BF2S Forums McCains VP Sarah Palin

Make it tougher to do business here see what happens. It's not that hard to understand. Bush's tax cuts have brought in more revenue than any other administration.. so yea, cut the spending and we are gold. The European model doesn't work here. It's not even close to being the same comparison.

PureFodder wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Raise the taxes and watch more jobs go over seas. What's 1% of nothing?

Ending the Bush tax cuts is a good thing.  As far as outsourcing goes, that has less to do with personal income taxes and more to do with corporate ones.

What we need to do more than anything though is to cut spending.  We could even keep the Bush tax cuts in place if we'd just spend less on things like the military.

If I recall correctly the increase in defense spending over the Bush years was 2.5 times as much as would be required to keep social security solvent pretty much indefinately. You don't even need to raise taxes to solve the problem.

The healthcare industry is the real elephant in the room, it's costs are rising by approximately twice the rate of inflation and that will cripple the US economy if people are too dumb to overhaul it soon.

How much of the problem is due to illegal aliens going to the ER with no insurance?

80% I bet.

We don't need a overhaul of the system as much as we need to limit its use to that of citizens.

ATG wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ending the Bush tax cuts is a good thing.  As far as outsourcing goes, that has less to do with personal income taxes and more to do with corporate ones.

What we need to do more than anything though is to cut spending.  We could even keep the Bush tax cuts in place if we'd just spend less on things like the military.

If I recall correctly the increase in defense spending over the Bush years was 2.5 times as much as would be required to keep social security solvent pretty much indefinately. You don't even need to raise taxes to solve the problem.

The healthcare industry is the real elephant in the room, it's costs are rising by approximately twice the rate of inflation and that will cripple the US economy if people are too dumb to overhaul it soon.

How much of the problem is due to illegal aliens going to the ER with no insurance?

80% I bet.

We don't need a overhaul of the system as much as we need to limit its use to that of citizens.

A socialized system would be better prepared to handle illegals.  I used to favor more border security until I realized that it's futile.

What we need now is flexibility.  That's only achieved through socialization.

Kmarion wrote:

Make it tougher to do business here see what happens. It's not that hard to understand. Bush's tax cuts have brought in more revenue than any other administration.. so yea, cut the spending and we are gold. The European model doesn't work here. It's not even close to being the same comparison.

Can you name a government that hasn't brought in more money than any other administration?
Inflation + growing populace pretty much guarantees that'll happen.

Reducing the amount of money people pay in tax by 0.5% isn't going to cause that much devastation (note that it ISN'T an increase in the tax Rate by 0.5%, just an increase in total tax of 0.5% so if you were paying 20 cents per dollar on tax it would increase to 20.1 cents per dollar)

Why would I replace my health with an ideaology proven to fail. No thanks. I value my health to much to put in it in the hands of Washington bureaucrats. Like I said reform doesn't need to come in NATIONWIDE healthcare (the states already provide assistance in some manner).


Tell me why should I be paying for your healthcare Turquoise? Why should I work hard only to have my income taken from me and given to you? That's slavery, are you trying to take my freedom Turq? Well, are you! ..

Kmarion wrote:

Why would I replace my health with an ideaology proven to fail. No thanks. I value my health to much to put in it in the hands of Washington bureaucrats. Like I said reform doesn't need to come in NATIONWIDE healthcare (the states already provide assistance in some manner).


Tell me why should I be paying for your healthcare Turquoise? Why should I work hard only to have my income taken from me and given to you? That's slavery, are you trying to take my freedom Turq? Well, are you! ..

Because the saving will be so great that even though the rich will end up paying a higher proportion of the nations healthcare costs they'd still be saving money overall. The current US system is litterally that messed up.

Socialized medicine as with many socialized policies have been shown to be remarkable successful. It's the privatized medical plans that are spiralling out of control. The three countries with the greatest proportion of private healthcare are also the three countries with the fastest growing healthcare costs.

I don't think anyone is seriously blaming immigrants or a sue happy culture for the US healthcare problems. Just to put it in perspective, if it were being caused by illegal immigrants it would require there to be about 12 million new illegal immigrants every year that recieve the same level of healthcare as regular Americans.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Raise the taxes and watch more jobs go over seas. What's 1% of nothing?

Ending the Bush tax cuts is a good thing.  As far as outsourcing goes, that has less to do with personal income taxes and more to do with corporate ones.

What we need to do more than anything though is to cut spending.  We could even keep the Bush tax cuts in place if we'd just spend less on things like the military.

Cut military spending at these dangerous times? We almost got into a war with Russia, you fools don't realize we need a strong military again. If we are to cut spending on something how about the cure or whatever of aids and hiv in Africa which we happen to be spending more money on than the military.

I wonder if War Man realizes the USA spends more on the military than every other nation in the world combined

(and a lot of it goes into experimental shit that never sees the light of day)

Last edited by Spearhead (2008-08-30 19:44:35)

God Save the Queen wrote:

military spending is a good thing.  our military spending is under 5% of our GDP and it helps our economy as well as secures American interests overseas.  The pursuit of those interests allows you and I to enjoy being members of a stable and affluent society.

I think the biggest problem people see with military spending is how wasteful it seems. If they were producing results at the same efficiency as say a Fortune 500 company, I don't think it would be as big of an issue.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

military spending is a good thing.  our military spending is under 5% of our GDP and it helps our economy as well as secures American interests overseas.  The pursuit of those interests allows you and I to enjoy being members of a stable and affluent society.

I think the biggest problem people see with military spending is how wasteful it seems. If they were producing results at the same efficiency as say a Fortune 500 company, I don't think it would be as big of an issue.

No one ever said the military was a "for profit" company. As for efficiency, there's no other military in the world that is as efficient as ours at what militaries do.

In fact, our military is one giant socialist paradise. And that aspect is what costs far more than the military hardware (housing, salary, medical, etc).

Kmarion wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Why would I replace my health with an ideaology proven to fail. No thanks. I value my health to much to put in it in the hands of Washington bureaucrats. Like I said reform doesn't need to come in NATIONWIDE healthcare (the states already provide assistance in some manner).


Tell me why should I be paying for your healthcare Turquoise? Why should I work hard only to have my income taken from me and given to you? That's slavery, are you trying to take my freedom Turq? Well, are you! ..

Because the saving will be so great that even though the rich will end up paying a higher proportion of the nations healthcare costs they'd still be saving money overall. The current US system is litterally that messed up.

Socialized medicine as with many socialized policies have been shown to be remarkable successful. It's the privatized medical plans that are spiralling out of control. The three countries with the greatest proportion of private healthcare are also the three countries with the fastest growing healthcare costs.

I don't think anyone is seriously blaming immigrants or a sue happy culture for the US healthcare problems. Just to put it in perspective, if it were being caused by illegal immigrants it would require there to be about 12 million new illegal immigrants every year that recieve the same level of healthcare as regular Americans.

Success as in long lines and sub par performance? No thanks keep it. Stop trying to apply your tiny little countries ideologies to ours. It doesn't work on this scale (it doesn't really work on your scale neither). Try having this conversation when the whole of Europe is under one plan. Why should I have my earned money taken away from me and used to pay for another mans bills? There is no such thing as forced charity.

As the US medical tourism industry booms and polls show that a huge number of Americans are simple not getting medical treatment at all due to it's high costs even if they are insured we find the answer to that question. Socialized systems can have wait times for less serious conditions because they treat so many more people and still manage to do it vastly cheaper. You may find a few British people pulling their own teeth, but the number of Americans that don't seek medical care despite serious illness/injury is huge. The US system is proving itself to be utterly unsastainable. Every year more and more people simply cannot afford healthcare costs at all. By the time social security is predicted to not be able to fully pay for itself, the medical system is expected to destroy the economy utterly. You complain about having you money taken away from you to pay for other people's healthcare, but you'll still actually be paying less money anyway, the US system is that screwed up.

The comparison between the current US system and the current European systems is flawed. The US can't afford to pay for it's current system without greatly harming it's economy and populace where as European systems can. The sensible comparison would be between the current US system running with 1/3 - 1/2 the funds compaired to European systems running at their current levels.

As far as small countries goes, it works in Germany with a population only 3.5 times smaller than the US hardly a massive difference.

Kmarion wrote:

You still haven't understood what I am saying. Business will pick up and move. There is nothing that can force them to say. Even more jobs going over seas? Again no thanks. Corporations are groups of workers. They should be offered tax incentives to stay at home.

By that logic, any company that would go abroad if they saw a 0.5% increase in taxes wouldn't have been in the US before the 2% tax cut anyway. European countries pay more in corporate taxes than the US ones and manage to stick around somehow.

Kmarion wrote:

I never once mentioned the word immigrant. My ex used to work for a medical attorney. The sue culture comes equally from the white trash sector.

Sorry, that was for Lowing, I should have been more clear. As far as sue happy culture causing all these problem, got anything to back up such a statement? I've seen no economists mention this seriously as the cause for Americas healthcare problems. The most I've seen is that the costs due to legal action are rising, but represent a small fraction of the overall rise. the main problem lies elsewhere.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Raise the taxes and watch more jobs go over seas. What's 1% of nothing?

Ending the Bush tax cuts is a good thing.  As far as outsourcing goes, that has less to do with personal income taxes and more to do with corporate ones.

What we need to do more than anything though is to cut spending.  We could even keep the Bush tax cuts in place if we'd just spend less on things like the military.

Yes, lets spend less on the military while Russia and China beef up their's...good idea.  Do you recall the phrase, "Peace though strength"?


Raising taxes, generally, is not a good idea because it discourages risk and wealth generation.

Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?

Last edited by Harmor (2008-08-31 12:54:19)

Poseidon wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Good point, Kmarion...  Biden will likely annihilate Palin.

Yep. I'm even more pumped for that than I am Obama-McCain! Okay, maybe not that much. But still.

The more I think about a debate between Biden/Palin the more I think the dems had better put him on a leash. Biden has a notorious temper. Another reason the republicans may have put her on the ticket is to get the sympathetic vote. It wouldn't be the first time voters have sided with a (woman) candidate who has appeared to have been battered.