Best universities for majoring in philosophy?

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Best universities for majoring in philosophy?

2010-02-07 19:47:22

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

nuk i dont doubt you're a pretty smart guy but i just lose a bit of respect for you on an intellectual level. i can utilize the same skill as you if i want to write verbosely and in a manner to impress, and i can tell you're going to become one of these chicago-economists or white-collar workers that can make a decent dollar by using all the right corporate buzzwords and tailoring all the right rhetoric spiel. i dont find that a particularly good use of intelligence and intellectualism, though. i suppose the difference is summed up in the perception of harvard/yale and oxford/cambridge. everyone wants a masters from harvard/yale in money-making subjects. lawyers and big-capitalism and industrialists. the truly venerated oxford/cambridge gradutes though are the dons with classical/art/humanitarian educations. we still value that a little more over here in our british/european culture. there doesnt seem to be anything particularly interesting happening now, though. i wonder if the developing south american nations or the culture ramifications of communist china will come to shed any interesting art/culture/thinking in the long-run. social change is normally precipitated by these thinking individuals, after all. aristotlean sophia and phronesis. nowadays we're only interested in (capital) phronesis. i think the former is extremely overlooked and vitally important.

galt: re- hemingway, etc. pretty poor knowledge of literary movements, tbh. perhaps unique in style but definitely not unique in school/thought. impossible to imitate but not pioneering in idea and expression. chuck and easton-ellis are just the new brat pack in shock-literature. that's not even new in itself. my opinion of important writers for real social/philosophical ideas in our contemporary lifetimes? very hard to say, but i'd go with individuals more like vonnegut, portnoy, amis, (post)-joyce, pinter, larkin, heaney. your comments about the views being regurgitated are, to an extent, true. but everything about modern life is institutionalized and ruled by some form of elite, or dictated by some monopolizing or hegemonous force. even you, as a major of a supposedly 'useful' degree, choose to do that because of a system that promotes it. the influences and governing forces within intellectualism are also prominent in directing the industrial/financial world. trends prevalent in everything.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-02-07 19:52:30)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 19:49:44

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6566|what

Uzique wrote:
nuk i dont doubt you're a pretty smart guy but i just lose a bit of respect for you on an intellectual level. i can utilize

I stopped reading here.

First, use capital letters.

Secondly, your English. A literary student. You should know how to spell utilise without using the bastardised American version of the word.

2010-02-07 19:52:10

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5999

WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT WALLS OF TEXT

2010-02-07 19:54:18

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5771|London, England

Uzique wrote:
galt in countries that still retain a modicum of class, 'high' classical degrees are still extremely marketable and desirable. they teach core skills and processes of intelligence and thinking that abstract or highly-vocational degrees do not. in america i dont think your arts courses are quite as well-taught or structured. over here the arts courses are designed to give you an overall understanding of the humanities, classical subjects and contemporary disciplines. you leave with a well-rounded view of many more things other than the analytical understanding of some dead renaissance poet. i think you're being purposefully ridiculous and naive, really. most politicians and big-businessmen over here graduated from an oxbridge-level institution with a degree in the arts/humanities/politics-philosophy-economics. purely theoretical disciplines.

you have to really ask yourself what you want from an 'education'; a way to make money or a way to open your eyes to new views and ideas. to say that you can develop that kinda of education as a hobby or individually is a bit silly i think; you're missing the value of an intelligentsia and thinking-people. society and culture needs that force. schools of philosophers and think-tanks. sure they may not contribute anything in a utilitarian or reductionist sense- but they influence everything afterwards. the stereotype of these people as rich, aristocratic people that can afford to pursue such disciplines is a little anachronistic. it isnt the 1800's. high-class education and access to information isnt only for the learned gentry and the young Lords on their Grand Tours. anyway, your stereotypes and generalizations really undermine and demean the impression you try to pretentiously give across on this board as some wizened and well-rounded intellectual. much like your views on islam and global warming. it just shows you to be a parrot-read textbook major thinking he knows something because he read it in a book the week before. you're smart in your discipline im sure but you don't really seem to have a good view of the 'big picture'. i hate to sound pretentious but there's more to life and more to defining your character than your degree and your pay-packet. i'd rather converse with someone that has read the classics and can understand key concepts of modern living philosophically than someone who has been trained to make money and be a success within the system. and who is a bigger success as a human being?

I think you purposely missed the point I was trying to make. There's nothing wrong with being well read or trying your hand with the pen. I just feel writing is a pursuit best left to a second career. There really isn't anything of importance that can be said by a person with such limited life experience as a freshly graduated 22 year old with a degree in English. Can you name more than a handful of published writers that became famous before their mid-thirties? I doubt it.

My point was that pursuing a degree in the Arts will not help you in the career that you must inevitably begin rather than starving once schooling is completed. I chose a degree in Engineering but it hardly means that it is what I want my entire life to revolve around. It is a means to an end in that it is well paying enough that I can have a second career with more modest earnings down the road and pursue whatever it is my true passions are at the time. I've always wanted to teach history or economics but I would hardly pursue a degree in teaching out of the gate. Why sacrifice the time of my life that contains my maximum earnings potential to a path that doesn't pay nearly as well? Delayed gratification makes it that much sweeter.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-07 19:55:23

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

AussieReaper wrote:
Uzique wrote:
nuk i dont doubt you're a pretty smart guy but i just lose a bit of respect for you on an intellectual level. i can utilize
I stopped reading here.

First, use capital letters.

Secondly, your English. A literary student. You should know how to spell utilise without using the bastardised American version of the word.

*you're. you're australian. you should know how to use the basic general terms of your mother-tongue.

it's 4am and im just typing things as i think of them. capitalize? bother to recognize the difference between english and american-english? what's the point? i dont need to conform to formal writing techniques to make my points digestable. in fact, if i typed all of the above out as if i was presenting it as an academic document, you'd feel even more alienated and would whine about that. such a weak argument, especially when you know i can be even more circumlocutory and indirect than nuk, much to your aggravation. there's no point in picking on me for literary style, really. i lose that argument both ways on bf2s because you cant please everyone. so i'll just type casually, thanks very much... some people like reading bertrand russell because of his academic style. other people like reading nietzsche's aphorisms so they can digest ideas in simpler statements. i dont see any critic attacking either of them for prose-style... why? because it's fucking stupid and doesn't matter.

thanks for giving such an intelligent contribution to this discourse, though. you really one-upped me on the intellectual scale. jeez.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-02-07 19:58:36)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 19:56:34

nukchebi0: Пушкин, наше всё; +387|6737|New Haven, CT

Uzique wrote:
nuk i dont doubt you're a pretty smart guy but i just lose a bit of respect for you on an intellectual level. i can utilize the same skill as you if i want to write verbosely and in a manner to impress, and i can tell you're going to become one of these chicago-economists or white-collar workers that can make a decent dollar by using all the right corporate buzzwords and tailoring all the right rhetoric spiel. i dont find that a particularly good use of intelligence and intellectualism, though. i suppose the difference is summed up in the perception of harvard/yale and oxford/cambridge. everyone wants a masters from harvard/yale in money-making subjects. lawyers and big-capitalism and industrialists. the truly venerated oxford/cambridge gradutes though are the dons with classical/art/humanitarian educations. we still value that a little more over here in our british/european culture. there doesnt seem to be anything particularly interesting happening now, though. i wonder if the developing south american nations or the culture ramifications of communist china will come to shed any interesting art/culture/thinking in the long-run. social change is normally precipitated by these thinking individuals, after all. aristotlean sophia and phronesis. nowadays we're only interested in (capital) phronesis. i think the former is extremely overlooked and vitally important.

It's really just how I write.

Also, to be honest, I doubt I'll exactly fulfill what you envision because I have a uncanny skill for angering people I dislike. I doubt I could maintain the veneer of sycophancy for long enough to get anywhere, especially because I know the vast majority of people I would be working with I would dislike in some form or manner. I 'm noticing it here; I doubt the corporate world will see much improvement.

especially when you know i can be even more circumlocutory and indirect than nuk

Yeah, I really can't compete against an English major years older than me.

AussieReaper wrote:
Uzique wrote:
nuk i dont doubt you're a pretty smart guy but i just lose a bit of respect for you on an intellectual level. i can utilize
I stopped reading here.

First, use capital letters.

Secondly, your English. A literary student. You should know how to spell utilise without using the bastardised American version of the word.

It doesn't seem like he is trying to write with perfect grammar or spelling, no?

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2010-02-07 20:00:42)

2010-02-07 19:58:52

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5771|London, England

Uzique wrote:
even you, as a major of a supposedly 'useful' degree, choose to do that because of a system that promotes it. the influences and governing forces within intellectualism are also prominent in directing the industrial/financial world. trends prevalent in everything.

Yes, it's called supply and demand. You can rail against capitalism all you want but do you honestly think people would allow you to sit on your ass all day pontificating in a socialist/communist system? It always amuses me that artists are the biggest supporters of Marx' ideas because they think that they will be valued in such a society and allowed to pursue their passions to their hearts content. They'll be in the fields harvesting beets with the rest of the unskilled laborers.

2010-02-07 20:05:59

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

i dont think tolstoy was forced to work in a field... in fact i believe he was purposefully left alone on a rather large estate. i really dont know what you're getting at, though. you can't break out of the thought-process that life somehow has to be about money and satisfying the capitalist 'demand'. some people are happy to live modestly off academic or menial earnings whilst pursuing other things. even your point about getting a degree to 'earn as much as possible in my early years' shows the paradigmatic way of thinking. some individuals just dont want that from life. 10-15 years making money to then take up a secondary pursuit- okay, fine. but some people don't want the 50" plasma tv and the large suburban house, ever. and those 10-15 years can be spent on other things. do you think there's a link between the fact that big-capitalism took over the occidental world around 1900, around the same time that our last great intellectual polymaths died out? i lament the passing of the era when great public individuals could be philosophers, writers, statesmen, lawyers and theologians all at once. people are too isolated and compartmentalised now. i mean fuck, the lack of human and personal ambition. in all respects. we've been institutionally subjugated by the system to have an illusion of freedom, choice and empowerment... when really our options are play-along or be-fucked.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 20:08:17

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5771|London, England

Uzique wrote:
i dont think tolstoy was forced to work in a field... in fact i believe he was purposefully left alone on a rather large estate. i really dont know what you're getting at, though. you can't break out of the thought-process that life somehow has to be about money and satisfying the capitalist 'demand'. some people are happy to live modestly off academic or menial earnings whilst pursuing other things. even your point about getting a degree to 'earn as much as possible in my early years' shows the paradigmatic way of thinking. some individuals just dont want that from life. 10-15 years making money to then take up a secondary pursuit- okay, fine. but some people don't want the 50" plasma tv and the large suburban house, ever. and those 10-15 years can be spent on other things. do you think there's a link between the fact that big-capitalism took over the occidental world around 1900, around the same time that our last great intellectual polymaths died out? i lament the passing of the era when great public individuals could be philosophers, writers, statesmen, lawyers and theologians all at once. people are too isolated and compartmentalised now. i mean fuck, the lack of human and personal ambition. in all respects. we've been institutionally subjugated by the system to have an illusion of freedom, choice and empowerment... when really our options are play-along or be-fucked.

Who's stopping you from living on the dole and sitting in a one bedroom apartment writing away to your hearts content? Isn't being a starving artist the height of 'cool'?

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-02-07 20:08:29)

2010-02-07 20:12:47

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

im not sure it's cool now in the modern world, no, but at a time it was a revolutionary action- yes. in reaction to the increasing marginalization of the intellectual in society. early symbolist/modernist writers in europe, particularly france, embodied that. baudelaire and other great minds that purposefully lived in poverty so they could examine the changing society and subvert it. even in 50's/60's america it had some civil and political point- in new york's arty east village and whatnot. intellectuals and a movement existing to make a point. i think after that any contrived impoverishment is a sort of self-ironizing middle-class obsession. not for me but hey, as you said yourself, in every serious discipline of intellectualism and thinking, there are a lot of pseudo-intellectuals and mindless recyclers. i dont think every maths graduate or scientist is going to become the next great theorist, though. not all of you engineers or economists are going to become huge contractors or CEO's, either. there's an average majority in every single path of life and discipline.

Last edited by Uzique (2010-02-07 20:13:07)

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 20:18:01

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5771|London, England

Uzique wrote:
im not sure it's cool now in the modern world, no, but at a time it was a revolutionary action- yes. in reaction to the increasing marginalization of the intellectual in society. early symbolist/modernist writers in europe, particularly france, embodied that. baudelaire and other great minds that purposefully lived in poverty so they could examine the changing society and subvert it. even in 50's/60's america it had some civil and political point- in new york's arty east village and whatnot. intellectuals and a movement existing to make a point. i think after that any contrived impoverishment is a sort of self-ironizing middle-class obsession. not for me but hey, as you said yourself, in every serious discipline of intellectualism and thinking, there are a lot of pseudo-intellectuals and mindless recyclers. i dont think every maths graduate or scientist is going to become the next great theorist, though. not all of you engineers or economists are going to become huge contractors or CEO's, either. there's an average majority in every single path of life and discipline.

The only thing that has trivialized what you call 'intellectuals' is the reality that millions more people every year are in school pursuing those degrees every year. Everyone believes that he is the next Picasso or the next Tolstoy (yourself included obviously or you wouldn't be arguing so vehemently). It's not that those great minds aren't there, it's that they are being drowned out by the likes of you, people who feel they have something important today but instead are just posers. Blame the internet, blame the fact that people no longer read or blame TV, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that out of the billions of people that have walked this Earth only a small handful of names stand out. If you want to blame the real source for the lack of respect the intelligentsia receives, blame yourself and your ilk.

2010-02-07 20:26:20

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

i dont think im the next tolstoy at all. what the fuck are you talking about. how am i anything like what tolstoy represents or achieved? and how am i a poser? im not trying to say that i am one of these upcoming intellectuals at all. i even admitted in my first post that i dont know whether i want to seriously commit to my life towards self-refinement and general education or an MBA/law career. im still trying to figure it out. in my posts all i am trying to do is represent a worldview and postulate on some emergent themes/patterns in 21st century culture that seem to be ignored by the narrowminded view-set of many people nowadays in capitalist countries. education is seen as a tool for accessing wealth and career paths now, instead of as a process of character-building and social-benefit. blame myself for the lack of intellectual celebration? fuck off. i havent tried to venerate myself as a thinker at all, my posts have been completely impersonal. if i want to find posers that waste their lives on non-constructive banality, all i have to do is look at YOUR own ilk in the d&st forums recycling ideas from news-sites and shitty polemical books. virtual balkanization. you're all self-fancied debaters and current affairs experts up there, arent you? you're no different from the pretentious arts-undergraduates that think they have all the solutions because they read marx. im very aware of them. im also very aware that im still trying to figure out these big questions for myself, and wouldnt have the hubris or the precocious idiocy to even try to form a conclusion.

i came into this thread because the arts, humanities and classical subjects were getting railed by a bunch of american vocational-undergrads. im just representing the other worldview for the sake of defending its corner and extolling the merits that it does still have, despite marginalization in our current culture/societal structure. i thought my first post was quite clear in showing that im still on the fence between idealism and reality.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 20:27:29

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5999

I want my ex girlfriend back and a nice house in a peaceful suburb where I can pump out some half Filipino kids.

2010-02-07 20:30:25

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6883

well does your american dream have the ambition of the great gatsby or something more like a good steinbeck?

not everyone's ambition has to involve a top-university economics degree and a 6-figure yearly pay-packet. some own people's version of liberty, freedom and the american dream is very modest. im glad that isolationism and protectionism has kept a very strong sense of pride in american agricultural/agrarian living. not everyone aspires to devoting their lives to the dollar. they're a sign that society isn't totally heading towards a point of absolute capitalism, i.e. that other groups and life-perspectives do exist, such as that of the intelligentsia.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-02-07 20:37:52

Gooners: Wiki Contributor; +2,700|7045

Macbeth wrote:
I want my ex girlfriend back and a nice house in a peaceful suburb where I can pump out some half Filipino kids.

but young macbeth,

a chair is still a chair, even when there is no one sitting there
but a chair is not a house, and a house is not a home when there's no one there to hold you tight
and no one there, you can kiss good night

2010-02-07 20:41:19

nukchebi0: Пушкин, наше всё; +387|6737|New Haven, CT

Uzique wrote:
well does your american dream have the ambition of the great gatsby or something more like a good steinbeck?

Didn't Gatsby just view wealth as tool to getting his love back? I didn't think he was especially guilty of supporting the capitalism you dislike so much.

2010-02-07 20:52:48

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|7120|67.222.138.85

Uzique academia does not breed intellectualism.

"The only purpose of education is to teach a student how to live his life-by developing his mind and equipping him to deal with reality. The training he needs is theoretical, i.e., conceptual. He has to be taught to think, to understand, to integrate, to prove. He has to be taught the essentials of the knowledge discovered in the past-and he has to be equipped to acquire further knowledge by his own effort."

That is intellectualism. Maybe that's what university should be. I don't think that's what it is now.

p.s. I can't even rip on Uzique for his lit degree after I see what he's up against.

2010-02-07 20:55:34

jsnipy: ...; +3,277|6935|...

thread is a lie

2010-02-07 22:59:00

ruisleipa: Member; +149|6635|teh FIN-land

Macbeth wrote:
holy mother of god too long didn't read

LMAO you obviously haven't been to uni loool.

2010-02-07 23:00:37

ruisleipa: Member; +149|6635|teh FIN-land

to the OP:

I studied Philosophy at Leeds University. They had a nice department and I had a great timne there, plus most of the course was really interesting.

It is true that it is not very good for getting jobs though, apart from jobs where you need a degree in general and it doesn't matter what it is.

There are definitely better subjects for studying if you want to get a high-paid job. If you want to learn how to think and study the foundations of our thought systems, I can recommend philosophy. If you're into thinking philosophy is a good choice.

Do you just want to study in order to get a boring job, join the rat race and live out your life along with all the rest of the sheep? Study economics.

Do you want to study in the hope of getting a new way of thinking about the world and studying man's thoughts and problems through the ages? Philosophy could be good.

I don't recommend Philosophy if you never think about anything anyway!

2010-02-07 23:01:48

ruisleipa: Member; +149|6635|teh FIN-land

JohnG@lt wrote:
If you want to blame the real source for the lack of respect the intelligentsia receives, blame yourself and your ilk.

you're such a fuckin expert about everything aren't you

2010-02-07 23:03:59

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5999

ruisleipa wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
holy mother of god too long didn't read
LMAO you obviously haven't been to uni loool.

We're on an internet forum not in a classroom you tool.

2010-02-07 23:07:08

nukchebi0: Пушкин, наше всё; +387|6737|New Haven, CT

ruisleipa wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
If you want to blame the real source for the lack of respect the intelligentsia receives, blame yourself and your ilk.
you're such a fuckin expert about everything aren't you

He's right about the poser part, not necessarily about his analysis of Uzique.

2010-02-07 23:15:05

ruisleipa: Member; +149|6635|teh FIN-land

Macbeth wrote:
ruisleipa wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
holy mother of god too long didn't read
LMAO you obviously haven't been to uni loool.
We're on an internet forum not in a classroom you tool.

lol so you can't digest text longer than ten lines or what? Make a fuckin effort.

2010-02-08 01:27:53

=NHB=Shadow: hi; +322|6779|California

All I got to say is damn, this is the internetz but that is a lot of wall of text

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