unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7033|PNW

Encountered an interesting article recently:

http://kalaalog.com/2007/07/19/top-3-re … photoshop/

As a response to the No More Photoshop - Use GIMP, in the comment section and also through other mediums, I think I can sum up the top three reasons why Photoshop is pirated.

1)a There are features in Photoshop that are not available in Open Source alternatives. Adobe has invested a lot of research and filled features into its products that make life much easier to do many tasks for the professionals in the field. Open Source alternatives like GIMP lack built in features like CMYK support (which is quite important for print) or more basic things like grouping layers.
2)a Adobe has priced Photoshop too high - it is impossible to use it for hobbyists. Shelling out a $600 on Adobe Photoshop is far away from being thrift when the use is for minor touch ups of photos or creating banners for use in forums and other social websites. If they had priced it lower, many would have considered buying it and using it legally.
3)a Who cares if it is piracy? After all, Adobe can not come after each and every one of us for running priated version of Photoshop on our PCs. Running legal versions of software is something corporations and companies need to worry about.

In spite of these reasons, I am going to stand by my word. I do not condone pirating software - be it Photoshop or something else. I will try to give my views on each of these ‘justifications’ for using pirated Photoshop.

1)b It is true that Photoshop has features that is not present in another Open Source software. But most of the features can be found in a number of softwares put together. You might not be able to get all features - but you sure can get the features that is really necessary. For example, CMYK support can be got into GIMP by using a plugin. If you need to use a lot of vectors in an artwork - move it over to Inkscape. If you need to do digital painting - ArtRage should be sufficient for most of the work.
2)b Adobe has put a rather heavy price tag on Photoshop. But that does not mean it is legal for us to pirate the software. There are many things that are costly and getting them with out paying for them is considered stealing. And if you are just using it for honing your skills or doodling, why do you need Photoshop. As a member of one of the forums I frequent, (Kyle) said:
If someone is doodling for fun, why doodle with Photoshop? Its like learning to drive in a Ferrari?
3)b There is no real arguing with this. It is just ones conscience that can answer that. I can not create an artwork with a pirated software and display it as my creation.

Use the software you can afford - open source or other wise and improve your skills. Once you get ‘pro’, you can afford Photoshop. Priacy is not the way to go.
I can counter some of the anti-pirating stuff. If you're an art student, $600 for Photoshop, or exponentially more if your classes use any of the other Adobe programs is tantamount to usury, and with something as easy to steal as software, pirating is a resonable response from the public. If you're an 'official' art student, even the reduced pricing is nasty. You could argue that it's possible to stay in after class to use their computers, but it isn't always so. First, the room might be shared with another class, and second, security won't usually (at all, in my experience) let you stay and work after closing hours.

"If someone is doodling for fun, why doodle with Photoshop? it's like learning to drive in a Ferrari?" - Granted, but if you have any intention of going pro, why waste time learning an application with a completely different layout than Photoshop's? Your time is better invested in skill and technique, not memorizing where various buttons are, and it will hurt you if you find an opening for a job that uses Adobe...but don't know Adobe. Or to use the quote's style, why learn to drive a Pinto if you're going to be driving Ferraris? But it sounds pretty irrelevant to compare autos with a medium that you can't crash into a maple tree.

As far as morals are concerned, once you decide to sell your first work, you should buy the software. Most of the pricing is for production licensing anyhow.
The_Sniper_NM
Official EVGA Fanboy
+94|6375|SC | USA |
Thats right. Most people buy it from a stor or rent it.


Edited for fags

Last edited by The_Sniper_NM (2009-03-23 08:59:06)

Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|7000|Toronto | Canada

The_Sniper_NM wrote:

Thats right. Most people buy it from a store or rent it.
Well played
CanadianLoser
Meow :3 :3
+1,148|6769

Winston_Churchill wrote:

The_Sniper_NM wrote:

Thats right. Most people buy it from a store or rent it.
Well played
toreent
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5847

Ok.
Now Adobe puts the price tag so high because so many people are pirating yet people pirate Photoshop because the price tag is so high.
It's a viscous circle.
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6783|...

Macbeth wrote:

Ok.
Now Adobe puts the price tag so high because so many people are pirating yet people pirate Photoshop because the price tag is so high.
It's a viscous circle.
I don't think it has ever been cheap
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5847

jsnipy wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Ok.
Now Adobe puts the price tag so high because so many people are pirating yet people pirate Photoshop because the price tag is so high.
It's a viscous circle.
I don't think it has ever been cheap
Hmm I think you might be right. I tried to find info on the price of the first Photoshop. I can't but it seems you needed a high end computer to run it. The high price might have been since it was designed for use by people with a good amount of cash to drop on something like it.

But still the high price tag is going to drive people away from buying it.
Mr.Dooomed
Find your center.
+752|6589

I got a student copy, and its the third time I've installed it on my computer, and once on my laptop. Now, it wont activate because apparently I used up all my install times

Greeeeeat. So ya, thanks Adobe. I'll have to contact them soon.
Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6809|San Diego, CA, USA
They should change their pricing model:

1) Make a 'free' version that has almost all the features for 'private use only' (better than GIMP, but not the same as today)
2) Make a 'commercial version' with all the whiz-bang features up the whazzoo that costs alot more


Any student or hobbyist will be fine using the 'free version'.  And when their company needs to buy the software that they are so good on, guess which on you're going to recommend?  That's right, the commercial version.


Any MBAs out there can confirm that this is a justified pricing model?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6862|132 and Bush

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

As far as morals are concerned, once you decide to sell your first work, you should buy the software. Most of the pricing is for production licensing anyhow.
A have a few friends that are graphic artist and that is exactly what they did. If you are using it for commercial purposes it's even more imperative that you get it licensed.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
BVC
Member
+325|6956
The price of software is getting prohibitive these days.

Hell, for the price of Windows + Office + Photoshop you can buy an entire brand-new PC...
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6809|San Diego, CA, USA
Thus the reason why many more than usual are going to open source software like GIMP, Open Office, etc....  People who never considered Linux are giving it a try.

However, as a serious gamer you really don't have a choice but to stay with some brand of Windows.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6977
Photoshop costs as much as the latest graphics card... That price is way way too high, if its 70 bucks then I would see more people buying it instead of pirating.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6926|NT, like Mick Dundee

Harmor wrote:

Thus the reason why many more than usual are going to open source software like GIMP, Open Office, etc....  People who never considered Linux are giving it a try.

However, as a serious gamer you really don't have a choice but to stay with some brand of Windows.
Buy OEM editions of the older version windows operating systems.


XP is fine for gaming atm if you aren't fussed about DX 10 and it costs about half of what vista does (I think).
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6809|San Diego, CA, USA
Microsoft is being a dick about those OEM copies.  I would suspect that a good percentage of those 'OEM' copies are actually bootlegs, but I can't prove it.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6977

Harmor wrote:

Microsoft is being a dick about those OEM copies.  I would suspect that a good percentage of those 'OEM' copies are actually bootlegs, but I can't prove it.
OEMS aren't that hard to find actually.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6936|Canberra, AUS

The_Sniper_NM wrote:

Thats right. Most people buy it from a stor or rent it.


Edited for fags
Think you're missing an r there mate.

Software is ridiculously priced. That a piece of software can cost more than the machine that runs it is ludicrous, in my opinion.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6367|eXtreme to the maX
Depends on the software. High end CAD software cost many times more than the machine.
Adobe are just protecting their profit.
Wasn't there a Photoshop LE or similar for a while?
Fuck Israel
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6414|what

I use gimp.

There is nothing wrong with open source at all.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6910

Adobe don't care if individual users pirate it. Don't care might be a bit strong, but they don't go out of their way to actively persue people who do, nor do they seem to put much effort into preventing cracks and keygens. They make there money on selling multi-licenses to businesses, and as far as they're concerned, if you've used their products all your life at home you're going to want to continue with them when you're working.

EDIT: inb4angryrantfromParker

Last edited by ghettoperson (2009-03-24 08:42:05)

BVC
Member
+325|6956
With the global economy being the way it is, free software is proably going to see a huge rise in popularity.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6758

Dilbert_X wrote:

Depends on the software. High end CAD software cost many times more than the machine.

Wasn't there a Photoshop LE or similar for a while?
Photoshop elements. i work @ a civil engineering outfit, and you don't
want to know what they're getting for CAD platforms, and specialized applications.
This week i've installed software worth more than i will make in the next two years.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6977

Spark wrote:

The_Sniper_NM wrote:

Thats right. Most people buy it from a stor or rent it.


Edited for fags
Think you're missing an r there mate.

Software is ridiculously priced. That a piece of software can cost more than the machine that runs it is ludicrous, in my opinion.
No hes not.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6811|CH/BR - in UK

It's called the Student/Home version. I saw a package that offers:
  • Adobe Dreamweaver CS4
  • Adobe Flash CS4 Professional
  • Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended
  • Adobe Illustrator CS4
  • Adobe Fireworks CS4
  • Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro
  • Adobe Soundbooth CS4
  • Adobe Contribute CS4

for $350. That's a lot of software, and seeing as there are at least 5 fully fledged products in there, it definitely isn't too expensive. I'm not saying I can afford it (yet), but at least I'm not pretending like there isn't a solution out there. Many pirates make excuses for themselves to try to justify their actions.

Oh, and GIMP sucks ass. Problem with a lot of open source is that it's made my engineers who don't understand how to make UIs, and that not everyone thinks exactly the same as they do. Adobe, and many other software developers have test groups. Open source products need to add these to the process.

-kon
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7033|PNW

Harmor wrote:

Thus the reason why many more than usual are going to open source software like GIMP, Open Office, etc....  People who never considered Linux are giving it a try.

However, as a serious gamer you really don't have a choice but to stay with some brand of Windows.
Not always practical if you're trying to swap files back and forth between people who may or may not have those programs. In my experience, cross-compatibility has never been 100%. Something always goes wrong from one save or open to the other. I gave up trying to move the bulk of my business machines to Open Office, because I don't have time to ass around looking for Office 2007 compatibility hotfixes and wondering whether or not they'll work.

konfusion wrote:

It's called the Student/Home version. I saw a package that offers:
  • Adobe Dreamweaver CS4
  • Adobe Flash CS4 Professional
  • Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended
  • Adobe Illustrator CS4
  • Adobe Fireworks CS4
  • Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro
  • Adobe Soundbooth CS4
  • Adobe Contribute CS4

for $350. That's a lot of software, and seeing as there are at least 5 fully fledged products in there, it definitely isn't too expensive. I'm not saying I can afford it (yet), but at least I'm not pretending like there isn't a solution out there. Many pirates make excuses for themselves to try to justify their actions.

Oh, and GIMP sucks ass. Problem with a lot of open source is that it's made my engineers who don't understand how to make UIs, and that not everyone thinks exactly the same as they do. Adobe, and many other software developers have test groups. Open source products need to add these to the process.

-kon
Really? The $400 student version in the US has these:

Adobe InDesign CS4
Adobe Photoshop CS4 Extended
Adobe Illustrator CS4
Adobe Flash CS4 Professional
Adobe Dreamweaver CS4
Adobe Fireworks CS4
Adobe Acrobat 9 Pro

ghettoperson wrote:

Adobe don't care if individual users pirate it. Don't care might be a bit strong, but they don't go out of their way to actively persue people who do, nor do they seem to put much effort into preventing cracks and keygens. They make there money on selling multi-licenses to businesses, and as far as they're concerned, if you've used their products all your life at home you're going to want to continue with them when you're working.

EDIT: inb4angryrantfromParker
Yup. This is the unofficial statement you'll get from most art professors.

If I had a ton of spare change rattling around, I'd go out and buy the Master Collection...as soon as I was finished putting together all the actual hardware and workshop space I want. So for now, I'm sticking to Photoshop 7 with its creepy ring around the eye loading image.

edit: wow, didn't knwo this was moved to debate

Pubic wrote:

The price of software is getting prohibitive these days.

Hell, for the price of Windows + Office + Photoshop you can buy an entire brand-new PC...
I hate to say it, but Apple's Logic Studio is reasonably priced for its contents, even if it is offset by the cost of their computers. It's not just the software, but all the samples as well...

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-03-24 23:54:14)

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