Sorry yes they are. Period. To be a Muslim you have to practice elements of Islam. The word Muslim means 'practitioner of Islam'. Duh.lowing wrote:
Sorry no they are not. Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a person, an individual who shall be judged by his individual behavior and action not the action done by others in the name of, or approval by, their common religion.
If they were the same then they would not need to be differentiated by 2 distinct wordsCameronPoe wrote:
Sorry yes they are. Period. To be a Muslim you have to practice elements of Islam. The word Muslim means 'practitioner of Islam'. Duh.lowing wrote:
Sorry no they are not. Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a person, an individual who shall be judged by his individual behavior and action not the action done by others in the name of, or approval by, their common religion.
Islam is a religion Cam,
Muslim denotes an individual
I judge people on their merit and their action, not their label.
Muslims interpret the Koran as individuals or through Imams. The book itself preaches peace and tolerance on the on hand and violent retribution on the other: an irreconcilable contradiction. So no Islam, is not the problem - it's the individual's selective interpretation of it that is the problem.lowing wrote:
If they were the same then they would not need to be differentiated by 2 distinct wordsCameronPoe wrote:
Sorry yes they are. Period. To be a Muslim you have to practice elements of Islam. The word Muslim means 'practitioner of Islam'. Duh.lowing wrote:
Sorry no they are not. Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a person, an individual who shall be judged by his individual behavior and action not the action done by others in the name of, or approval by, their common religion.
Islam is a religion Cam,
Muslim denotes an individual
I judge people on their merit and their action, not their label.
/lowing confusion fixed
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-06 15:47:08)
Sorry Cam, Islam preaches violence intolerance and hatred. All practiced accordingly by the murder/child molester Muhammad. A person CELEBRATED AND REVERED by Islam and its followers. How they act on that celebration is an individual choice and the focus of judgement. However the religion itself holds the murder/child molester as its hero. Nothing you can do will spin that fact from the truth.CameronPoe wrote:
Muslims interpret the Koran as individuals or through Imams. The book itself preaches peace and tolerance on the on hand and violent retribution on the other: an irreconcilable contradiction. So no Islam, is not the problem - it's the individual's selective interpretation of it that is the problem.lowing wrote:
If they were the same then they would not need to be differentiated by 2 distinct wordsCameronPoe wrote:
Sorry yes they are. Period. To be a Muslim you have to practice elements of Islam. The word Muslim means 'practitioner of Islam'. Duh.
Islam is a religion Cam,
Muslim denotes an individual
I judge people on their merit and their action, not their label.
/lowing confusion fixed
Last edited by lowing (2009-06-06 17:03:18)
and god wiped cities from existance, moses drowned thousands of egyptians, nearly killed one of his sons. jesus was a prossie lover, and by all accounts was taken by long walks in the desert on LSD.
so what the fucks your point?
You're trying to put modern-day ethical values on something that happend thousands of years ago. Back then the average age was probably around 50 at best, shaggin little girls would have been the normal.
Bit. Of. Thought. Please.
so what the fucks your point?
You're trying to put modern-day ethical values on something that happend thousands of years ago. Back then the average age was probably around 50 at best, shaggin little girls would have been the normal.
Bit. Of. Thought. Please.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Well, I have tried before and it kept getting side stepped, but I will try again.FatherTed wrote:
and god wiped cities from existance, moses drowned thousands of egyptians, nearly killed one of his sons. jesus was a prossie lover, and by all accounts was taken by long walks in the desert on LSD.
so what the fucks your point?
You're trying to put modern-day ethical values on something that happend thousands of years ago. Back then the average age was probably around 50 at best, shaggin little girls would have been the normal.
Bit. Of. Thought. Please.
Do you really wanna compare the teachings and actions of Christ, the teachings and ACTIONS of CHRIST, THE TEACHING and ACTIONS OF CHRIST, with those of Muhammad?
Are you really trying to say that the words and actions of these 2 men are not relevent in their respective religions today? Wow
You mean life expectancy Ted m8.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
It also teaches peace and tolerance too. That's my fucking point. TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READINGlowing wrote:
Sorry Cam, Islam preaches violence intolerance and hatred. All practiced accordingly by the murder/child molester Muhammad. A person CELEBRATED AND REVERED by Islam and its followers. How they act on that celebration is an individual choice and the focus of judgement. However the religion itself holds the murder/child molester as its hero. Nothing you can do will spin that fact from the truth.
THe old head in the sand trick is getting reeeeallllly tiresome. Sheesh.
Yes I understand, for Islam, peace is desired, it is attained when all are converted or destroyed. Or is this where you will quote me verses where it clearly spells out that Muslims and and everyone else shall live together in peace as equals?CameronPoe wrote:
It also teaches peace and tolerance too. That's my fucking point. TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READING TRY READINGlowing wrote:
Sorry Cam, Islam preaches violence intolerance and hatred. All practiced accordingly by the murder/child molester Muhammad. A person CELEBRATED AND REVERED by Islam and its followers. How they act on that celebration is an individual choice and the focus of judgement. However the religion itself holds the murder/child molester as its hero. Nothing you can do will spin that fact from the truth.
THe old head in the sand trick is getting reeeeallllly tiresome. Sheesh.
So apparently lowing is an Islamic scholar... That's funny you mention that because it specifically mentions treating 'people of the book' with respect and allowing them to go about their business. It also contradicts itself elsewhere. Which happens to be my fucking point.lowing wrote:
Yes I understand, for Islam, peace is desired, it is attained when all are converted or destroyed. Or is this where you will quote me verses where it clearly spells out that Muslims and and everyone else shall live together in peace as equals?
/head in hands.
and ftr:
And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.
Quran 29:46
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Quran 2:62
And Islamic law dictates that dhimmis must be protected.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-06 17:31:23)
I'm wondering whether I should bother replying to Lowing's posts in future.
He has been programmed to view things with a reality filter it seems. It really is pointless I agree.ghettoperson wrote:
I'm wondering whether I should bother replying to Lowing's posts in future.
I mean, I know he's the crazy conservative of the forum, and it's fun to debate with him to a point. It's just other crazy conservatives will at least acknowledge certain points and it makes debating a little more constructive rather than going over the same point again and again.
Yes Cam, how do you interpret "And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit."CameronPoe wrote:
So apparently lowing is an Islamic scholar... That's funny you mention that because it specifically mentions treating 'people of the book' with respect and allowing them to go about their business. It also contradicts itself elsewhere. Which happens to be my fucking point.lowing wrote:
Yes I understand, for Islam, peace is desired, it is attained when all are converted or destroyed. Or is this where you will quote me verses where it clearly spells out that Muslims and and everyone else shall live together in peace as equals?
/head in hands.
and ftr:
And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.
Quran 29:46
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Quran 2:62
And Islamic law dictates that dhimmis must be protected.
Do not dispute what has been revealed to you, basically Islam.
Those who believe as dictated by Islam, as it does state non-believers will be punished.
dhimmis must be protected? From who and if they are equals in the eyes of Islam, ( which they are not) why the distinction?
Do what you normally do, just don't reply when faced with an argument you can not dispute.ghettoperson wrote:
I'm wondering whether I should bother replying to Lowing's posts in future.
Revealed to us: Koran. Revealed to you: Bible, Torah, Talmud.lowing wrote:
Yes Cam, how do you interpret "And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit."
Do not dispute what has been revealed to you, basically Islam.
Those who believe as dictated by Islam, as it does state non-believers will be punished.
dhimmis must be protected? From who and if they are equals in the eyes of Islam, ( which they are not) why the distinction?
Basic English reading comprehension. But I'm glad you're recognising the issue of interpretation here. Bravo. Really. Pat on the back.
Why am I a 'gentile'? Get over your bullshit.
Calling me names, is hardly constructive debating ghetto, a tactic reserved for your side of the issues I might add while debating me.ghettoperson wrote:
I mean, I know he's the crazy conservative of the forum, and it's fun to debate with him to a point. It's just other crazy conservatives will at least acknowledge certain points and it makes debating a little more constructive rather than going over the same point again and again.
Cam, It is understood that Islam dictates what is best, and to follow what is best is rewarded.CameronPoe wrote:
Revealed to us: Koran. Revealed to you: Bible, Torah, Talmud.lowing wrote:
Yes Cam, how do you interpret "And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit."
Do not dispute what has been revealed to you, basically Islam.
Those who believe as dictated by Islam, as it does state non-believers will be punished.
dhimmis must be protected? From who and if they are equals in the eyes of Islam, ( which they are not) why the distinction?
Basic English reading comprehension. But I'm glad you're recognising the issue of interpretation here. Bravo. Really. Pat on the back.
Why am I a 'gentile'? Get over your bullshit.
Yes I follow reading comprehension and it is understood to mean believers of what Islam dictates.
Don't answer a question with a question. dhimmis are beneath Islamic followers not equals.
I have no idea why you are a gentile.
You should become a radical Imam lowing. You're great at selectively skimming the Koran and drawing your own interpretations from such a self-contradictory book. Your a hopeless case. With the facts right in your face you robotically maintain your senseless drawlings and just spew out more garbage, failing to address said hard clear facts. Utterly pointless.lowing wrote:
Cam, It is understood that Islam dictates what is best, and to follow what is best is rewarded.
Yes I follow reading comprehension and it is understood to mean believers of what Islam dictates.
Don't answer a question with a question. dhimmis are beneath Islamic followers not equals.
I have no idea why you are a gentile.
I'm a gentile because Jewish law refers to me as such and sets out how I should be treated as such.
I mean crazy conservative in the nicest sense of the word.lowing wrote:
Calling me names, is hardly constructive debating ghetto, a tactic reserved for your side of the issues I might add while debating me.ghettoperson wrote:
I mean, I know he's the crazy conservative of the forum, and it's fun to debate with him to a point. It's just other crazy conservatives will at least acknowledge certain points and it makes debating a little more constructive rather than going over the same point again and again.
Cam, here is a wake up call, your opinion is not "facts in my face". your quotes are also non-conclusive, since as we both point out they can be twisted into anything. as it is Islam has twisted it into violence and intolerance. Take it up with them, not me.CameronPoe wrote:
You should become a radical Imam lowing. You're great at selectively skimming the Koran and drawing your own interpretations from such a self-contradictory book. Your a hopeless case. With the facts right in your face you robotically maintain your senseless drawlings and just spew out more garbage, failing to address said hard clear facts. Utterly pointless.lowing wrote:
Cam, It is understood that Islam dictates what is best, and to follow what is best is rewarded.
Yes I follow reading comprehension and it is understood to mean believers of what Islam dictates.
Don't answer a question with a question. dhimmis are beneath Islamic followers not equals.
I have no idea why you are a gentile.
I'm a gentile because Jewish law refers to me as such and sets out how I should be treated as such.
Thanks again for backing up my interpretation argument. You're damn fucking right quotes from an ancient book are non-conclusive!!!! Ergo I win the argument. There are many specific quotes on tolerance and peaceful relations with non-believers. There are also adversarial quotes. The individual must decide how to read it.lowing wrote:
Cam, here is a wake up call, your opinion is not "facts in my face". your quotes are also non-conclusive, since as we both point out they can be twisted into anything. as it is Islam has twisted it into violence and intolerance. Take it up with them, not me.
/win
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-06 18:38:56)
Actually, you do not win, since clearly, based on sharia law, Islam has been interpreted by the "experts", and its current results are in the form of a culture of intolerance and violence.CameronPoe wrote:
Thanks again for backing up my interpretation argument. You're damn fucking right quotes from an ancient book are non-conclusive!!!! Ergo I win the argument. There are many specific quotes on tolerance and peaceful relations with non-believers. There are also adversarial quotes. The individual must decide how to read it.lowing wrote:
Cam, here is a wake up call, your opinion is not "facts in my face". your quotes are also non-conclusive, since as we both point out they can be twisted into anything. as it is Islam has twisted it into violence and intolerance. Take it up with them, not me.
/win
/winlowing wrote:
Actually, you do not win, since clearly, based on sharia law, Islam has been interpreted by the "experts", and its current results are in the form of a culture of intolerance and violence.CameronPoe wrote:
Thanks again for backing up my interpretation argument. You're damn fucking right quotes from an ancient book are non-conclusive!!!! Ergo I win the argument. There are many specific quotes on tolerance and peaceful relations with non-believers. There are also adversarial quotes. The individual must decide how to read it.lowing wrote:
Cam, here is a wake up call, your opinion is not "facts in my face". your quotes are also non-conclusive, since as we both point out they can be twisted into anything. as it is Islam has twisted it into violence and intolerance. Take it up with them, not me.
/win
Every post you make continues to reinforce my point! And of course you focus on a minority to generalise the majority, as usual. /winwin
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-07 02:56:30)
Not all Islamic cultures are intolerant and violent. It's the largest religion in the word, and the overwhelming majority are very moderate. but when theres billions of people following one religion there are going to be varied interpretations, and not all of them are good.lowing wrote:
Actually, you do not win, since clearly, based on sharia law, Islam has been interpreted by the "experts", and its current results are in the form of a culture of intolerance and violence.CameronPoe wrote:
Thanks again for backing up my interpretation argument. You're damn fucking right quotes from an ancient book are non-conclusive!!!! Ergo I win the argument. There are many specific quotes on tolerance and peaceful relations with non-believers. There are also adversarial quotes. The individual must decide how to read it.lowing wrote:
Cam, here is a wake up call, your opinion is not "facts in my face". your quotes are also non-conclusive, since as we both point out they can be twisted into anything. as it is Islam has twisted it into violence and intolerance. Take it up with them, not me.
/win