BF2S Forums Not everybody is a gunner .............more noObage

...wow...and I thought I was unlucky.
When things like that happen I want to learn how to switch to gunner seat in mid flight and unleash a torrent of accurate MG fire and TV missles to devaste the enemy while the chopper spins around like a top. (I wish I could do that )

Yup, the truth is that MOST BF2 players are not good (What a surprise ), especially in vehicles. Now I know that many players think that vehicles are really overpowered, but those players really just aren't good enough to be willing to stoop low enough to counter them or avoid them. I see far too much complaining about tank camping and overpowered helos and planes.

Now with that being said, these unskilled players say to themselves, "Ooh, I don't get pwned by those vehicles because the players are good, just that those vehicles are awesome." The result is a horde of people who have no clue jumping into vehicles because they think it is easy but have no ability or awareness of what they should do. A bad attack helo gunner/pilot pretty much the worst case followed by a bad bomber pilot and then by a bad tank driver on a map where your team only gets one tank.

I saw this thread where a n00b though he was tank whoring because he spent 10% of his time in tanks with a lousy 1.04 k/d ratio using them. It is this type of unskilled player who camps out a helo pad to jump in and get nothing accomplished with the helo.

I was playing FuShe Pass yesterday and had a random player (ranked Master Gunnery SGT) fly with me in the helo for most of the round - we traded flying duties after half the tickets were gone. Both of us were lining up shots and were hitting them, mostly against enemy helicopters including the opposing attack helo. After one of our deaths we return to the pad to find an ordinary Sergeant camping it out (Please refrain from flaming me for mentioning ranks - but it is often a sign of flying skill - and already has this thread dedicated to the matter). The new guy grabs the pilot seat and I get in as the gunner being willing to give him a chance - I didn't demand he get out. He flies slowly and overcautiously to the nearest contested base and tries to hover cap it while pointing me at the nearby wall. After ~5 seconds we are shot down by a TOW, good job there moron.

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

...wow...and I thought I was unlucky.
When things like that happen I want to learn how to switch to gunner seat in mid flight and unleash a torrent of accurate MG fire and TV missles to devaste the enemy while the chopper spins around like a top. (I wish I could do that )

I don't really like when guys do that, because more often than not they don't go after mobile enemy targets, rather they just rape a vehicle spawn point. I met one guy who did that to the second PLA helo on Dalian, didn't go for ANY other target, just kept raping that one spot for kills.

@jonnykill - I feel your pain, ofthen if my gunner shows a lack of attention to what I'm targeting, I just play as though they aren't even there. I hope that you do get a good gunner every now and then so that you don't become too frustrated with the game.

Sharqi penninsula (TV station, construction site dead center).  I'm not the best helicopter pilot but I usually do fairly good when I get to fly the helicopter.  The spinning thing was sort of a joke...the only time I do that is when the screen says "3 more players untill game starts".

The players I hate are the ones who will M95 you and your gunner so that they can get the chopper with their buddy as gunner...then take off and instantly ram a MEC transport chopper to get the 1 kill.

When I fly I expect the gunner to try.  I don't care if he couldn't hit the essex if he tried.  As long as he shoots at the enemy and doesn't try to kill the tanks with the MG.

I'll be your gunner, I'm told I'm good. I need a good pilot and then I'm king.

I didn't want this to turn into an "Oh I'm good at flying/gunning, we should play together sometime" thread. It kills discussion.

I should also add a nice addendum to my previous comments: being able to fly is far different than being able to just survive while up in a plane/helo.

Here's another personal anecdote. Yesterday I was on Daqing Oilfields (2nd round, this had just followed Wake Island where I had a 55 to 3 k/d ratio over 2 rounds - server swaps sides every round) and had just come off another steller round in the bomber when a n00b decides he wants to fly and I let him and get in as the laser gunner. He spends the next 8 minutes banking around the map - literally never flying level and after he dropped his bombs he didn't go and reload. Wasn't chasing another plane, wasn't using his cannon, just was driving Miss Daisy up in the sky. Made it so that I couldn't get but a few lucky shots on targets. He finished this show of flying endourance by crashing into a smokestack.

That is just my 2 cents on everyone who says "I can fly" (doesn't matter what vehicle), just because I've seen people who don't just instantly die, but are equally worthless in the air. Maybe he had some friends on the other team who didn't like getting bombed, so he decided to pointlessly hog the bomber to give them some sort of advantage (and sabatoging your own team is cheating - though people spend thier time complaining about GL abuse... grr...).

Edit: Grammatical errors.

Last edited by Gilgalad (2006-01-23 09:21:45)

Dr.Battlefield wrote:

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

...wow...and I thought I was unlucky.
When things like that happen I want to learn how to switch to gunner seat in mid flight and unleash a torrent of accurate MG fire and TV missles to devaste the enemy while the chopper spins around like a top. (I wish I could do that )

Wanna switch a gunner? (bad gunners only plz lol) Just fly at the end of the map and put a nose of your helicopter into the red area. Your gunner will be killed in 8 seconds because hes over the border. + its not a teamkill. It will count as a suicide for him. I didnt do that + I dont fly rly often, but I know that it works.

People who do that just because their friend didn't get in the helicopter piss me off.  I usually look for someway to repay the favor.  Just because someone else gets in the chopper doesn't give you the right to be a jerk.  Give them a chance, you might get a gunner who is just as good and maybe better.

DSRTurtle wrote:

Dr.Battlefield wrote:

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

...wow...and I thought I was unlucky.
When things like that happen I want to learn how to switch to gunner seat in mid flight and unleash a torrent of accurate MG fire and TV missles to devaste the enemy while the chopper spins around like a top. (I wish I could do that )

Wanna switch a gunner? (bad gunners only plz lol) Just fly at the end of the map and put a nose of your helicopter into the red area. Your gunner will be killed in 8 seconds because hes over the border. + its not a teamkill. It will count as a suicide for him. I didnt do that + I dont fly rly often, but I know that it works.

People who do that just because their friend didn't get in the helicopter piss me off.  I usually look for someway to repay the favor.  Just because someone else gets in the chopper doesn't give you the right to be a jerk.  Give them a chance, you might get a gunner who is just as good and maybe better.

You should read the post above! I said I dont do that + We are tlking about gunners who get it but dont shoot omg. I know that ppl do that to fly with a friend, and it pisses me off too.

Dr.Battlefield wrote:

Wanna switch a gunner? (bad gunners only plz lol) Just fly at the end of the map and put a nose of your helicopter into the red area. Your gunner will be killed in 8 seconds because hes over the border. + its not a teamkill. It will count as a suicide for him. I didnt do that + I dont fly rly often, but I know that it works.

That's no better than TKing for a vehicle. I would kick somebody who did that in a flash.

I'm still just learning as a chopper pilot, so I let somebody else be the pilot when I can. There are enough servers where a jet or chopper just sits idle on the ground where I can sharpen my skills.

I'm a pretty good gunner (I win about 80% of the attack chopper duels where the pilots are equal). Still, when  there is a queue I leave the chopper for others to fight over, and move off on foot.

As frustrating as having a bad gunner can be, flying an attack chopper solo is just wrong. You can't learn to be a gunner sitting on the ground, and everybody starts out as a "noob".

One last thing, I was recently on a 64 player map where there were only 12 players on a side. As many as 8 guys (2/3 of the team) was either in the air or queued up waiting for a jet or attack chopper! That left just four guys to capture and defend flags. Needless to say, the other team won easily. I didn't stick around for the next round, there are too many other servers to have to put up with that kind of self-centered play.

BF2 is a team game. If you are a noob and want to learn to contribute, I'm happy to play with you. But if you're not a team player, I wish you would pick a different game.

Vic42 wrote:

BF2 is a team game. If you are a noob and want to learn to contribute, I'm happy to play with you. But if you're not a team player, I wish you would pick a different game.

People could learn a lot from you.
Too many people insist on saying "MY CHOPPER HANDS OFF," and if they're good or not, it's really fucken sad. Same goes for people wanting their own mate as a gunner, although that's not so bad. However, if you get an unwanted gunner, and your team mate is left on the ground, ask him a couple of times to jump out. If he does, you have encountered a good team player. I he dosn't deal with it. he may be a fucken awesome gunner, and because of him you may earn a gold medal or something. If he can't gun for shit, what have you lost? Nothing! It's a fun game wether or not you succeed.

I myself have jumped into a chopper with an unwilling pilot. He wanted his mate in. He was hovering over us both, trying to avoid me and get his mate. I got in first though, and the guy asled me to get out. I was actually oblivious to the fact that he wanted his friend as his gunner, but it clicked just then. I got out, and the two guys were really greatful. I had to tell them to shut up all the "Thanks, I owe you one" messages, and it was nice to be appreciated. I just figured that there were other things I could do to have fun. not saying everyone should do that, but use your better judgement, and try not to be too selfish, (that goes for the guy who told me to get out too.)


I for one am sick of cues at airfields. If I aim to get in a plane or chopper, and tragicly someone else gets there first, no worries! I can do something else which is the best thing about BF2 - you don't have to fly, you can try something else! How cool is that? If I do get there first though, I will gun, fly be a passenger and do anything I want. I have the right to, because it is a first come first served rule, not a who's best flies/guns rule, so please get off my runway would you?

ROFL!!!!!

10 bucks says you were playing single player!!!

j/k...... hehe, but dosnt that sound like how the bots behave?

Tyferra wrote:

Hang on though, getting Helicopter badge or not, you should always fire. The point of the game isn't to get badges glormlessly, it's to kill people and have fun. You know, you can do that in a chopper and time still ticks on until you have fifteen minutes in a chopper and a bunch of kills under your belt.

I agree.  Maybe this is the equiv of a pilot trying to get rid of a gunner so their buddy can join.  They just don't shoot until the helo gets shot down, and they can get the helo with their pilot buddy.

Tyferra wrote:

Too many people insist on saying "MY CHOPPER HANDS OFF," and if they're good or not, it's really fucken sad. Same goes for people wanting their own mate as a gunner, although that's not so bad.

Tyferra, if you'd bother to read the posts made by myself and others complaining, you'd realize that we are not complaining because they get in the vehicle to begin with, but that more often than not try to get back in after they've shown to us that they suck. When I get into a plane or helo and there is nobody else around to join me I don't just take off and hog it on my own. I create a squad so that someone can spawn on me if they'd like.

As to having your 'mate' in, if I've already picked up a random gunner and he is good then why let someone who is unproven join me? I'm not talking about prearranged clanmates or your own personal friends here.

Tyferra wrote:

I for one am sick of cues at airfields. If I aim to get in a plane or chopper, and tragicly someone else gets there first, no worries! I can do something else which is the best thing about BF2 - you don't have to fly, you can try something else! How cool is that? If I do get there first though, I will gun, fly be a passenger and do anything I want. I have the right to, because it is a first come first served rule, not a who's best flies/guns rule, so please get off my runway would you?

I don't mind true cues that are enforced by admins. The only problem that then occurs are the useless 'aerial survivalists' who just fly around without focus and of whom I've already complained. This cue weeds out the inexperienced pilots because they will get frustrated by the longer wait times beteen flights (or sometimes when I'm flying they may not get it the entire round because I didn't die). Why do I like to discourage practice flying on ranked servers? Because ranked servers are not the place for practicing basic flying skills. Go spend some time playing offline or in unranked servers (you know that you don't have to have the ranked server box checked in the server filter).

The planes are a rare commodity and can be a difference maker on the map. When the skillless use them, it isn't about me being some smacktard whore who cries if I don't get my precious jet/helo, it is the entire team that suffers. Why should a team of 32 struggle just to satisfy the desire to practice flying by some newbie?

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

That sounds like people just trying to make time in the helo for a badge.  I'm not the best gunner out there, and maybe not even a really good gunner, but at least I know how to switch between missiles and the gun, and I know what a pilot is doing when he levels off and stops moving.

The basic rule is that when an attack chopper pilot stops moving and levels off, he's lining up a target for the gunner.

You are the type of newbie gunner who I would be mad at, and are not the intended target of this thread.

I checked you stats, and see that you have almost 3 hours of helo time and just 42 kills at the time I'm posting this. I'm guessing that some of that time ocurred in transport helos, but it is still a fairly low kill rate. However, you express a sentiment that is not present in the players we complain about - awareness.

Just knowing when to use the MG or TV missles is the first key (which you seem to have expressed the idea of). Many of the useless gunner we complain about just camp in the tv view, and basically get tunnel vision like a bad sniper who get's knifed a lot. Alternately there is the gunner who has no idea what the tv missles are and tries to take out tanks/apcs with the weak MG. Worse yet is the gunner who doesn't even bother to fire a single shot.

Amidst all this negativity, I'd like to offer you some pieces of advice gained from experience. While I can't improve you aim, these might help a bit.

1. Don't aim at the infantry, aim at their feet. This is especially important with the USMC and PLA helos. Basically it is easier to get the kill using splash damage than direct hits.

2. TV missles can be guided. Okay so many of you know this already, but there are n00bs who do not know that you can redirect them in midflight.

3. The pilot doesn't have to be perfectly still for you to use the TV missles. Most of the best gunner/pilot combos I've been a part of didn't involve static hovering while the gunner made his shots.

4. Overkill is better than no kill. Who cares if you have a shot lined up for you gunner or if your pilot is already firing hydra missles at a vehicle. As a gunner, still TV missle it, and as a pilot fire your missles. You don't want that vehicle to get another chance.