The Census

2010-02-22 08:09:07

#1

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

Every ten years this issue comes up and a certain section of the population makes a big hoopla about privacy violations etc. I've never understood it myself because I think it's redundant. The information they collect is mostly the same information that people put on their tax forms when they file them every year.

Here's one of the census haters:

In my opinion they should simply use the information filed on tax forms and be done with it. Since the primary function of Congress has evolved into the allocation of tax dollars, only those that pay taxes should have a Representative in Congress anyway.

Edit - Just so I'm clear, I'm advocating that their dependents be counted as well, not just the person filing their taxes. Housewives etc shouldn't be punished.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-02-22 08:13:10)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:28:24

#2

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|7073|Disaster Free Zone

Paranoid conspiracy nut...

Ohh no, the government might find out I have kids and build a school near me to make my life easier... those bastards!

2010-02-22 08:33:21

#3

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5651|foggy bottom

a lot of people dont make enough money to file for taxes bu they still need to be counted

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-22 08:34:22

#4

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
a lot of people dont make enough money to file for taxes bu they still need to be counted

You can make $0 and file your taxes. Hell, if you make $0 you make a profit (the government cuts you a check for being poor ).

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:35:53

#5

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5651|foggy bottom

I made less than 5g's of taxed income last year. I didnt have to file. Other years where I made dirt and filed, my refund was like 60 dollars.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-22 08:39:38

#6

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
I made less than 5g's of taxed income last year. I didnt have to file. Other years where I made dirt and filed, my refund was like 60 dollars.

It's still free money. Takes 15 minutes to file your taxes online so if you made $60 you were making $240/hr.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:42:39

#7

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5651|foggy bottom

minus the fee that H&R block plugged in. It just wasnt worth it. It was a headache trying to get financial aid without tax forms though. Im taking care of that this year.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-22 08:43:56

#8

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
minus the fee that H&R block plugged in. It just wasnt worth it. It was a headache trying to get financial aid without tax forms though. Im taking care of that this year.

turbo tax online man. Fuck H&R Block.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:45:07

#9

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5651|foggy bottom

best refund I ever had was when I did it on irs.gov for free

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-22 08:45:10

#10

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

Anyway, point is, if you aren't paying taxes you shouldn't receive dick in funding from the federal government and you sure as shit shouldn't have a voice in how tax money is allocated.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:46:10

#11

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5651|foggy bottom

barring v benefits ofcourse

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-22 08:47:02

#12

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
barring v benefits ofcourse

Well that's different and they send you a W-2 for them (kind of) anyway.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:47:39

#13

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

JohnG@lt wrote:
Anyway, point is, if you aren't paying taxes you shouldn't receive dick in funding from the federal government and you sure as shit shouldn't have a voice in how tax money is allocated.

What about people that don't pay income tax but pay other taxes...Perhaps we should make it so that the more tax you pay, the more your voice matters. Sort of a pay to play deal.

2010-02-22 08:48:03

#14

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|7073|Disaster Free Zone

JohnG@lt wrote:
Anyway, point is, if you aren't paying taxes you shouldn't receive dick in funding from the federal government and you sure as shit shouldn't have a voice in how tax money is allocated.

Students?

2010-02-22 08:49:13

#15

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Anyway, point is, if you aren't paying taxes you shouldn't receive dick in funding from the federal government and you sure as shit shouldn't have a voice in how tax money is allocated.
What about people that don't pay income tax but pay other taxes...Perhaps we should make it so that the more tax you pay, the more your voice matters. Sort of a pay to play deal.

If they aren't paying federal income tax why should they have a voice in how federal tax money is spent?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 08:57:42

#16

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

Because federal income tax isn't the only type of federal tax levied?

2010-02-22 08:59:43

#17

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because federal income tax isn't the only type of federal tax levied?

What are the others?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 09:07:22

#18

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

FICA, medicare, payroll taxes, estate tax, gift taxes, gas tax, etc.

2010-02-22 09:09:23

#19

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
FICA, medicare, payroll taxes, estate tax, gift taxes, gas tax, etc.

All of which (except gas) are covered by the federal income tax.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 09:10:18

#20

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

no

There are more, I just can't be bothered to list them all. And some of those aren't covered by the income tax. Then there are corporate/business taxes, which I believe count for far more than individual income tax. Perhaps we should start treating corporations and business entities as citizens too. Oh wait, we already have been doing something like that for the last 150 years.

2010-02-22 09:19:58

#21

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5750|London, England

I guess I wasn't clear in the point I was trying to make. This wasn't an attempt to marginalize and disenfranchise students, the vast majority of students are claimed by their parents as dependents anyway. No, the point is to disenfranchise those who get paid 'under the table' and avoid taxation in this way. Why should they be rewarded for avoiding taxes and have a voice in the distribution of federal tax money? These people are stealing from the rest of us who do in fact pay their 'fair share'. They don't pay for the roads they use or the schools they use so they damn well shouldn't get a voice.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-22 09:37:37

#22

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

JohnG@lt wrote:
I guess I wasn't clear in the point I was trying to make. This wasn't an attempt to marginalize and disenfranchise students, the vast majority of students are claimed by their parents as dependents anyway. No, the point is to disenfranchise those who get paid 'under the table' and avoid taxation in this way. Why should they be rewarded for avoiding taxes and have a voice in the distribution of federal tax money? These people are stealing from the rest of us who do in fact pay their 'fair share'. They don't pay for the roads they use or the schools they use so they damn well shouldn't get a voice.

See I think they should get a voice and I also think the IRS needs to more rigorously go after tax cheats. I already feel like I don't have a say in government, I might as well not pay taxes under your proposal to match how I feel.

I just don't think your proposal is a good idea for a myriad of reasons.

2010-02-22 09:49:40

#23

Pug: UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate; +652|6934|Texas - Bigger than France

The census gathers more information and has a different purpose than an income tax return.

For one, people are more likely to be dishonest or not file on their tax return, which was a reason why the census has been kept separate.

2010-02-22 10:31:43

#24

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6973|SE London

Everyone in the US files tax returns?

Crazy. I've only ever filed one tax return. PAYE FTW.

2010-02-22 10:37:51

#25

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,990|7024|949

Bertster7 wrote:
Everyone in the US files tax returns?

Crazy. I've only ever filed one tax return. PAYE FTW.

We have the same type of system more or less. But there are deductions and withholdings in addition to the deductions automatically taken out of most people's paychecks. Sometimes we get a chunk of our withholdings back, sometimes we have to pay a little extra, depending on certain parameters that might change throughout the year (children, loss of job, house purchases, marraige, etc).

BF2S Forums The Census

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

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