You do understand what 'neutrality' is don't you? Did the government of Ireland militarily or financially assist the Nazis? N.O. NO. Niet. Níl.
Poll
Citizens who join the British army be stripped of Irish citizenship?
| Yes | 40% | 40% - 17 | ||||
| No | 59% | 59% - 25 | ||||
| Total: 42 | ||||||
They were not weakened into a surrender, nor where they eradicated. Sinn Féin persuaded them that they could not win back the six counties through death and destruction, from the point of view of PR for one and the point of view that Britain would never in a month of Sundays give them back at the hands of guerrilla insurgents: from a pride perspective alone.M.O.A.B wrote:
Didn't the IRA give up though? So in essence, they backed down from the fight.CameronPoe wrote:
The British army is NOT fighting terrorism. You can't fight terrorism with armies. The whole concept of a 'war on terror' is ludicrous. As evidenced by the British Army's inability to defeat the IRA, a terrorist organisation that carried out numerous heinous and dishonourable disgusting acts in its recent history. When an army is used to fight terrorism they generally end up killing more civilians than terrorists, generating even more 'terrorists' as a consequence.jord wrote:
The reference was an example of why someone might join the B. Army. And I wanted to know whether they fell into your "Irish citizens in the British Army that are allowed to live" box. If of course you have one.
If your kid was in London visiting, and was blown to bits by Islamic terrorists, and the only way you could get revenge was by joining the British Army. Is that okay?
So what are you trying to say?... I think I've about got it.CameronPoe wrote:
You do understand what 'neutrality' is don't you? Did the government of Ireland militarily or financially assist the Nazis? N.O. NO. Niet. Níl.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Harboured them nonetheless, and many were used to assist the IRA in later instances in fighting against the British.CameronPoe wrote:
You do understand what 'neutrality' is don't you? Did the government of Ireland militarily or financially assist the Nazis? N.O. NO. Niet. Níl.
The government covered up a lot about those who were living there, why would that be?
I don't see why they should continue to hold Irish citizenship. Of course, this scenario is different from other country ones as there's that whole Good Friday agreement and all that, which is why you can get Irish folk either playing for GB or Ireland in stuff like the Olympics and shit.
Or something...
But yeah, they should be stripped. I don't see why they shouldn't. Makes sense. Although you get people like the Gurkhas and Commonwealth countries who don't. Then again, those are different situations too.
Or something...
But yeah, they should be stripped. I don't see why they shouldn't. Makes sense. Although you get people like the Gurkhas and Commonwealth countries who don't. Then again, those are different situations too.
I can see why on the citizenship being removed, but not the whole branding a traitor part.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I don't see why they should continue to hold Irish citizenship. Of course, this scenario is different from other country ones as there's that whole Good Friday agreement and all that, which is why you can get Irish folk either playing for GB or Ireland in stuff like the Olympics and shit.
Or something...
But yeah, they should be stripped. I don't see why they shouldn't. Makes sense. Although you get people like the Gurkhas and Commonwealth countries who don't. Then again, those are different situations too.
Pffft. Nazis helping Marxists? lol.M.O.A.B wrote:
Harboured them nonetheless, and many were used to assist the IRA in later instances in fighting against the British.
The government covered up a lot about those who were living there, why would that be?
I notice America harboured a lot of Nazi rocket scientists after the war....
Neutrality:
A neutral country takes no side in a war between other parties.
I think you'll find we provided safe harbour to Brits, Americans and other allies who strayed off course also...
or are you suggesting we ate them alive or handed them to Himmler or something?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-08 09:42:38)
these are the British "ulster Scots" Loyalist to the Monarchy who were planted in Ireland by the crown hundreds of years ago, they do not view themselves as Irish but British so they play for "team GB" in the Olympics..Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I don't see why they should continue to hold Irish citizenship. Of course, this scenario is different from other country ones as there's that whole Good Friday agreement and all that, which is why you can get Irish folk either playing for GB or Ireland in stuff like the Olympics and shit.
Or something...
But yeah, they should be stripped. I don't see why they shouldn't. Makes sense. Although you get people like the Gurkhas and Commonwealth countries who don't. Then again, those are different situations too.
you need to look up the definition of a traitor then because that is exactly what they are.. the act of swearing an oath of allegiance to a Crown as a citizen of a Republic is an act of treason.. it can't be defined as anything else.. traitors commit treason. Call a spade a spade. If you are prepared to strip them of their citizenship then you accept they committed treason; therefore they are a? that's right ...TRAITOR!!!!M.O.A.B wrote:
I can see why on the citizenship being removed, but not the whole branding a traitor part.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
trai·tor Audio Help /ˈtreɪtər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[trey-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1175–1225; ME < OF < L trāditōr-, s. of trāditor betrayer. See traditor]
—Related forms
trai·tor·ship, noun
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-08 10:50:17)
I never said all of Ireland was involved in helping the Nazis, but that the harbouring of many of some of the worst individuals in history was done because they opposed the British. Harbouring some of the most despicable people because they had a grudge against one country is pretty low.CameronPoe wrote:
Pffft. Nazis helping Marxists? lol.M.O.A.B wrote:
Harboured them nonetheless, and many were used to assist the IRA in later instances in fighting against the British.
The government covered up a lot about those who were living there, why would that be?
I notice America harboured a lot of Nazi rocket scientists after the war....
Neutrality:
A neutral country takes no side in a war between other parties.
I think you'll find we provided safe harbour to Brits, Americans and other allies who strayed off course also...
or are you suggesting we ate them alive or handed them to Himmler or something?
The scientists taken to America weren't exactly the kind who sanctioned murder either, they were the actual scientists who worked on the tech and rocket programs. The ones involved with the killing of mass numbers were all executed.
Neutrality does not distinguish between sides. Show me where we distinguished between allies and axis. Show me where allies were not provided safe harbour. Neutrality does not involve judging 'despicableness'. One could equally have taken the view that a straying British soldier was 'despicable' for the acts of his uniform against our countries for centuries: but we didn't.M.O.A.B wrote:
I never said all of Ireland was involved in helping the Nazis, but that the harbouring of many of some of the worst individuals in history was done because they opposed the British. Harbouring some of the most despicable people because they had a grudge against one country is pretty low.
The scientists taken to America weren't exactly the kind who sanctioned murder either, they were the actual scientists who worked on the tech and rocket programs. The ones involved with the killing of mass numbers were all executed.
PS If you believe your second sentence then you are being pretty naive. The Americans would never kill minds capable of bolstering their technological capabilities by decades.
Name some of these individuals Ireland harboured who were so particularly despicable. Name some of those British or American soldiers we turned away or held captive.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-08 09:54:51)
I really dont get the whole 'let's make up what you said lark',CameronPoe wrote:
Neutrality does not distinguish between sides. Show me where we distinguished between allies and axis. Show me where allies were not provided safe harbour. Neutrality does not involve judging 'despicableness'. One could equally have taken the view that a straying British soldier was 'despicable' for the acts of his uniform against our countries for centuries: but we didn't.M.O.A.B wrote:
I never said all of Ireland was involved in helping the Nazis, but that the harbouring of many of some of the worst individuals in history was done because they opposed the British. Harbouring some of the most despicable people because they had a grudge against one country is pretty low.
The scientists taken to America weren't exactly the kind who sanctioned murder either, they were the actual scientists who worked on the tech and rocket programs. The ones involved with the killing of mass numbers were all executed.
PS If you believe your second sentence then you are being pretty naive. The Americans would never kill minds capable of bolstering their technological capabilities by decades.
Name some of these individuals Ireland harboured who were so particularly despicable. Name some of those British or American soldiers we turned away or held captive.
I did not say they didn't assist allied forces in WW2,
but if we're going to go into turning others away, persecuted jews fleeing the Nazis was one.
Despicable individuals would include these guys as well
History wrote:
In the first instalment of his two part series, O’Shannon examines the horrendous deeds of Andrija Artukovic, the Nazi Minister of the Interior in Croatia. Responsible for the deaths of over 1,000,000 men, women and children in concentration camps, Artukovic’s time in Ireland is still shrouded in mystery. The Department of Foreign Affairs refuses to release his file, while the Irish public remain unaware that such a man once resided in their country.
O’Shannon also delves into the activities of Celestine Laine, the former leader of Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He also looks at the gruesome actions of Pieter Menten, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland.
Last edited by M.O.A.B (2008-09-08 10:00:00)
lol You do know that guy lived happily in California for many years until he was finally exradited (1986) and that he only came to Ireland after WW2?M.O.A.B wrote:
In the first instalment of his two part series, O’Shannon examines the horrendous deeds of Andrija Artukovic, the Nazi Minister of the Interior in Croatia. Responsible for the deaths of over 1,000,000 men, women and children in concentration camps, Artukovic’s time in Ireland is still shrouded in mystery. The Department of Foreign Affairs refuses to release his file, while the Irish public remain unaware that such a man once resided in their country.
O’Shannon also delves into the activities of Celestine Laine, the former leader of Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He also looks at the gruesome actions of Pieter Menten, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland.
PS Why would the Irish have any knowledge of his past activities?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-08 10:02:32)
Why would the Americans if that's the case?CameronPoe wrote:
lol You do know that guy lived happily in California for many years until he was finally exradited (1986) and that he only came to Ireland after WW2?M.O.A.B wrote:
In the first instalment of his two part series, O’Shannon examines the horrendous deeds of Andrija Artukovic, the Nazi Minister of the Interior in Croatia. Responsible for the deaths of over 1,000,000 men, women and children in concentration camps, Artukovic’s time in Ireland is still shrouded in mystery. The Department of Foreign Affairs refuses to release his file, while the Irish public remain unaware that such a man once resided in their country.
O’Shannon also delves into the activities of Celestine Laine, the former leader of Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He also looks at the gruesome actions of Pieter Menten, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland.
PS Why would the Irish have any knowledge of his past activities?
Oh that's alright then...CameronPoe wrote:
lol You do know that guy lived happily in California for many years until he was finally exradited (1986) and that he only came to Ireland after WW2?M.O.A.B wrote:
In the first instalment of his two part series, O’Shannon examines the horrendous deeds of Andrija Artukovic, the Nazi Minister of the Interior in Croatia. Responsible for the deaths of over 1,000,000 men, women and children in concentration camps, Artukovic’s time in Ireland is still shrouded in mystery. The Department of Foreign Affairs refuses to release his file, while the Irish public remain unaware that such a man once resided in their country.
O’Shannon also delves into the activities of Celestine Laine, the former leader of Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He also looks at the gruesome actions of Pieter Menten, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland.
PS Why would the Irish have any knowledge of his past activities?
Claim ignorance, and pass the buck, good argument
Last edited by coke (2008-09-08 10:05:34)
Exactly. That's probably why they didn't give him up to the Yugoslav authorities.M.O.A.B wrote:
Why would the Americans if that's the case?CameronPoe wrote:
lol You do know that guy lived happily in California for many years until he was finally exradited (1986) and that he only came to Ireland after WW2?M.O.A.B wrote:
In the first instalment of his two part series, O’Shannon examines the horrendous deeds of Andrija Artukovic, the Nazi Minister of the Interior in Croatia. Responsible for the deaths of over 1,000,000 men, women and children in concentration camps, Artukovic’s time in Ireland is still shrouded in mystery. The Department of Foreign Affairs refuses to release his file, while the Irish public remain unaware that such a man once resided in their country.
O’Shannon also delves into the activities of Celestine Laine, the former leader of Bezen Perrot, a Waffen SS unit responsible for the torture and murder of civilians in occupied Brittany. He also looks at the gruesome actions of Pieter Menten, who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Jews in Poland.
PS Why would the Irish have any knowledge of his past activities?
Also - on the Menten case:
"Upon his release he believed he would settle in his County Waterford mansion in Ireland only to find out Garret Fitzgerald, Taoiseach at the time, had barred him from the country."
Yeah Britain has done everything, we get it. Stop using everything I say as fucking ammo. You're almost as bad as the wannabe IRA on youtube... Almost.IG-Calibre wrote:
skating on thin ice given the amount of children killed by the British crown forces here in the north of Ireland from 1968-2005.. how does revenge look now... justifiable?jord wrote:
The reference was an example of why someone might join the B. Army. And I wanted to know whether they fell into your "Irish citizens in the British Army that are allowed to live" box. If of course you have one.CameronPoe wrote:
Jord - I'm not wishing ill on British soldiers in the British army. I'm wishing ill on turncoats, that's all. There are people on this island alive today who lost relatives and ancesters to the British army from the late 1800s up to the present day.
PS Don't understand your terrorist attack reference.
If your kid was in London visiting, and was blown to bits by Islamic terrorists, and the only way you could get revenge was by joining the British Army. Is that okay?
It was an example. I could say Cam's brother or father, but then Brits have killed brothers and fathers too and I bet you fucking well would've used that as an excuse too.
Actually it was just an example to see if anyone falls into the above box. I got the idea from a book called "stand by, stand by". Where the guy is posted to N. Ireland and the IRA blow up his wife, so in his time off he hunts the guy responsible down.CameronPoe wrote:
The British army is NOT fighting terrorism. You can't fight terrorism with armies. The whole concept of a 'war on terror' is ludicrous. As evidenced by the British Army's inability to defeat the IRA, a terrorist organisation that carried out numerous heinous and dishonourable disgusting acts in its recent history. When an army is used to fight terrorism they generally end up killing more civilians than terrorists, generating even more 'terrorists' as a consequence.jord wrote:
The reference was an example of why someone might join the B. Army. And I wanted to know whether they fell into your "Irish citizens in the British Army that are allowed to live" box. If of course you have one.
If your kid was in London visiting, and was blown to bits by Islamic terrorists, and the only way you could get revenge was by joining the British Army. Is that okay?
i think the imperialist brits should give NI back and leave ireland alone.
I think you should give greyfox Puerto Rico backusmarine wrote:
i think the imperialist brits should give NI back and leave ireland alone.
no. greyfox needs to be contained. you know that.jord wrote:
I think you should give greyfox Puerto Rico backusmarine wrote:
i think the imperialist brits should give NI back and leave ireland alone.
During WW2 the Irish government provided the British with secret corridors to fly their planes...we should be thanking them.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
You don't thank neutral countries...m3thod wrote:
During WW2 the Irish government provided the British with secret corridors to fly their planes...we should be thanking them.
under the table of course.jord wrote:
You don't thank neutral countries...m3thod wrote:
During WW2 the Irish government provided the British with secret corridors to fly their planes...we should be thanking them.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Steady now, calm the head.. it's kinda how a discussion works, you're the man who was using revenge as justification to a man committing treason to join the Crown forces, you felt it was justifiable.. non? fact of the matter is the Crown forces killed children here during the troubles so by the same token those who joined the IRA were justifiable by your own logic.. not mine. hence the "thin ice" comment..jord wrote:
Stop using everything I say as fucking ammo. .
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-08 11:46:26)
I don't see it as that remember?IG-Calibre wrote:
you're the man who was using revenge as justification to a man committing treason to join the Crown forces, .