Teen's mom questions Patriot Act

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Teen's mom questions Patriot Act

2009-05-06 14:14:21

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6937|Global Command

"We have no rights under the Patriot Act to even defend them, because the Patriot Act basically supersedes the Constitution," she said. "It wasn't intended to drag your barely 16-year-old, 120-pound son out in the middle of the night on a charge that we can't even defend."

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5049867

Internet hijinks's gone wrong?
Disgusting misuse of federal authority?

Why did they have to come in with guns, all heavy handed like?

I guess some of us should mind what we post.

Two months behind bars with no charges, no explanation? No Contact with the parents?

How fast we have fallen so far.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/5050332/

2009-05-06 14:25:27

El Beardo: steel woolly mammoth; +150|6128|Gulf Coast

Poor family, pretty scary stuff tbh.

Important

2009-05-06 14:26:17

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|7101

There should be some clause that makes the Patriot Act only applicable to federal investigations that have more weight than something like a bomb threat. Places all over receive bomb threats all of the time. In such a case where the subject of the investigation does not fit the profile nor has a history of violence or radical behavior, then regular law and due process should be used.

2009-05-06 14:31:56

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6937|Global Command

Related in the long view;

The Obama administration is spearheading the charge the guns used in mexican cartel violence come from U.S. gun stores.
The will be used as an excuse to curtail our rights. Remember that boys face and think about him whenever politicians call for new laws and powers.

2009-05-06 14:32:21

Mutantbear: Semi Constructive Criticism; +1,431|6373|London, England

I don't believe in guns

what a dumb statement, you could say I don't want my kids shooting or handling guns but I don't want them in my house because I don't believe in them.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

2009-05-06 14:38:56

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

He isn't going to get due process? How is this different from Youssef Megahed or the fort dix guys? .. all of them received due process.

BTW "someone stole my IP" ...

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 14:39:42

Ioan92: Member; +337|6131

Only in America.

2009-05-06 14:41:09

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6937|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:
He isn't going to get due process? How is this different from Youssef Megahed or the fort dix guys? .. all of them received due process.

BTW "someone stole my IP" ...

He is a minor.

2009-05-06 14:41:44

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

Ioan92 wrote:
Only in America.

I hope your kidding..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … tnG=Search

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 14:43:21

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
He isn't going to get due process? How is this different from Youssef Megahed or the fort dix guys? .. all of them received due process.

BTW "someone stole my IP" ...
He is a minor.

2 months in Juvy for making bomb threats? Maybe a bit harsh but not crazy.

Is he going to get due process?

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 14:51:08

Ioan92: Member; +337|6131

Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Only in America.
I hope your kidding..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … tnG=Search

Wait I don't get it, you're talking about real bomb attacks or midnight house raids?

2009-05-06 14:54:43

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Only in America.
I hope your kidding..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … tnG=Search
Wait I don't get it, you're talking about real bomb attacks or midnight 10 p.m house raids?

False and overt actions regarding bomb threats. The entire world is awash in them. I linked you to acquittals.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 14:57:11

imortal: Member; +240|7073|Austin, TX

Of course, every mother is convinced that their kid is as pure as fresh-fallen snow. The majority of the article was her ill-informed whinings. This sort of thing also happened before the Patriot Act (well, Patriot Law) was enacted.

Oh, excuse me officer. No, no crime being commited here. I live here; you can trust me. He is a good boy.

Oh, officer? I don't believe in guns. Could you take those scary things out of here?

Sorry officer; you must have been given wrong information. My son would never do anything like that. He is a good boy.

My son must have been framed! He is a good boy.

Now, if it turns out to be a false arrest, I am sure the agency in question will appologize and release the boy. But if they find anything on his computer that links him to the threats, do you think this mother will admit that just maybe they may have done the right thing(if a bit forcably?)

No, I didn't think so either.

Oh, and if all they had was the IP addy leading to a physical location (and maybe a name), they would not have any idea what to expect inside. I would have gone in hell-for-leather too.

2009-05-06 15:02:49

Ioan92: Member; +337|6131

Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:

I hope your kidding..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … tnG=Search
Wait I don't get it, you're talking about real bomb attacks or midnight 10 p.m house raids?
False and overt actions regarding bomb threats. The entire world is awash in them. I linked you to acquittals.

Do they even have proof or was it some sarcastic "I R GON BOMB U" message?

Also, does any other country do this at the first "probably sarcastic" proof?

2009-05-06 15:05:34

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7123|US

That's rather concerning...
I'd certainly be interested in the real facts of the case. You don't hold US citizens without charges or trial...

2009-05-06 15:08:58

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Wait I don't get it, you're talking about real bomb attacks or midnight 10 p.m house raids?
False and overt actions regarding bomb threats. The entire world is awash in them. I linked you to acquittals.
Do they even have proof or was it some sarcastic "I R GON BOMB U" message?

Also, does any other country do this at the first "probably sarcastic" proof?

That is why I have asked about due process. They at least have proof that the threats were made from his IP.

You are making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. But yea, other countries might. Are you really being serious when you say "only in America". Are you really that blind?

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 15:24:19

Ioan92: Member; +337|6131

Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:

False and overt actions regarding bomb threats. The entire world is awash in them. I linked you to acquittals.
Do they even have proof or was it some sarcastic "I R GON BOMB U" message?

Also, does any other country do this at the first "probably sarcastic" proof?
That is why I have asked about due process. They at least have proof that the threats were made from his IP.

You are making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. But yea, other countries might. Are you really being serious when you say "only in America". Are you really that blind?

Now that you said it, my argument doesn't really stand anymore if such absurdity is widespread on a global scale.

We must live in a very fucked up world if you can get arrested & locked up without trial for saying "I'm going to bomb you". This is fucking outrageous.

I also think it is time to try and understand why there is "terrorism".

2009-05-06 15:29:39

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Do they even have proof or was it some sarcastic "I R GON BOMB U" message?

Also, does any other country do this at the first "probably sarcastic" proof?
That is why I have asked about due process. They at least have proof that the threats were made from his IP.

You are making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. But yea, other countries might. Are you really being serious when you say "only in America". Are you really that blind?
Now that you said it, my argument doesn't really stand anymore if such absurdity is widespread on a global scale.

We must live in a very fucked up world if you can get arrested & locked up without trial for saying "I'm going to bomb you". This is fucking outrageous.

I also think it is time to try and understand why there is "terrorism".

It happens almost daily.. way too often, globally. That is why due process is so important.

THE two remaining suspects among 12 mostly Pakistani men arrested during a major anti-terror operation in northwest England this month have been released without charge today, police say.

A police spokesman said the men were 41 and 23 years old.

Their release comes just hours after police handed over nine other men, aged between 22 and 38, to the UK Border Agency without charging them.

One 18-year-old student was released to the immigration authorities three days after the raids.

"All of the suspects arrested by the North West Counter Terrorism Unit during the recent operation have now been released,'' Greater Manchester Police said.

The 12 were arrested on April 8 in pre-dawn swoops in Manchester and Liverpool.

Of the group, 11 were Pakistani nationals, 10 had student visas and one was from Britain.

Police said that of the 12 men, 11 were now in the custody of British immigration officials, who have said they will be deported.

The police statement said prosecutors had advised that there was "insufficient evidence gathered within the permitted timescales which would have allowed a warrant of further detention to be gathered or charges to be pursued.''

Prime Minister Gordon Brown had said police were investigating a "major terrorist plot'', and police defended the arrests on Tuesday on the grounds of public safety.

The anti-terror raids had to be brought forward after Britain's top counter-terrorism policeman was photographed holding clearly legible briefing notes on the operation.

He resigned over the gaffe.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st … 77,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/world … ref=europe
http://www.zeenews.com/news529523.html

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 15:40:10

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|7101

Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
That is why I have asked about due process. They at least have proof that the threats were made from his IP.

You are making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. But yea, other countries might. Are you really being serious when you say "only in America". Are you really that blind?
Now that you said it, my argument doesn't really stand anymore if such absurdity is widespread on a global scale.

We must live in a very fucked up world if you can get arrested & locked up without trial for saying "I'm going to bomb you". This is fucking outrageous.

I also think it is time to try and understand why there is "terrorism".
It happens almost daily.. way too often, globally. That is why due process is so important.

THE two remaining suspects among 12 mostly Pakistani men arrested during a major anti-terror operation in northwest England this month have been released without charge today, police say.

A police spokesman said the men were 41 and 23 years old.

Their release comes just hours after police handed over nine other men, aged between 22 and 38, to the UK Border Agency without charging them.

One 18-year-old student was released to the immigration authorities three days after the raids.

"All of the suspects arrested by the North West Counter Terrorism Unit during the recent operation have now been released,'' Greater Manchester Police said.

The 12 were arrested on April 8 in pre-dawn swoops in Manchester and Liverpool.

Of the group, 11 were Pakistani nationals, 10 had student visas and one was from Britain.

Police said that of the 12 men, 11 were now in the custody of British immigration officials, who have said they will be deported.

The police statement said prosecutors had advised that there was "insufficient evidence gathered within the permitted timescales which would have allowed a warrant of further detention to be gathered or charges to be pursued.''

Prime Minister Gordon Brown had said police were investigating a "major terrorist plot'', and police defended the arrests on Tuesday on the grounds of public safety.

The anti-terror raids had to be brought forward after Britain's top counter-terrorism policeman was photographed holding clearly legible briefing notes on the operation.

He resigned over the gaffe.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st … 77,00.html
http://i42.tinypic.com/15dxws0.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/world … ref=europe
http://www.zeenews.com/news529523.html

At least they made it seem more legitimate by arresting 12 Pakis, not a good ol' boy.

This is what makes all of this so difficult. When does a suspect fit the profile? And what is the profile? And how does fitting a certain profile make one more eligible for such a thing with out significant evidence?

Last edited by Superior Mind (2009-05-06 15:41:54)

2009-05-06 15:45:53

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7057

I'm sure he did it, but that doesn't make the Patriot Act right.

2009-05-06 15:54:16

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7009|132 and Bush

Superior Mind wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Now that you said it, my argument doesn't really stand anymore if such absurdity is widespread on a global scale.

We must live in a very fucked up world if you can get arrested & locked up without trial for saying "I'm going to bomb you". This is fucking outrageous.

I also think it is time to try and understand why there is "terrorism".
It happens almost daily.. way too often, globally. That is why due process is so important.

THE two remaining suspects among 12 mostly Pakistani men arrested during a major anti-terror operation in northwest England this month have been released without charge today, police say.

A police spokesman said the men were 41 and 23 years old.

Their release comes just hours after police handed over nine other men, aged between 22 and 38, to the UK Border Agency without charging them.

One 18-year-old student was released to the immigration authorities three days after the raids.

"All of the suspects arrested by the North West Counter Terrorism Unit during the recent operation have now been released,'' Greater Manchester Police said.

The 12 were arrested on April 8 in pre-dawn swoops in Manchester and Liverpool.

Of the group, 11 were Pakistani nationals, 10 had student visas and one was from Britain.

Police said that of the 12 men, 11 were now in the custody of British immigration officials, who have said they will be deported.

The police statement said prosecutors had advised that there was "insufficient evidence gathered within the permitted timescales which would have allowed a warrant of further detention to be gathered or charges to be pursued.''

Prime Minister Gordon Brown had said police were investigating a "major terrorist plot'', and police defended the arrests on Tuesday on the grounds of public safety.

The anti-terror raids had to be brought forward after Britain's top counter-terrorism policeman was photographed holding clearly legible briefing notes on the operation.

He resigned over the gaffe.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st … 77,00.html
http://i42.tinypic.com/15dxws0.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/world … ref=europe
http://www.zeenews.com/news529523.html
At least they made it seem more legitimate by arresting 12 Pakis, not a good ol' boy.

This is what makes all of this so difficult. When does a suspect fit the profile? And what is the profile? And how does fitting a certain profile make one more eligible for such a thing with out significant evidence?

Would it make you feel better if the kid was brown? I find that line of reasoning even more disturbing. The underlying premise is the same. In fact I'm not so sure that the kid isn't going to be charged.

@ghetto, Surveillance is only one part of the act. It was revised significantly in 2006 to address the civil liberties issues, but I think it still needs some work.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2009-05-06 16:02:39

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|7101

Kmarion wrote:
Superior Mind wrote:
Kmarion wrote:
Ioan92 wrote:
Now that you said it, my argument doesn't really stand anymore if such absurdity is widespread on a global scale.

We must live in a very fucked up world if you can get arrested & locked up without trial for saying "I'm going to bomb you". This is fucking outrageous.

I also think it is time to try and understand why there is "terrorism".
It happens almost daily.. way too often, globally. That is why due process is so important.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st … 77,00.html
http://i42.tinypic.com/15dxws0.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/world … ref=europe
http://www.zeenews.com/news529523.html
At least they made it seem more legitimate by arresting 12 Pakis, not a good ol' boy.

This is what makes all of this so difficult. When does a suspect fit the profile? And what is the profile? And how does fitting a certain profile make one more eligible for such a thing with out significant evidence?
Would it make you feel better if the kid was brown? I find that line of reasoning even more disturbing. The underlying premise is the same. In fact I'm not so sure that the kid isn't going to be charged.

@ghetto, Surveillance is only one part of the act. It was revised significantly in 2006 to address the civil liberties issues, but I think it still needs some work.

I was pointing out the major flaw in it all. I wouldn't prefer the kid be brown.

2009-05-06 16:15:05

Diesel_dyk: Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears; +178|6403|Truthistan

If someone thinks that the Patriot Act supercedes the constitution then they are really deluded. Almost as deluded as those "lawyer liar letters" authorizing torture. I guess some people still think that if the president does it then its not illegal.

I bet defense lawyers don't want to get involved in this one, too expensive and dangerous to ones career.

This case reeks really really badly.
Where is the ACLU on this one? They should be able to wipe Bush's ass with the patriot act and make him smell it.

That is one issue I still find confusing, if you are truly a conservative who believes in small government, then you really should be a strong supporter of individual rights, especially due process rights. The bill of rights is the first line of defense against big govt.

Where have all the real conservatives gone in this country??????

2009-05-06 18:41:25

oug: Calmer than you are.; +380|6927|Πάϊ

Isn't that what you wanted when you voted for it? lol

Life's a bitch innit

_ƒ³

2009-05-06 18:44:17

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|7101

oug wrote:
Isn't that what you wanted when you voted for it? lol

Life's a bitch innit

I don't remember voting for that. I don't remember any of my peers or relatives voting for that.

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Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

oug wrote:

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