Irony?

2008-08-16 13:10:18

#51

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Cuba is so successful its healthcare system is worse than ours. It's also so successful that it ranks #51 on the HDI. That's slightly more successful than Mexico. Wow...

Oh yeah... the Cubans that float up here on rafts... They have many stories of success to tell about Cuba too. They're very successful swimmers, if nothing else.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-08-16 13:13:24)

2008-08-16 13:13:05

#52

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

Can you be any more stupid?

Uzique wrote:
was a success

WAS a success before you started the strictest embargo in today's modern world and conducted two decades worth of terrorism and subversion tactics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuban_Project

Way to go use modern statistics without looking at WHY the numbers are that way. Cuba was a success (and I used the past-tense the first time around for a reason, if you had cared to notice) until you guys basically obliterated it in an effort to uphold the popular idea that Communism and Socialism equals nothing but epic fail.

Look, here's a 'statistical fact' for you that will maybe help you open your eyes a little; The Cuban Democracy Act, pushed through Congress in 1992 that made the embargo even tighter and stricter than ever before- banning all foreign-based US subsidiaries from trading with Cuba; gives the legal right to seize Cuban cargo if it is in US waters; it was so against the rulings of international law that even George Bush vetoed it. But no, it is now in place and ever since then it has caused one of the biggest human rights issues in the Americas. Poverty, starvation, the deaths of many many people. But you're all too busy crying about Tibet, amirite?

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-16 13:17:22)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-16 13:15:54

#53

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

The embargo doesn't prevent Cuba from trading with everyone else.

2008-08-16 13:17:46

#54

.Sup: be nice; +2,646|6873|The Twilight Zone

sergeriver wrote:
This is like Ellen accusing someone else of being a lesbian.

lol QFT

https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png

2008-08-16 13:23:09

#55

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

If your embargo on Cuba wasn't a problem and wasn't against international law (i.e. a major fucking concern) then the world would not have horrifyingly denounced it when it was pushed through during Clinton's Presidential campaign. Every US ally at the time spoke against it- and in fact in the UN every single member state condemned it except 2. Guess who? The USA and Israel. Quelle surprise!

Sure they can trade with other countries, but the embargo cut off about 90% of Cuba's food and medicine aid. Health journals have explained the effects very clearly; the medical system which was very good in quality is now collapsing, malnutrition is developing nationally, there is a severe shortage of medicines and diseases are cropping up that haven't been found since Japanese prison-camps in World War II. It's fine if you guys don't want to accept responsibility or confront any of these 'non-issues' in your mainstream media and press... but my God do not criticize and satirise Cuba's successes before US involvement.

Turquoise wrote:
Oh yeah... the Cubans that float up here on rafts... They have many stories of success to tell about Cuba too. They're very successful swimmers, if nothing else.

You are more than ignorant really, I find it laughable. Please do some reading into this, you're clearly under-par on knowledge. I'll repost the two references to this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuban_Project and the Cuban Democracy Act (1992) because you clearly didn't read them the first time around. I guess their poor quality of life isn't a result at all of acts such as:

"Over thirty different plans were considered under the Cuban Project, some of which were carried out. The plans varied in their efficacy and intention, from propagandistic purposes to effective disruption of the Cuban government and economy. These included the use of American Green Berets, destruction of Cuban sugar crops, and mining of harbors."

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-16 13:26:01)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-16 13:27:49

#56

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Where have I defended the embargo? Didn't I just post that I want it ended?

2008-08-16 13:30:37

#57

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

Turquoise wrote:
Where have I defended the embargo? Didn't I just post that I want it ended?

Your sarcastic comments about the Cuban quality of life and making jokes about the human-rights crisis there (a topic that you heroically defend in threads concerning China's approach to Tibet and the Uyghurs, interestingly) are self-contradictive. If you truly want the embargo ended then you wouldn't be such a bigot in your view of Cuba's 'success' and history as a country. The USA is wholly responsible for totalling Cuba, and this isn't a result of their 'aggravation' through the Missile Crisis either... as I said earlier, you guys were preparing to invade Cuba and take out Castro before he even had Soviet alignment (he was considered anti-Communist even at one point).

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-16 13:34:14

#58

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
Where have I defended the embargo? Didn't I just post that I want it ended?
Your sarcastic comments about the Cuban quality of life and making jokes about the human-rights crisis there (a topic that you heroically defend in threads concerning China's approach to Tibet and the Uyghurs, interestingly) are self-contradictive. If you truly want the embargo ended then you wouldn't be such a bigot in your view of Cuba's 'success' and history as a country. The USA is wholly responsible for totalling Cuba, and this isn't a result of their 'aggravation' through the Missile Crisis either... as I said earlier, you guys were preparing to invade Cuba and take out Castro before he even had Soviet alignment (he was considered anti-Communist even at one point).

Fair enough... I dropped the human rights thing in the other thread. So when should America start up our own expropriation of all private property to the state if we're using pre-embargo Cuba as a measure of success?

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-08-16 13:34:39)

2008-08-16 13:43:51

#59

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

It's not an objective measure of economical success, it's merely a contrasting comparison between pre-embargo Cuba and post-embargo Cuba. If you can't see that the fundamental reason you Americans began bullying Cuba was because they were a risk of a "bad apple ruining the barrell", you know a demonstration that independance from American-corporate interests and international debts isn't such a bad thing after all. That was simply unacceptable to your government, that likes to see and use the rest of the Americas as some sort of cheap-labour backyard; a playground for your corporations to play in and rinse immense profits out of resource-deals and labour exploitation. If you don't understand my basic point there then you kind of miss my entire message.

You seem to look down on their healthcare system and state of life nowadays (and of course that's because your quality of life is better than theirs) but you seem to have forgot the history that caused such a state of affairs.

And it all relates back to the threads message of American hypocrisy and irony... Iraq is a modern example but there are countless other examples closer to home in the central/south American continent of you guys clearly undermining the democratic wish of a nation's people in order to serve your own self-interests. Bullying and threats are just the way you fellas do that particular business- as well as the CIA's covert operations of course which become more and more clear as freedom of information and declassification of government documents occurs.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-16 14:15:37

#60

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Well, we can definitely agree that the shit we've been doing in South America has been bad.

2008-08-16 16:23:16

#61

TrollmeaT: Aspiring Objectivist; +492|7092|Colorado

Communism and Socialism equals nothing but epic fail.
correct.

2008-08-16 17:47:07

#62

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6831|'Murka

Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Russia haven't been asking/pressurising anyone else for help in Georgia, and their population hasn't been making a mockery out of any country that refused to join them in the invasion. (Freedom fries). So maybe that's why they don't hate Russia as much.

That wasn't our population...it was our Congress. Our population thinks they're a bunch of douches.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-08-16 17:50:04

#63

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6831|'Murka

Uzique wrote:
The USA is wholly responsible for totalling Cuba, and this isn't a result of their 'aggravation' through the Missile Crisis either... as I said earlier, you guys were preparing to invade Cuba and take out Castro before he even had Soviet alignment (he was considered anti-Communist even at one point).

Oh Jesus. Another one who blames the situation in Cuba on the US embargo. The US is one country. There are hundreds of others who could trade with Cuba. To blame the US for Cuba's problems is utterly ridiculous. Blame Cuba's inept government.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-08-16 17:57:15

#64

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7177|Argentina

FEOS wrote:
Uzique wrote:
The USA is wholly responsible for totalling Cuba, and this isn't a result of their 'aggravation' through the Missile Crisis either... as I said earlier, you guys were preparing to invade Cuba and take out Castro before he even had Soviet alignment (he was considered anti-Communist even at one point).
Oh Jesus. Another one who blames the situation in Cuba on the US embargo. The US is one country. There are hundreds of others who could trade with Cuba. To blame the US for Cuba's problems is utterly ridiculous. Blame Cuba's inept government.

And with the embargo you gave Castro the perfect excuse to place the blame of Cuba's problems on the US.

2008-08-16 20:30:47

#65

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6831|'Murka

sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Uzique wrote:
The USA is wholly responsible for totalling Cuba, and this isn't a result of their 'aggravation' through the Missile Crisis either... as I said earlier, you guys were preparing to invade Cuba and take out Castro before he even had Soviet alignment (he was considered anti-Communist even at one point).
Oh Jesus. Another one who blames the situation in Cuba on the US embargo. The US is one country. There are hundreds of others who could trade with Cuba. To blame the US for Cuba's problems is utterly ridiculous. Blame Cuba's inept government.
And with the embargo you gave Castro the perfect excuse to place the blame of Cuba's problems on the US.

Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-08-17 06:13:26

#66

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7177|Argentina

FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Oh Jesus. Another one who blames the situation in Cuba on the US embargo. The US is one country. There are hundreds of others who could trade with Cuba. To blame the US for Cuba's problems is utterly ridiculous. Blame Cuba's inept government.
And with the embargo you gave Castro the perfect excuse to place the blame of Cuba's problems on the US.
Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?

No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-08-17 06:14:25)

2008-08-17 06:22:41

#67

Surgeons: U shud proabbly f off u fat prik; +3,097|6909|Gogledd Cymru

We're all as bad as each other.

2008-08-17 07:34:50

#68

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6831|'Murka

sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:

And with the embargo you gave Castro the perfect excuse to place the blame of Cuba's problems on the US.
Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?
No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.

Says more about the intellect of those who bought it, tbh.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2008-08-17 07:53:52

#69

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?
No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.
Says more about the intellect of those who bought it, tbh.

QFT

2008-08-17 08:12:16

#70

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7177|Argentina

FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?
No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.
Says more about the intellect of those who bought it, tbh.

The average Joe isn't that smart anyway.

2008-08-17 11:00:13

#71

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Doesn't make Castro's blame placing accurate, now does it?
No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.
Says more about the intellect of those who bought it, tbh.

Please read the Cuban Democracy Act.

Clauses such as the one where the US navy can seize the cargo from any ship found around Cuban shores or in US waters? It's not as if the only effect of the US embargo was a loss of US trade exclusively (even though that loss did incur a 90% reduction in food and medicine aid)- you guys passed an Act that was so internationally-illegal that over 120 foreign states denounced it whilst the only backup you had in the matter was Israel. Which is pretty much like saying the administration of India agreed with British decisions made circa ~1900.

So let's not make any petty ad hominem arguments about each other's intellect. What makes you so well informed? Not one single US paper covered the Cuban Democracy Act, nor did they mention anything about Operation MONGOOSE until the CIA documents became declassified- and even then they were tiny paragraph-long mentions several pages in. You're hardly objectively informed of every US foreign involvement, so I don't really see what puts you on an all-knowing pedastal which allows you to speak down on the statistics and facts that I myself have as research on the matter.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-17 11:23:29

#72

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:
FEOS wrote:
sergeriver wrote:

No, but you give him leverage. The guy argued that all of Cuba's failures were the US fault and a lot of people bought it.
Says more about the intellect of those who bought it, tbh.
Please read the Cuban Democracy Act.

Clauses such as the one where the US navy can seize the cargo from any ship found around Cuban shores or in US waters? It's not as if the only effect of the US embargo was a loss of US trade exclusively (even though that loss did incur a 90% reduction in food and medicine aid)- you guys passed an Act that was so internationally-illegal that over 120 foreign states denounced it whilst the only backup you had in the matter was Israel. Which is pretty much like saying the administration of India agreed with British decisions made circa ~1900.

So let's not make any petty ad hominem arguments about each other's intellect. What makes you so well informed? Not one single US paper covered the Cuban Democracy Act, nor did they mention anything about Operation MONGOOSE until the CIA documents became declassified- and even then they were tiny paragraph-long mentions several pages in. You're hardly objectively informed of every US foreign involvement, so I don't really see what puts you on an all-knowing pedastal which allows you to speak down on the statistics and facts that I myself have as research on the matter.

He works for the Pentagon, so he probably has access to things you don't have access to.

2008-08-17 14:20:43

#73

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6890

And of course every government employee is entrusted with information from all levels and all departments.

If I had a job at GCHQ, even an admin-type role on the computer-systems, would that mean I'm basically James Bond?

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2008-08-17 20:41:12

#74

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6825|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:
And of course every government employee is entrusted with information from all levels and all departments.

If I had a job at GCHQ, even an admin-type role on the computer-systems, would that mean I'm basically James Bond?

Of course. They all drive DB9s over there, right?

I'm curious to see if you have any usmarine-style unbiased links though. Would you care to provide this research you've been hinting at?

2008-08-18 00:04:12

#75

Chrisimo: Member; +3|6172

Dilbert_X wrote:
...and threaten to blow up poland
You mean in the same way the US has threatened to blow up Iran?

I don't know. At least Iran threatened to blow up Israel. Who did Poland threaten to blow up?

BF2S Forums Irony?

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