer ago so it's okay" way out, so stop insinuating that I am.Uzique wrote:
So the fact that the American genocide occured in the early stages of colonisation makes it all alright? I guess the Balkan genocides were far worse than the Nazi Holocaust because they happened more recently? What a flawed and illogical approach to history- I can assure you America killed a grossly larger number of innocent people than any Eastern European dictator ever did... but I digress.
I think the difference between American cheating and Chinese cheating (and possibly the reason he doesn't see any harm in siding with China) is that American athletes are free of political/coaching pressures and are free democratic men (etc.etc. insert lols here), whereas the Chinese athletes are still great sports-people despite the (likely) possibility that their trainers/coaches and State have pressured them into winning. This is all just a guess of course... at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anybody regardless of who supports who, and for what reasons. Even if they may appear hypocritical or contradictive, no one needs to justify their choice in football club do they? It's a game, they're just sports. Fly your flag and shout at the TV... being overly political and 'serious business' about the whole thing.
FREE OF POLITICAL/COACHING PRESSURES? You've got to be fucking joking me, Uzique. You don't think that if Michael Phelps's relay team were to lose that final race for him, there'd be no pressure? You don't think these athletes are pressured to win so bad because if they do, they get hundreds of thousands of dollars in endorsements? Sure, it's on free will as opposed to china - but there's still PLENTY of pressure that comes from both coaches and the political sides of it.