Weapons Knowledge

2009-07-19 09:04:11

#1

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6644|Escea

A question I have for any military lads or those with firearms experience.

This is aimed specifically at STANAG magazines for the M-16/M4.

I know that a STANAG can hold 30 rounds, but I've heard that if only 29 rounds are loaded, it feeds better, something to do with the spring in the mag working better with only 29. Unfortunately Google wasn't able to give me the answer I was after. So anyone know about this?

2009-07-19 09:16:54

#2

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6574|what

It's an urban legend imo, but there a great thread on it here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.p … p;t=456657

2009-07-19 09:20:57

#3

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6644|Escea

Yeah I saw that one.

Although they were saying it was an urban legend etc, I recently read through one of my Andy McNab books again, and he says he downloads to 29 rounds to give the spring more, springiness I guess. Seems most of those with experience say its a myth though.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2009-07-19 09:21:45)

2009-07-19 09:25:03

#4

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6574|what

Well, 29 rounds would result in less wear when you think about it. But as long as you keep your weapon in a relatively good condition you won't have a problem.

I'm often reminded how hard the troops in Vietnam had it with their constant gun jams, due to the damp environment that got to the point they would take an enemies Ak47 when given the chance, with the full knowledge that since the sound is so recognisable it would be likely to draw friendly fire.

2009-07-19 09:27:50

#5

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6644|Escea

AussieReaper wrote:
Well, 29 rounds would result in less wear when you think about it. But as long as you keep your weapon in a relatively good condition you won't have a problem.

I'm often reminded how hard the troops in Vietnam had it with their constant gun jams, due to the damp environment that got to the point they would take an enemies Ak47 when given the chance, with the full knowledge that since the sound is so recognisable it would be likely to draw friendly fire.

That was on a BFV loading screen

Lack of cleaning I think was the reason for most of the jams with the M16A1's, coupled with the harsh environment. The older magazines were poor quality as well.

2009-07-19 09:33:16

#6

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6574|what

M.O.A.B wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Well, 29 rounds would result in less wear when you think about it. But as long as you keep your weapon in a relatively good condition you won't have a problem.

I'm often reminded how hard the troops in Vietnam had it with their constant gun jams, due to the damp environment that got to the point they would take an enemies Ak47 when given the chance, with the full knowledge that since the sound is so recognisable it would be likely to draw friendly fire.
That was on a BFV loading screen

Lack of cleaning I think was the reason for most of the jams with the M16A1's, coupled with the harsh environment. The older magazines were poor quality as well.

I've read a number of books on Vietnam, mostly from an Aussie perspective, since Australia was so heavily involved and it did change our culture as much as North Americas.

Aus troops often hated the US troops ease of discipline, a few accounts I remember told how your boys would walk along a dry road chewing bubblegum and singing, while ours would have to walk in the wet ditch alongside fearing mines/boobytraps and forced to maintain silence lol (but most of them got on well with each other).

2009-07-19 09:44:08

#7

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|7042|London, England

That was for the Bren gun in WW2 or something, where they definitely did load less rounds into the mag so that it wouldn't fuck up, infact it probably happens with loads of weapons. Maybe not so much in these modern days but back then yeah probably

Who cares anyway what's the odds of you finding yourself in a situation where you have to wonder whether to load 29 or 30 rounds into your M16

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-07-19 09:44:43)

2009-07-19 10:00:40

#8

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7013

With old/weak/questionable magazines, like what you may find in the crate next to your unit armorer's weapon issue window - yeah, you might want to download to 28 or 29 rounds.

Most of the issues with magazine induced jamming are to do with mangled feed lips, crappy followers, worn out springs, or user abuse - NOT how many rounds are loaded.

Personally, I use the straight 20 round magazines loaded to 20 rounds.
30 round magazines are .. bleh.. in general.

2009-07-19 10:37:26

#9

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6644|Escea

Mekstizzle wrote:
That was for the Bren gun in WW2 or something, where they definitely did load less rounds into the mag so that it wouldn't fuck up, infact it probably happens with loads of weapons. Maybe not so much in these modern days but back then yeah probably

Who cares anyway what's the odds of you finding yourself in a situation where you have to wonder whether to load 29 or 30 rounds into your M16

I'm writing a book.

Thanks for the replies anyway guys.

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2009-07-19 10:37:54)

2009-07-19 10:38:59

#10

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6950|Global Command

I think it applies more when you have a loaded magazine and it is being stored, say under your bed, for a long period of time.
It is better to load 10-15 rounds in a 30 round clip if it is going to be stored for a while as the spring will relax under tension for a extended period of time.
Same applies to a ten round mag; keep only 3-5 bullets in it. As far as just casual shooting, say like at illegals hanging at the Home Depot, go a head and rack a full mag as it will be emptied quickly.

2009-07-19 10:43:30

#11

S3v3N: lolwut?; +685|6940|Montucky

rdx-fx wrote:
With old/weak/questionable magazines, like what you may find in the crate next to your unit armorer's weapon issue window - yeah, you might want to download to 28 or 29 rounds.

Most of the issues with magazine induced jamming are to do with mangled feed lips, crappy followers, worn out springs, or user abuse - NOT how many rounds are loaded.

Personally, I use the straight 20 round magazines loaded to 20 rounds.
30 round magazines are .. bleh.. in general.

THIS.

2009-07-19 12:10:14

#12

lavadisk: I am a cat ¦ 3; +369|7251|Denver colorado

ATG wrote:
I think it applies more when you have a loaded magazine and it is being stored, say under your bed, for a long period of time.
It is better to load 10-15 rounds in a 30 round clip if it is going to be stored for a while as the spring will relax under tension for a extended period of time.
Same applies to a ten round mag; keep only 3-5 bullets in it. As far as just casual shooting, say like at illegals hanging at the Home Depot, go a head and rack a full mag as it will be emptied quickly.

rofl

2009-07-19 12:44:41

#13

Reciprocity: Member; +721|7002|the dank(super) side of Oregon

The practice of downloading M16 magazines originated in Vietnam. The problem wasn't specifically bad mags or bad ammo but a combination of bad circumstances. 5.56 ammunition was origally shipped in 20 round boxes packed into cartons. When it was time to load magazines, soldiers had a tendancy to break open a carton and then dump out the individual 20 rnd boxes, leaving a loose pile of ammunition. They'd then proceed to load up their 20 rnd mags with 21 rnds and their 30 rnd mags with 31 rnds. The early follower design enabled an extra round to be jammed into the magazine by an inattentive soldier. It became common instruction to download magazines to minimise this problem. Subsequent changes in the follower design and the packaging of 5.56 on 10 round strippers solved the problem.

A lot of guys still download mags out of old habit. and some people think it wears the spring less. Compression doesn't weaken a spring. cycling compression does.

2009-07-19 14:38:29

#14

west-phoenix-az: Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does; +632|6811

Reciprocity, that sounds very likely from my personal experience.

The only problem I've had with full magazines have been with cheap aftermarket magazines. The followers will tilt and/or springs do not have the correction tension. Quality magazines can be loaded full, function flawlessly, and stored full for years without issue. I have some magazines that have been stored fully loaded for many years and they still function flawlessly. This includes AK, AR, 45, 9, and 22's. I believe springs fail from compression cycles and not from being compressed or uncompressed for long periods.

Some magazine springs are stronger and its more difficult to get the last round in the magazine so some people load it one short. Many magazines can hold an extra round, but it can be difficult to get that extra round in and even more difficult to get the extra round out. It can also damage/bend the magazine feed lips resulting in reliability issues. I prefer magazines with witness holes.

Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2009-07-19 14:42:29)

https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg

2009-07-19 14:40:49

#15

Jebus: Looking for my Scooper; +218|6186|Belgium

lolguns

2009-07-19 14:45:58

#16

Ioan92: Member; +337|6144

Don't worry, guys. I've played Call of Duty - World at War, so I'm an expert with firearms and I've come here to clear up any misinformation being spread around here by people who actually own and frequently use firearms in real life. According to my analysis, this weapon was one of the most reliable and easy-to-operate weapons in all of World War II.

2009-07-19 15:05:31

#17

RAIMIUS: You with the face!; +244|7136|US

Many mags can be loaded to +1, but they will almost always cause a malfunction when overloaded.
I've overloaded PMags before. They have a bad tendency not to fully seat. Having a mag fall out after the first shot sucks! Gotta be careful not to do that!

I have NOT had any problems with new mags fully loaded.

2009-07-19 15:33:43

#18

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|7086|NT, like Mick Dundee

M.O.A.B wrote:
I'm writing a book.

Thanks for the replies anyway guys.

Good luck. I was told by one of my teachers I should consider writing a book or two on WW1.

Fuck that.

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-07-19 23:18:22

#19

KuSTaV: noice; +947|6933|Gold Coast

I thought this was going to be about what can you do with rifles etc...

And I was going to say I can clear a Steyr AUG....

But I dont really know much about the magazine doofalacky part.... however I do know there is a difference between a clip and a mag....

noice

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/awsmsanta.png

2009-07-19 23:48:48

#20

GR34: Member; +215|6966|ALBERTA> CANADA

I herd if you bang it on your head before inserting it into the gun it makes it feed better

2009-07-20 00:00:52

#21

The_Sniper_NM: Official EVGA Fanboy; +94|6535|SC | USA |

rdx-fx wrote:
Personally, I use the straight 20 round magazines loaded to 20 rounds.

Same here with my Bushmaster. Straight 20s own.

If I used a STANMAG my AR would rest on the mag if i were to set it down bi pod deployed. :\

2009-07-20 00:38:01

#22

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6950|Global Command

GR34 wrote:
I herd if you bang it on your head before inserting it into the gun it makes it feed better

That's for luck.

2009-07-20 01:21:13

#23

Reciprocity: Member; +721|7002|the dank(super) side of Oregon

GR34 wrote:
I herd if you bang it on your head before inserting it into the gun it makes it feed better

You do want to keep the ammunition seated at the rear of the magazine, but you only really have control of the first round. All the rest will get pushed around by recoil.

2009-07-20 02:24:25

#24

The_Guardsman: Tally Ho!!; +81|7166|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

ATG wrote:
GR34 wrote:
I herd if you bang it on your head before inserting it into the gun it makes it feed better
That's for luck.

Last time l heard that was the yanks doing it to clear dust out of the mag.
As for the original question. When l served with the British Army we had a load of old colt mags in our lot and the lads would only put 29 rounds in. You could fit 30 in but you use to have problems with the rounds being fed into the rifle. Now this might have been down to the fact that the rifle was prone to stoppages (before the upgrade) or that there was to much presure on an old spring!
Use to do the same with the old Hi Powered Browning pistol. That was an old bit of kit as well!

2009-07-20 02:36:54

#25

thraSK: Best ___ in Aus; +57|6404

Well i've read it's the case with quite a few guns, you're not actually meant to fill the mag to capacity. So if it can hold 30 rounds you dont neccesarily have to jam 30 rounds in there, and it sometimes works better with 28-9

BF2S Forums Weapons Knowledge

AussieReaper wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

ATG wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

GR34 wrote:

GR34 wrote:

ATG wrote:

GR34 wrote:

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