In america you should be able to own a gun.
In japan you shouldn't
I haven't lived anywhere else so I dont know about any other country.
In japan you shouldn't
I haven't lived anywhere else so I dont know about any other country.
Poll
Legalize/Ban gun ownership
| I'm in Europe and i think it should be legalised | 7% | 7% - 9 | ||||
| I'm in Europe and i think it should stay banned | 20% | 20% - 24 | ||||
| I'm in NA and i think we should keep our guns | 60% | 60% - 71 | ||||
| I'm in NA and i think guns should be banned | 4% | 4% - 5 | ||||
| Other- outline below | 7% | 7% - 9 | ||||
| Total: 118 | ||||||
well lets see, so far my sons have shot a 9mm a ak-47 an ar-15, various .22's, and a 12 gage pump action. They show respect and responsibility on the range and never never cut up at the range. They have esrned my trust and of course will never be handling these rifles without me around.Braddock wrote:
These posts exemplify the gulf of difference between Europe and the US... the thought of pre-teen chavs over here being issued guns by their parents sends chills down my spine!deeznutz1245 wrote:
When I was 12 and passed my NRA course in summer camp my Dad bought me a Ruger .22 !! Sweet! I saved my snow shoveling money that winter and my dad bought me a 4/10 in the spring. Good memories, I hope your sons enjoy learning how to level off the sights with their ol' man.lowing wrote:
My sons 11 and 12, are going to get .22 rifles for Christmas. A Winchester Wildcat and a Ruger 10/22 Very exciting, their first guns.
I'm not saying your kids are chavs btw.
Sorry ya feel that way. I will take opinions on a matter along the same lines.
When I got my AK and my shotgun, I gave them to the boys to examine, they were able to hold it, aim it, etc...... I even told them where I keep it. Then we had a long talk about them. The idea being to get all of there curiousity out of the way, to the point where seeing it was no longer a big deal and something "cool". This way, they are already exposed to them and all questions and curiousity are satisfied. This is the reason why I take them to the range. I let them shoot these weapons until they have had a belly full. Now, I am more than confident that there will be no "stumbling" across my guns by accident, and even if they did, they know exactly what it is and what it can do and how it does it. All of this, along with the rules I have established with them I feel will prevent any of the fears you might have for your own household. There is no "sneaking", they do not have to, all they have to do is ask and off to the firing range we go.
Opinions on this?
Thanks, We have a great time at the range. I can not wait to get them back there with their very own rifles. Will be exciting.deeznutz1245 wrote:
When I was 12 and passed my NRA course in summer camp my Dad bought me a Ruger .22 !! Sweet! I saved my snow shoveling money that winter and my dad bought me a 4/10 in the spring. Good memories, I hope your sons enjoy learning how to level off the sights with their ol' man.lowing wrote:
My sons 11 and 12, are going to get .22 rifles for Christmas. A Winchester Wildcat and a Ruger 10/22 Very exciting, their first guns.
I have no problems with that. What would worry me is if they became obsessed with guns, but that's very, very rare and probably has little to do with gun ownership.lowing wrote:
well lets see, so far my sons have shot a 9mm a ak-47 an ar-15, various .22's, and a 12 gage pump action. They show respect and responsibility on the range and never never cut up at the range. They have esrned my trust and of course will never be handling these rifles without me around.Braddock wrote:
These posts exemplify the gulf of difference between Europe and the US... the thought of pre-teen chavs over here being issued guns by their parents sends chills down my spine!deeznutz1245 wrote:
When I was 12 and passed my NRA course in summer camp my Dad bought me a Ruger .22 !! Sweet! I saved my snow shoveling money that winter and my dad bought me a 4/10 in the spring. Good memories, I hope your sons enjoy learning how to level off the sights with their ol' man.
I'm not saying your kids are chavs btw.
Sorry ya feel that way. I will take opinions on a matter along the same lines.
When I got my AK and my shotgun, I gave them to the boys to examine, they were able to hold it, aim it, etc...... I even told them where I keep it. Then we had a long talk about them. The idea being to get all of there curiousity out of the way, to the point where seeing it was no longer a big deal and something "cool". This way, they are already exposed to them and all questions and curiousity are satisfied. This is the reason why I take them to the range. I let them shoot these weapons until they have had a belly full. Now, I am more than confident that there will be no "stumbling" across my guns by accident, and even if they did, they know exactly what it is and what it can do and how it does it. All of this, along with the rules I have established with them I feel will prevent any of the fears you might have for your own household. There is no "sneaking", they do not have to, all they have to do is ask and off to the firing range we go.
Opinions on this?
I used to be a gun-control freak, but now I have a stand that it's all to do with the culture/customs of the place. Excessive gun control in a place where guns have become part of the fabric of the society (and the society is stable, to qualify) can be highly counterproductive.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Read the federalist papers, read about the views of the drafters. The right to bear arms was intended to deter tyranny by physical practicality. If the people are armed, governments can't afford to conquer them, whether foreign or domestic. To serve these purposes, we would have no restrictions on small arms, but potential restrictions on civilian ownership of WMD's. The "fathers" were certainly not anti-technological progress or ignorant to the likely progress of technology. Repeating firearms weren't popularized until the 20th century, but they are a VERY old idea certainly not beyond their imaginations, and a few lived to see early iterations.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Seeing how the second ammendment was written like 200 years ago I say that nobody can own anything more advanced than a musket.
Anyway, I find it funny how the 2nd amendment, in colloquial use, has been co-opted from a right to bear ARMS, to a right to bear GUNS. The fight for the 2nd amendment was lost in 1934 during the depths of the depression, when no one could afford to fight it in governmental forums. Today we just bring up the 2nd amendment while talking about "gun control," a straw man standing for our original right and its original purpose. ...doesn't have a damn thing to do with sporting, just keeping everyone on equal footing.
Our constitution isn't perfect, and the resulting government we see in the 21st century is critically flawed, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the second amendment. Don't believe the newthink hype, consider the definition of the word politics and where you and your neighborhood stands. What is the source of political power? Consider the short list of things and how little of it you or your town has. Everybody's grandpa already sold the farm, and by now they are all buying their living and stock from Dow and Monsanto.
Yes, and the other barrier is the cost and scarcity. It's been illegal to import any new automatic weapons for civilian use for 2 decades, so as simple economics would predict, nearly all automatic firearms in the US command market values, relative to their incredibly large demand, in the tens of thousands of dollars.RAIMIUS wrote:
Full auto firearms ARE heavily restricted. You need an extra background check, the approval of your local chief law enforcement officer, and a $200 stamp.
Here are some nice pieces for you to read:
http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Savelsberg1.html
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts … screen.pdf
The first is useful because it comes from a European perspective and considers the element of socioeconomic status, which is glaringly missing from most pro-gun(i.e., NRA) and anti-gun arguments. The second is a kind of gung-ho battery of "debunking" for typical gun control "myths," I can't say I double checked the hundreds of citations, but it covers most of the stuff I've read and kind of fails when it attempts to negatively correlate violence with imprisonment.
One fact that most people miss when comparing Europe and the United States is that we have always had "tired and poor" and correspondingly high rates of crime. People try to pin our high crime rates on guns, but New York has had approximately 5 times more violent crime than London for over 200 years. It's a trend that long preexisted gun control or the disarming of European civilians. In disarmed Britain there are higher rates of mugging, burglary, and "hot" burglary, which is a burglary in an occupied home, even despite their far higher quality of living and markedly less socioeconomic stratification. Considering the US is about half third world country, I'd say we are doing just fine having less crime than Britain, but twice the murder rate. And half of the people murdered in our country have a criminal record and know the people that killed them. When you have cities of poor people, you have crime and then street justice. If these people could get decent jobs in our owned economy with shit education, then they wouldn't be stealing from each other and shooting each other in the back. It's about as simple as that. Odds are, you in England are beginning to witness some of the same process with your "chavs." But you aren't going to see any politicians do anything soon that puts more political power into the hands of the average civilian so you might as well buy guns in the US while they let you and see what happens. It's a small investment.
Anyway, I like this one:
Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-11-24 21:45:55)
I do the same thing with my nephews. They know I have firearms and if they ask to see and hold any of them, it's not a problem. I take all the mystery away while teaching the responsibility that comes with firearms. My nephew loves my little .22 henry goldenboy, it's the only rifle he can shoulder.lowing wrote:
There is no "sneaking", they do not have to, all they have to do is ask and off to the firing range we go.
Opinions on this?
I think the obsessivness comes to play when you tell people that they can not have it or do it. The mere notion of Obama banning guns has started a run on Ar-15's etc by people who probably didn't give a shit or would have bought one otherwise, as an example.Spark wrote:
I have no problems with that. What would worry me is if they became obsessed with guns, but that's very, very rare and probably has little to do with gun ownership.lowing wrote:
well lets see, so far my sons have shot a 9mm a ak-47 an ar-15, various .22's, and a 12 gage pump action. They show respect and responsibility on the range and never never cut up at the range. They have esrned my trust and of course will never be handling these rifles without me around.Braddock wrote:
These posts exemplify the gulf of difference between Europe and the US... the thought of pre-teen chavs over here being issued guns by their parents sends chills down my spine!
I'm not saying your kids are chavs btw.
Sorry ya feel that way. I will take opinions on a matter along the same lines.
When I got my AK and my shotgun, I gave them to the boys to examine, they were able to hold it, aim it, etc...... I even told them where I keep it. Then we had a long talk about them. The idea being to get all of there curiousity out of the way, to the point where seeing it was no longer a big deal and something "cool". This way, they are already exposed to them and all questions and curiousity are satisfied. This is the reason why I take them to the range. I let them shoot these weapons until they have had a belly full. Now, I am more than confident that there will be no "stumbling" across my guns by accident, and even if they did, they know exactly what it is and what it can do and how it does it. All of this, along with the rules I have established with them I feel will prevent any of the fears you might have for your own household. There is no "sneaking", they do not have to, all they have to do is ask and off to the firing range we go.
Opinions on this?
I used to be a gun-control freak, but now I have a stand that it's all to do with the culture/customs of the place. Excessive gun control in a place where guns have become part of the fabric of the society (and the society is stable, to qualify) can be highly counterproductive.
I want my boys to be so diluted with the notion of guns in the house that it is normal and therefore no big deal. No curiousity no sneaking no experimenting with them, they already know by their own hands. Anyway, I couldn't feel comfortable with having guns in the house and all I did was "hope" they were never found. Especially while I was away.
Last edited by lowing (2008-11-24 21:29:56)
It took some convincing to get my wife to agree on this approach, but now, I have her at the range as well. I really think this is the only way to handle guns in the home.Reciprocity wrote:
I do the same thing with my nephews. They know I have firearms and if they ask to see and hold any of them, it's not a problem. I take all the mystery away while teaching the responsibility that comes with firearms. My nephew loves my little .22 henry goldenboy, it's the only rifle he can shoulder.lowing wrote:
There is no "sneaking", they do not have to, all they have to do is ask and off to the firing range we go.
Opinions on this?
Had to look up the goldenboy, good lookin rifle. I might wanna get me one of those. that we we will have a bolt action, lever action and auto loaders to shoot
they're a handy little rifle. Accurate as you can shoot.lowing wrote:
Had to look up the goldenboy, good lookin rifle. I might wanna get me one of those. that we we will have a bolt action, lever action and auto loaders to shoot
already got one.Marinejuana wrote:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/ … G_0363.jpg
nice yugo.Marinejuana wrote:
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i149/ … G_0363.jpg
Thanks Rec. and yep Lowing, I heard ya when you posted that earlier. Just posting pics in the gun thread. I'm happy you've got one, which type?
Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-11-24 22:20:02)
Mine is Romanian with the Dragonov stock.Marinejuana wrote:
Yep Lowing, I heard ya when you posted that earlier. The pic wasn't any particular message to you. Just posting pics in the gun thread. I'm happy you've got one, which type?
Last edited by lowing (2008-11-24 22:22:40)
Cool, one of mine is a Romy WASR-10/63, the other is a Yugo M70. I shoot my Marlin 60 and Ruger Mk. 2 more than anything else, though (ammo/$$).
Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-11-24 22:32:33)
I think I wanna change out the stock, I am not a fan of it, the grip is too thick for my hand let alone my sons. I also want it to look more like what is accepted as what an Ak looks like.Marinejuana wrote:
Cool, one of mine is a Romy WASR-10/63, the other is a Yugo M70. I shoot my Marlin 60 and Ruger Mk. 2 more than anything else, though (ammo/$$).
Question for you. Mine is also a WASR-10 but I do not remember any numbers after the "10", what does the 63 designate?
I'm in Europe and I'll keep my perfectly legal guns
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
Oh. My. God.Marinejuana wrote:
Read the federalist papers, read about the views of the drafters. The right to bear arms was intended to deter tyranny by physical practicality. If the people are armed, governments can't afford to conquer them, whether foreign or domestic. To serve these purposes, we would have no restrictions on small arms, but potential restrictions on civilian ownership of WMD's. The "fathers" were certainly not anti-technological progress or ignorant to the likely progress of technology. Repeating firearms weren't popularized until the 20th century, but they are a VERY old idea certainly not beyond their imaginations, and a few lived to see early iterations.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Seeing how the second ammendment was written like 200 years ago I say that nobody can own anything more advanced than a musket.
Anyway, I find it funny how the 2nd amendment, in colloquial use, has been co-opted from a right to bear ARMS, to a right to bear GUNS. The fight for the 2nd amendment was lost in 1934 during the depths of the depression, when no one could afford to fight it in governmental forums. Today we just bring up the 2nd amendment while talking about "gun control," a straw man standing for our original right and its original purpose. ...doesn't have a damn thing to do with sporting, just keeping everyone on equal footing.
Our constitution isn't perfect, and the resulting government we see in the 21st century is critically flawed, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the second amendment. Don't believe the newthink hype, consider the definition of the word politics and where you and your neighborhood stands. What is the source of political power? Consider the short list of things and how little of it you or your town has. Everybody's grandpa already sold the farm, and by now they are all buying their living and stock from Dow and Monsanto.
I agree completely with MJ.
I see four guys on horseback coming down my street...one has a sword...another has a trumpet...
This is weird.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Is it true you guys have to keep weapons and a certain amount of ammo in the house and do a few weeks military service every year?max wrote:
I'm in Europe and I'll keep my perfectly legal guns
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
guns should stay banned in russia. it's too easy for those things would fall into the wrong hands in here - the possilibily of every drunken faggot out there being able to carry an AK with him is just scary.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
That's rightBraddock wrote:
Is it true you guys have to keep weapons and a certain amount of ammo in the house and do a few weeks military service every year?max wrote:
I'm in Europe and I'll keep my perfectly legal guns
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
some people actually don't get ammo anymore, not that it changes anything since I can just go to a hardware store, show my ID (just to prove that I am a Swiss citizen) and get as much (government subsidized ) ammo as I want
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
Great country... I like how you guys do business! You have pretty damn respectable gun-related homicide statistics too which could suggest that your attitude towards firearms is a healthy one, one more in tune with Nationalist pride and National defence rather than crime and fear of attack from criminals.max wrote:
That's rightBraddock wrote:
Is it true you guys have to keep weapons and a certain amount of ammo in the house and do a few weeks military service every year?max wrote:
I'm in Europe and I'll keep my perfectly legal guns
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
some people actually don't get ammo anymore, not that it changes anything since I can just go to a hardware store, show my ID (just to prove that I am a Swiss citizen) and get as much (government subsidized ) ammo as I want
I'd be interested in moving to Switzerland when i'm older (or Bayern). Once i (hypothetically) become a full Swiss Citizen, would i (hypothetically) get the gun etc?max wrote:
That's rightBraddock wrote:
Is it true you guys have to keep weapons and a certain amount of ammo in the house and do a few weeks military service every year?max wrote:
I'm in Europe and I'll keep my perfectly legal guns
*proud owner of an army rifle and a 9mm pistol*
some people actually don't get ammo anymore, not that it changes anything since I can just go to a hardware store, show my ID (just to prove that I am a Swiss citizen) and get as much (government subsidized ) ammo as I want
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
I believe the only difference is that the 10/63's were imported with the slant brake and bayonet lug, they are all $400 guns (or, rather, $800 now that Barry is the prez elect).lowing wrote:
Mine is also a WASR-10 but I do not remember any numbers after the "10", what does the 63 designate?
I really like their system too, although I've heard there is a lot of pressure from above to reform the whole armed militia system that they have and lock up all the weapons with the military. I'm pretty sure the average Swiss citizen would not support that. No clue if it's likely, but I know they talk about it a lot. The UN would certainly prefer it.Braddock wrote:
Great country... I like how you guys do business! You have pretty damn respectable gun-related homicide statistics too which could suggest that your attitude towards firearms is a healthy one, one more in tune with Nationalist pride and National defense rather than crime and fear of attack from criminals.
FEOS wrote:
Oh. My. God.
I agree completely with MJ.
Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-11-25 08:28:12)
That's true. Then again we don't really have a problem with crime. Primarily we have guns for fun and for defending the country. Even if we do use it for defense, we're taught to not shoot unless it is necessary. No criminal in their right mind would try anything stupid if a rifle is pointed at their head. If they run, you're safe and they are bound to be caught. The country is tiny and you can't really hide.Braddock wrote:
Great country... I like how you guys do business! You have pretty damn respectable gun-related homicide statistics too which could suggest that your attitude towards firearms is a healthy one, one more in tune with Nationalist pride and National defence rather than crime and fear of attack from criminals.
Sure thing. The process of acquiring a gun is controlled by the canton, but generally you don't need anything to buy a gun from a private person. To buy one from a shop, you need to go to your city and they'll give you a buying license after checking your criminal record. On that license, you can buy as many guns as you want.FatherTed wrote:
I'd be interested in moving to Switzerland when i'm older (or Bayern). Once i (hypothetically) become a full Swiss Citizen, would i (hypothetically) get the gun etc?
Plus there are no laws against foreigners using guns. You just can't own one. Same thing applies for kids. You can't buy a gun until you're 18, but you can always shoot one. I shot my first gun with 6
Good thing that they'll need to do a vote on that. I don't see how the government will be able to get a majority for that, especially with the conservatives getting stronger each day. We had several votes on reforming the army in the past years and they did not only not pass, but rather get demolishedMarinejuana wrote:
I really like their system too, although I've heard there is a lot of pressure from above to reform the whole armed militia system that they have and lock up all the weapons with the military. I'm pretty sure the average Swiss citizen would not support that. No clue if it's likely, but I know they talk about it a lot. The UN would certainly prefer it.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/revolver.jpg
oh and fuck the UN. We should have stayed out of that mess
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.