BF2S Forums F1 '08: Japanese Grand Prix - 3 Incidents, your thoughts?

#1 - truly reckless driving. Whether he was in contact with Kimi or not, he definitely pressed him out (as well as half the other racers) and deserved the penalty.

#2 - deserved

#3 - First of all, it was completely unnecessary by Massa. Bourdais came out of the pit stop and had a full tank, so Massa could've easily passed him a few corners later. That move cost him some valuable points. HOWEVER - Bourdais did come straight out of the pit, and afaik, Massa has the right to take the "racing line". Bourdais comes "blindly" in from Massa's right, and has to let Massa take the ideal line.

That is how I understand the rules. Bourdais deserved the penalty, and it was a bad move by Massa as well.

Last edited by Jenspm (2008-10-14 11:52:04)

Kptk92 wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

#2 - deserved

#3 - First of all, it was completely unnecessary by Massa. Bourdais came out of the pit stop and had a full tank, so Massa could've easily passed him a few corners later. That move cost him some valuable points. HOWEVER - Bourdais did come straight out of the pit, and afaik, Massa has the right to take the "racing line". Bourdais comes "blindly" in from Massa's right, and has to let Massa take the ideal line.

That is how I understand the rules. Bourdais deserved the penalty, and it was a bad move by Massa as well.

So you believe that #2 was deserved when #3 was virtually a repeat of #2 and got a harsher penalty?

<\debate>

no, it's not the same.


Bourdais came out of the pit stop, and he is supposed to give way to the other racers, if it's that close.

Kptk92 wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Kptk92 wrote:

So you believe that #2 was deserved when #3 was virtually a repeat of #2 and got a harsher penalty?

<\debate>

no, it's not the same.


Bourdais came out of the pit stop, and he is supposed to give way to the other racers, if it's that close.

Personally I think that

1. that first corner is pretty hard, as shown on the opening lap.
2. the pit lane should exit a bit further away so drivers can get back onto the racing line.
3. not trying to be biased much, but Massa did get off lightly considering he illegally cut across a corner to try and gain an advantage.

1+2: agreed
3: well, Hamilton fucked it up for Massa, Kimi, and more the first turn, while Massa fucked it up for Hammy (#3), and they both got drive-through penalties. That's fair, imo.

Airwolf wrote:

was this the night time one?

nope, the one after that.

meh, all F1 drivers are arrogant


and yes, I did mean the first corner.

Kptk92 wrote:

The three main Incidents - 1st lap, 1st corner - Hamilton's "push" on Raikonnen, Hamilton's spin and Massa's Spin

(My opinion is kinda pro-Hamilton, but I personally think each decision by the Stewards were poor)
#1 - Apparently Hamilton made contact with Raikonnen and I personally don't think contact was made. Although from second viewing there may have been wheel contact as Hamilton's tyres locked up. But still, a very harsh penalty imo.
#2 - Massa cut across the grass, no question about it. Hamilton raced normally and Massa was over-reactive.
#3 - Unfair that Bourdais recieved a 25-second penalty for an incident that was exactly the same as the Massa-Hamilton collision.

I actually didn't see much debate in the actual Japan GP thread last weekend, but these are definately talking points in the world of F1.

1.  Turn one in fuji is very very difficult.  The quickest line is actually to go a bit off the track, as a result it is very difficult to judge when you have so many cars around you.  Hamiltons lock up gave him little to no control over where he went, but with that said, he put himself into that situation by trying to go super agressive to make up for his bad start.

2.  Massa's fault.  He was on the grass and side swiped hamilton.

3.  FIAerrari bias once again.  If what Bourdais did was wrong, then apparantly the FIA expect the drivers to go off the track to let the red cars through.  He was fighting for position.  Owed massa nothing, and massa obviously was to early on the gas and fucked it up for himself.

I actually like massa, overall.  Atleast more than kimi.  But all this ferrari favourtism is absolute bullshit.

BMW are doing well, considering they stoped developin the car infavour for next year.  I hope they rape those fucking italions (zomg racism).

#1 - Definitly Hamiltons fault, however, I still do not see any valid reason for the penalty. Unless he actually did hit someone, I cannot see a reason for it, and even then, do we penalise ALL drivers for making contact? Looking at it again, I dont think they did make contact, it looks as if Kimi realised at the last second and pulled away.
Anyway....so he locked up, big deal? Lots of drivers lock up, and yes, perhaps it is a little reckless, but he had the opportunity and took it, and its not as if he gained any position from it anyway: he was in third after that.

#2 - Both. I see no difference in what happened there to what happened in (Belgium?) where Kimi forced Hamilton off on the s-bend, except that they collided. If Hamilton got penalised there for going off-track and Kimi didnt...why did they BOTH get punished this time?
In this instance, I cannot see why Hamilton got penalised for taking his own racing line, only to be pushed off to 18th place by Massa who had just gone off...that was surely punishment enough.

#3 - Massa, although, in the last clip, he couldnt possibly have seen Bourdais due to the angle of the wing mirror: Bourdais is almost parallel with him and with the size of the cockpit would have meant leaning over his shoulder: which you cannot possibly do in an F1 car. Quite frankly, that is an incident that didnt deserve punishment for any of the two cars.
But still, the French got screwed over, so who cares

Last edited by Snake (2008-10-14 14:36:28)

1st:
Hamilton charged into a corner and locked up... BFD, its turn one deal with it. if they are gonna penalize every bold move that results in a lock up in corner one, first lap we are in for a LOT more penalties.

2nd:
Massa went off the track and tried to hold it, then speared Hamilton. Massa deserved penalty.

3rd:
Bourdais came out of the pits and took the first corner. He made no move, he didn't do anything but turn his car. Massa was on the outside and turned straight into him. Massa deserved penalty if anything.