[TF2] The Sniper/Spy Update

2009-05-21 10:03:34

#401

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6725

Spidery_Yoda wrote:
But then you end up in a game where newcomers have inferior weapons to the people who are already better at the game.

Which isn't good.

Yep yep.

Currently, most of the unlocks are side grades (Blutsauger and Axetinguisher are just better than their counterparts though) meaning that you can still be effective if you just got the game. If all the guns were the Blutsauger, it would suck.

Let's look at Natasha. She slows enemies down, which is really useful, but she also doesn't do much damage. You're only getting crits between 2 and 10 % of the time anyway so removing crits would not have a large negative impact on the usefulness of the weapon as decreasing the damage all around. Or let's look at a more interesting case; The BackBurner. It already has random crits removed, so if it didn't not have the compression blast, it would just be an all around better flamethrower.

tl;dr Blutsauger is OP, other unlocks not so much.

2009-05-21 10:06:00

#402

Spidery_Yoda: Member; +399|6527

Some eagle eyes at SUF have noticed that the Sniper on the update page now has a scar from the fight in Meet the Spy

http://www.teamfortress.com/sniper_vs_spy/english.htm

I wonder if they'll update the playermodel.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Lets just try and forget that it was a Red spy and Blu Sniper in the vid

2009-05-21 11:06:33

#403

Bevo: Nah; +718|6778|Austin, Texas

As far as increasing the skill ceiling - I think the ambassador will do such, and the bow and arrow should as well. Of course secondary unlocks aren't going to be terribly useful - they're secondary unlocks. I don't mind that the unlocks don't really change gameplay, because A) class packs are still coming out months apart, and B) major changes in gameplay need to be checked and balanced in EVERY aspect.

A lot of you don't play, but a good example is EVE online. Whines occur on forums, the devs answer the whines 18 months later, but forget how much the changes effect other aspects of the game, making the game even more imbalanced before the fix.

The fact that valve plans a lot more than these class updates means that hope remains for alternatives. Random weapon drops may not achieve this, but if Valve ever goes for a second update for each class, they might go with some more "skill ceiling" updates rather than "gimmick" updates, to keep old players around.

2009-05-21 11:08:28

#404

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6725

Personally I think that Valve should lower the "skill ceiling", currently it really doesn't take much skill to play all of the classes save Sniper, which means that a sufficiently skilled sniper is too powerful. Hopefully the way the normal Sniper rifle works will be adjusted so that he's less effective in the hands of a skilled player.

2009-05-21 11:18:19

#405

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6727

DoctaStrangelove wrote:
Personally I think that Valve should lower the "skill ceiling", currently it really doesn't take much skill to play all of the classes save Sniper, which means that a sufficiently skilled sniper is too powerful. Hopefully the way the normal Sniper rifle works will be adjusted so that he's less effective in the hands of a skilled player.

...

Hahaha.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2009-05-21 11:19:27

#406

NooBesT: Pizzahitler; +873|6726

Personally I think Uzique's opinion doesn't matter.

2009-05-21 11:22:26

#407

Kez: Member; +778|5960|London, UK

Personally I think all of you should shut up thanks

2009-05-21 11:24:11

#408

Bevo: Nah; +718|6778|Austin, Texas

DoctaStrangelove wrote:
Personally I think that Valve should lower the "skill ceiling", currently it really doesn't take much skill to play all of the classes save Sniper, which means that a sufficiently skilled sniper is too powerful. Hopefully the way the normal Sniper rifle works will be adjusted so that he's less effective in the hands of a skilled player.

I disagree.

Spy and Engineer are the most opponent-dependent classes there are. Even awesome engineers can be thwarted by a demo with a clue, or any plain old uber. Spy, while an awesome "pub-star" class, will always be limited by your opponents' awareness. An enemy team that is constantly looking for spies and checking will mean no matter how awesome you are, you're not going to do great.

Skilled demomen and soldiers are things to fear, I'll tell you. You don't see them often, but there was a 150hr soldier in a pub the other day, rocket jumping like crazy getting good angles to shoot from. I'm a pretty darn good pyro (airblast and such), but I was no match for him. Good scouts too, man.

Heavy and medic are a bit limited (heavy by movement speed, medic by... usefulness), because most of it is point, click, and hope the enemy team doesn't kill you. Sure, good medics will have good survivability and good heavies will ambush at the right time, but the difference between an average heavy and a great heavy is minimal.

2009-05-21 11:28:58

#409

DefCon-17: Maple Syrup Faggot; +362|6413|Vancouver | Canada

Bevo wrote:
DoctaStrangelove wrote:
Personally I think that Valve should lower the "skill ceiling", currently it really doesn't take much skill to play all of the classes save Sniper, which means that a sufficiently skilled sniper is too powerful. Hopefully the way the normal Sniper rifle works will be adjusted so that he's less effective in the hands of a skilled player.
I disagree.

Spy and Engineer are the most opponent-dependent classes there are. Even awesome engineers can be thwarted by a demo with a clue, or any plain old uber. Spy, while an awesome "pub-star" class, will always be limited by your opponents' awareness. An enemy team that is constantly looking for spies and checking will mean no matter how awesome you are, you're not going to do great.

Skilled demomen and soldiers are things to fear, I'll tell you. You don't see them often, but there was a 150hr soldier in a pub the other day, rocket jumping like crazy getting good angles to shoot from. I'm a pretty darn good pyro (airblast and such), but I was no match for him. Good scouts too, man.

Heavy and medic are a bit limited (heavy by movement speed, medic by... usefulness), because most of it is point, click, and hope the enemy team doesn't kill you. Sure, good medics will have good survivability and good heavies will ambush at the right time, but the difference between an average heavy and a great heavy is minimal.

God....good Scouts. I hate them.

95% of Scout players are predictable as fuck, and so make it easy for you to shove a few rockets down their throat.
..But the good ones: hopeless.

As for Spy: Hit a paranoid player while he's in combat, or dropstab him from a height.

2009-05-21 11:43:57

#410

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6727

NooBesT wrote:
Personally I think Uzique's opinion doesn't matter.

Because I'm not shit and pub-dependant like you are? .

Bevo has a bit more of a clue- there's a huge 'skill ceiling' for most classes: Sniper, Scout, Solly, Demo, Medic... just you never experience them or scale them in the spammy no-clue no-effort public server domain. Two very different games.

Last edited by Uzique (2009-05-21 11:44:10)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2009-05-21 11:44:51

#411

SamBo:D: Banned; +236|5754|England

I think TF2 is a good game

2009-05-21 11:53:50

#412

Sisco: grandmaster league revivalist; +493|6600

I still don´t see what the problem is. He´s a professional, so he conserves resources. If my buddy was on fire and there would be no water or dirt or fire blankets available, I´d piss on him too. And if a jellyfish stings you you HAVE to do it too if no immediate help is available. It´s just pee, no child raping.

and what the hell is all this talk anyway. its a FUCKEN CARTOON GAME GODAMNIT!!
They are all mentally sick. No one complained about the soldier blowing the spy´s head off out of suspicion.

https://www.abload.de/img/bf3-bf2ssig0250wvn.jpg

2009-05-21 12:00:02

#413

Mutantbear: Semi Constructive Criticism; +1,431|6222|London, England

And at the end of the day YOU can choose what weapons to carry.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

2009-05-21 12:06:43

#414

NooBesT: Pizzahitler; +873|6726

Uzique wrote:
NooBesT wrote:
Personally I think Uzique's opinion doesn't matter.
Because I'm not shit and pub-dependant like you are? .

Bevo has a bit more of a clue- there's a huge 'skill ceiling' for most classes: Sniper, Scout, Solly, Demo, Medic... just you never experience them or scale them in the spammy no-clue no-effort public server domain. Two very different games.

Read my previous post.

2009-05-21 12:41:53

#415

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|6045|Catherine Black

Yer all dicks shut up and discuss the unlocks instead of saying how bad they could/would be/are.

2009-05-21 12:48:54

#416

Spidery_Yoda: Member; +399|6527

Ok.

I want to know how the Huntsman works.

Rate of fire?
Does the arrow arc and how much?
Damage?
How do the crits work?

There's so much we don't know about it.

2009-05-21 13:01:32

#417

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|6045|Catherine Black

Rate of fire? Slow
Does the arrow arc and how much? Hopefully not much
Damage? Lots
How do the crits work? Dunno

Other notes:

I hope it does as much damage noscoped as scoped in..

Last edited by Finray (2009-05-21 13:02:15)

2009-05-21 13:04:53

#418

Kez: Member; +778|5960|London, UK

Since when did a bow and arrow have a scope?

2009-05-21 13:08:58

#419

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6922|NT, like Mick Dundee

Guys who are going spaz about Jarate look at it this way...

You know how snipers IRL are meant to spend hours/days in one place, without moving........ Where exactly does their piss go? See, I've got this book written by an ex-Aussie SASR bloke who mentioned special forces soldiers 'not leaving any signs' so to speak.

Not saying I'm big on that kind of 'humour' at all. In any case seems like a pretty damn useful unlock to me. Does a lot of stuff, I can see jarate + bow + Fenris playing heavy being fun.

Last edited by Flecco (2009-05-21 13:20:35)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-05-21 13:22:51

#420

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|6045|Catherine Black

Kptk92 wrote:
Since when did a bow and arrow have a scope?

Infact, you can't noscope with a bow, the way you fire it..

2009-05-21 13:26:09

#421

Zukabazuka: Member; +23|6942

If you dont wanna leave any signs behind the last thing is you wanna do is throw your own pee at them. Why? DNA it got loads of it and with you throwing it on everyone you meet its not gonna go on for long.

Then he says, Be polite. why not give us an indian suit to while we are at it.

2009-05-21 13:37:22

#422

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6922|NT, like Mick Dundee

Zukabazuka wrote:
If you dont wanna leave any signs behind the last thing is you wanna do is throw your own pee at them. Why? DNA it got loads of it and with you throwing it on everyone you meet its not gonna go on for long.

Then he says, Be polite. why not give us an indian suit to while we are at it.

Ugh. Nvm.

I meant real snipers dude. You know, the fellas crawling around on mountains in Afghanistan setting up observation posts and shite?

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-05-21 13:38:17

#423

legionair: back to i-life; +336|6880|EU

Funny how are you trying to find logic in a game where is none and which is made just for rofl.

2009-05-21 13:41:40

#424

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6922|NT, like Mick Dundee

legionair wrote:
Funny how are you trying to find logic in a game where is none and which is made just for rofl.

Valve is taking the piss out of a stereotype from real life. So yes, logic does apply.

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-05-21 14:07:31

#425

NooBesT: Pizzahitler; +873|6726

Flecco wrote:
legionair wrote:
Funny how are you trying to find logic in a game where is none and which is made just for rofl.
Valve is taking the piss out of a stereotype from real life. So yes, logic does apply.

I see what you did there.

BF2S Forums [TF2] The Sniper/Spy Update

Spidery_Yoda wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Bevo wrote:

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

NooBesT wrote:

Uzique wrote:

NooBesT wrote:

Kptk92 wrote:

Zukabazuka wrote:

legionair wrote:

Flecco wrote:

legionair wrote:

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