ATG
Banned
+5,233|6932|Global Command
Up to TWO MILLION PEOPLE marched on Washington today.

Let me summarize; " Hey you crooked fucks, nobody believes a goddamned word you say. You fail at enforcing existing laws. Why should we expect that this time you will get it right when you have bankrupted social security, medicare and medicade, not to mention letting fannie and freddie engage in business that racked the whole fucking world with instability. We know you lie. So illegal aliens won't be covered you say, IT WON'T FUCKING MATTER WHEN YOU PASS THE MOST SWEEPING AMNESTY BILL EVER. "

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/12/article-1213056-066693E9000005DC-643_634x343.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/us/po … stweb.html


more
and more...
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6951|San Diego, CA, USA
2 million, wow...this morning I only heard 750,000.  I wish I was there.
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6782|MN
I doubt it was that many.  Some people that were at the inaguration and other marchs on Washington guessed it at about 350K or more.  Still a great turnout in my opinion.  I wish I was closer and had the day off.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6940|Long Island, New York
Out of whatever number it truly was, I bet 5% are truly for smaller government and are fiscally conservative.

The other 95% probably went along with whatever GWB was doing for the sole fact that he bore an (R) next to his name on the ballot.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7077|Canberra, AUS
Sometimes I get the feeling that most people don't actually understand what government is/does and what 'big government' really means...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6782|MN

Poseidon wrote:

Out of whatever number it truly was, I bet 5% are truly for smaller government and are fiscally conservative.

The other 95% probably went along with whatever GWB was doing for the sole fact that he bore an (R) next to his name on the ballot.
While I think a lot of them were for GWB, myself included, I think things have changed for most of us.  I no longer believe in any party.  I believe the federal government has gone way to far with its power in a lot of areas and have only recently realized where the power is supposed to be.  I cannot speak for everyone there, but I am truly for smaller government and am fiscally conservative.

Nice of you to label the lot of them though.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6940|Long Island, New York

LividBovine wrote:

Nice of you to label the lot of them though.
When everyone who isn't 100% for the right's plan stops getting labeled a socialist, you can use that line.

I can believe you're fiscally conservative, but the lot of them...sorry, no.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6932|Global Command

Poseidon wrote:

Out of whatever number it truly was, I bet 5% are truly for smaller government and are fiscally conservative.

The other 95% probably went along with whatever GWB was doing for the sole fact that he bore an (R) next to his name on the ballot.
Seriously dude.
Did you drink stupid juice before you posted/

GWB was a LIBERAL.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6940|Long Island, New York

ATG wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Out of whatever number it truly was, I bet 5% are truly for smaller government and are fiscally conservative.

The other 95% probably went along with whatever GWB was doing for the sole fact that he bore an (R) next to his name on the ballot.
Seriously dude.
Did you drink stupid juice before you posted/

GWB was a LIBERAL.
I could ask you the same thing. Did you not see what I posted?

Yes he was a liberal. Fiscally, atleast. Which makes most of these people hypocrites because I bet a good lot of them supported him just because he's a Republican.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6932|Global Command
I'd like to think I represent the average conservative;

GWB can suck my &^%$
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6813|'Murka

Poseidon wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Nice of you to label the lot of them though.
When everyone who isn't 100% for the right's plan stops getting labeled a socialist, you can use that line.

I can believe you're fiscally conservative, but the lot of them...sorry, no.
When everyone who isn't 100% for the left's plan stops getting labeled an obstructionist/fascist/etc, you can use your line.

Poseidon wrote:

I bet a good lot of them supported him just because he's a Republican.
And how many of Obama's supporters supported him because he's a Democrat and/or black?

The problem with slinging shit is that you always get some on you in the process.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6940|Long Island, New York

FEOS wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

LividBovine wrote:

Nice of you to label the lot of them though.
When everyone who isn't 100% for the right's plan stops getting labeled a socialist, you can use that line.

I can believe you're fiscally conservative, but the lot of them...sorry, no.
When everyone who isn't 100% for the left's plan stops getting labeled an obstructionist/fascist/etc, you can use your line.

Poseidon wrote:

I bet a good lot of them supported him just because he's a Republican.
And how many of Obama's supporters supported him because he's a Democrat and/or black?

The problem with slinging shit is that you always get some on you in the process.
I'm sure plenty have. And that's exactly the problem. The blind followers.

It's so odd though, I could've sworn the OP was about conservatives, not liberals!

Last edited by Poseidon (2009-09-12 21:20:07)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7003|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

Sometimes I get the feeling that most people don't actually understand what government is/does and what 'big government' really means...
Funny, I feel the same way about the views some people have of smaller government.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6983|the dank(super) side of Oregon

ATG wrote:

I'd like to think I represent the average conservative;

GWB can suck my &^%$
yes, don't blame/hate the conservatives, they just voted for him.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7119
Americans will always protest no matter what. Especially when the economy is down. I don't think Obama has that much control over the economy (Except for vetoing bills)... Isn't congress the one in control of most shit? The entire US gov has failed the people, not the President.

Edit: And who seriously believes in the words a politician says? They say shit so they get support. They are all the same.

Last edited by Cybargs (2009-09-13 01:40:09)

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6782|MN
As a general rule, liberals like to get out and protest or at least be more vocal on issues.  Conservatives have to get really pissed off to vocalize their frustrations, much less to march on anything.

Obama has a lot of control on the economy.  He can say a couple words and the DOW would lose 100 plus points.  The economy is fear and confidence based.  If we have confidence in the future of the country and business, we invest in it.  If we don't, we move our money to something more stable.  Don't forget he has control over the Fed, if you don't believe that, you are ignorant.

Our president and his administration can propose anything they want to the congress.  They can right the bills if they want.  He/they cannot make anyone vote for them, but he can sure influence them to do so.  Basically in this case, we have a very effective motivator in Obama.  He has not failed yet, I am hoping his policies do though.  I wish we could go back 60 plus years and remove a lot of crap from our books.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6813|'Murka

Poseidon wrote:

It's so odd though, I could've sworn the OP was about conservatives, not liberals!
Actually, the OP is about thousands of people marching on Washington DC. Most of them are conservatives, but some self-avowed liberals who voted for Obama are in there, too.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7023|London, England
So is it actually going ahead then? I'd have thought it would have been shot down a long time ago now
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6813|'Murka

Mekstizzle wrote:

So is it actually going ahead then? I'd have thought it would have been shot down a long time ago now
The Dems have majorities in both Houses...they can keep it alive as long as they want.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6958
This isn't an endorsement of Obama's plan, because I don't know the entire ins and outs of it, but what is the Conservatives solution to the healthcare problem?

Also, with respect to bailouts, many economists believe that allowing Lehmann's to fail accelerated and exacerbated the plunge we experienced by acting as panic-inducing domino number one, increased the overall cost of the debacle and that subsequent bailouts basically averted the 1930s mark II. Just throwing that out there. If the free market was allowed to operated unhindered in this instance - allowing the necessary market correction to occur sharply and suddenly and absolutely and irretrievably destroying the international financial system - you would have ended up with a violent revolution through prolonged unemployment with the labour market ballooning so much that you would have had skilled tradespersons drawing minimum wage just to keep themselves alive (if lucky enough to find an employer that didn't resort to finding labour on the inevitable black market).

It's time for everyone to take their medicine. Some of us may not have contributed towards the mess in any way shape or form but as citizens of a nation we prosper and suffer together. I should be angry because my salary has been levied twice since last year to support an outrageous government budget deficit. The fact is I'm not because I realise that it will take a lot to pay for this mess and in the long term we will pull through. To get bogged down in short term pettiness and greediness will only draw out the process of getting the economy back to health. My calmness however will evaporate if measures to prevent recurrence of this worst side of capitalism are not put in place.

Also it appears the US are seeing the results of their entrenched binary political system. An unrepentant Republican party lurched more rightward than ever and reaped what they sowed in the unfettered free market financial crisis. This in turn spawned a yawning lurch to the left (in American terms) with a Democratic supermajority (?) in the Senate, a Democratic house and a Democratic president. You can pretty much guarantee that the next setup will be a Republican Senate, House and presidency with millions of disaffected liberals marching on Washington with similar but opposite extremo plans.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-09-13 08:56:10)

Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6951|San Diego, CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

This isn't an endorsement of Obama's plan, because I don't know the entire ins and outs of it, but what is the Conservatives solution to the healthcare problem?
1) Tort reform - putting caps on jury awarded settlements except for the most egregious cases (this would reduce all doctors' premiums for Malpractice insurance, like how they are doing in Texas, and reduce costs for everyone).  [Democrats are against this because they are in lobby with Trial Lawyers]

2) Health care insurance portability - right now insurance policies are stated based and what happens is you have mini-monopolies like the President mentioned (90% of people in Atlanta Georgia use the same insurance company).  If you could get an insurance that, like your auto insurance, that works anywhere then all of a sudden you have ALOT of companies competing for your insurance dollars which would reduce costs. [There is a question of State Rights here, 10 Amendment because each state has their own mandates forcing companies to be state based]

3) Move away from Employer Health care - using pre-tax dollars allow people to buy insurance themselves instead of going though their employer forcing them to be stuck in jobs.  This way you own your policy and when you move jobs you keep your insurance just like your auto insurance.

4) Tax credits for the poor to buy insurance - instead of socializing the entire system (loosing our freedoms), we could give tax credits to the poor to buy insurance.  This would allow them to use preventive care services instead of having their health diminish to the point then they need to go to the emergency room.  This solution would be much cheaper than the current Democrat plans to help the 11 million people who can't afford insurance.

5) Help doctors with their school loans - allow doctors longer term and lower interest rates on their school loans (some come out of school with $150,000 in loans).


The above is the Conservative solution without having to raise taxes or socialize the system.

====================

I have one other point personally that is controversial though:

Illegal immigration - after care is given deport them.

The problem with this is that many illegals won't then go to hospital to get care.  Organization like Doctors without Borders, would have health fairs to give free health care to them.  The Democrats, obviously, would not be for this solution.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7023|London, England
So how much would your taxes go up if Obama gets away with his plan then, and also say it all eventually happens and you no longer have to pay for insurance, how much money would you save (or lose?)

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-09-13 10:15:12)

mikkel
Member
+383|7004
And no one had to take a day off from work!
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6848|The Land of Scott Walker

Poseidon wrote:

Yes he was a liberal. Fiscally, atleast. Which makes most of these people hypocrites because I bet a good lot of them supported him just because he's a Republican.
Would have been nice to have a true conservative, but I had to take what I was given.  Vote for the more liberal Dem guy because I don't think the Rep is conservative enough?  That doesn't make any sense.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2009-09-13 10:38:36)

HollisHurlbut
Member
+51|6400

CameronPoe wrote:

Also, with respect to bailouts, many economists believe that allowing Lehmann's to fail accelerated and exacerbated the plunge we experienced by acting as panic-inducing domino number one
This point of view may be correct.  However, it's a feedback loop.  Businesses become accustomed to government handouts and when a company collapses because they were denied a bailout everyone else goes into "OMGWTF!" mode.  So what do we do?  Instead of riding it out and making it clear companies will rise and fall on their merit, we start the handout machine again.  Want to know how to stop the increasingly risky behavior investment firms now engage in?  STOP COVERING FOR THEM WHEN THEY FUCK UP.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard