BF2S Forums Immigration creates jobs

JohnG@lt wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

So you're suggesting they should've kept the bubble going? Deflation was inevitable and healthy.

You're view on money is flawed. The money held by the 1% should be viewed as outside of the economy completely. It's as if the money does not exist at all. If you were to tax and redistribute the money and put it in the hands of the rest of the populace, all it would do is drive up prices, cause a short term bubble and then cause that bubble to deflate in another bust. Even if you were to artificially raise the wages of the people at the bottom via government payouts above the 'poverty line', they would still be in poverty because the line would rise to meet them via inflation. This is why every ideological socialist state resorts to price controls (which fail horrendously).

Nonsense.

If that were the case explain why quantative easing was being widely used?

Large injections of cash are exactly what economies in recession need.

Because they were trying to cushion the blow out of political expediency. Many would argue that they did far more harm than good because they propped up failed businesses and kept failed management from losing their shirts. Case in point? GM and AIG. Sure, they saved jobs, but at what long term cost?

'Priming the pump' is simply artificial short term growth that is unsustainable and delays the inevitable bottoming out that is required for a healthy recovery.

Comparing bailouts to injecting money into the economy?

<sigh>

There are multiple market equilibriums.

One of them involves wages -- outsourcing generally drives wages down in developed countries and up in developing countries.

Another is skill.  In general, developed countries must continually improve education of their workforce in order to minimize problems caused by outsourcing.

Unfortunately, not every country is equally good at improving education among the workforce, which is why some countries (like the U.S.) have been experiencing a lag in skilled labor as a proportion of the overall workforce.

We seem to depend heavier on importing skilled labor rather than on actually producing it here.

ATG wrote:

On a side note; AIG is the company used to insure the senates retirement investments.




Companies out source jobs. No replacement jobs materialize. Companies fail when formerly working people can't buy their product.

Replacement jobs definitely do materialize, they're just obviously not direct replacements. If a factory is outsourced to China, it will then employ a shipping company to move it's products to the US, it will provide work at a port, at a train, will employ truckers, will employ people to track the goods as they move around the country, there are lots of jobs created.

ATG you should seriously look into reading up on economics since your ignorance seems to be making you depressed.

ATG wrote:

Thanks for the advice but go fuck yourself. I talk to the self employed every day. The unemployed too and the poor state workers that complain constantly also. I spend a lot more time watching the markets and reading news from economists then I do jerking off on this forum, so read the first line again.

You spend your time talking to the ignorant, angry, and scared. Is it any wonder that you have no clue?

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

ATG wrote:

On a side note; AIG is the company used to insure the senates retirement investments.




Companies out source jobs. No replacement jobs materialize. Companies fail when formerly working people can't buy their product.

Replacement jobs definitely do materialize, they're just obviously not direct replacements. If a factory is outsourced to China, it will then employ a shipping company to move it's products to the US, it will provide work at a port, at a train, will employ truckers, will employ people to track the goods as they move around the country, there are lots of jobs created.

ATG you should seriously look into reading up on economics since your ignorance seems to be making you depressed.

I think the valid concern here is whether or not outsourcing creates better jobs for us.

In most cases, it doesn't.  About the only real advantage to having so much outsourcing going on is that it emphasizes comparative advantage.

If we properly adapted our education systems to direct our labor toward higher skilled jobs that are harder to outsource, then outsourcing itself would not be an issue.  Since we haven't done enough of this adaptation, we are developing some serious deficiencies in many skilled markets.  The only way we've been able to remedy that is to encourage more skilled workers to immigrate here to fill these jobs.

Meanwhile, the less skilled people that are already here have to go back to school while still looking for jobs, since they lost their previous jobs to people overseas.

It's a vicious cycle if we don't properly reform education.

Again, it doesn't matter how much 'planning' you want to put into the education system. The system in place is obviously sufficient for the vast majority of people to succeed. Those that are failing are doing so through every fault of their own.

Many places in this country were used to there being plentiful jobs requiring little to no education. Factory towns, farming communities etc. Now they have to adjust and there isn't fuckall that central planners can do to change it.

ATG is behaving like the Midwesterners who decided to buy homes in one horse towns entirely dependent on a single factory for survival. They now hoot and holler about 'saving American jobs' when what they should be doing is packing up their families and moving out of the dead towns and to a place where they can find work, just like their ancestors did when they originally settled in the town. Instead of fending for themselves, they're dumping their problems on a politician and expecting him to bring a shiny new factory to their town for them. Then they get pissed when he can't follow through or they cheer him when he suggests Protectionist/Mercantilist policies as the answer.

As I said in a previous thread, home ownership is not the correct answer for 90% of the American populace. It limits you to a small geographic area when looking for employment. Renting allows them to move around as they see fit.

Curious john, what do you do for a living again?

Mexicans, we need more mexicans.

ATG wrote:

Curious john, what do you do for a living again?

i think he's an electrical engineer? i remember him posting about wanting to design energy-efficient devices.

---

your problem is that you think everyone has a malignant devious agenda, when almost no one does.

CapnNismo wrote:

I have to say that I am agreeing with John on a lot of his points. Turquoise is also right in that the United States needs to fix the education system. The problem with that is that is something that can only happen on the State and Local level. It will never be able to happen on the Federal level outside of subsidizing (which would be an absolute waste of money with all the loopholes that will be written into it by the crooks working in the Senate and House), however.

Good point....

Maybe Spark is right.

Spark wrote:

your problem is that you think everyone has a malignant devious agenda, when almost no one does.

I keep forgetting that businesses are generally benevolent and rarely do anything malignant and that even if they do, the market solves everything.   Isn't that right, John?

Spark wrote:

your problem is that you think everyone has a malignant devious agenda, when almost no one does.

I keep forgetting that businesses are generally benevolent and rarely do anything malignant and that even if they do, the market solves everything.   Isn't that right, John?

okay well most people are trying to feed families and get all that, not destroy the country or any of that jazz.

Last edited by Spark (2010-02-27 17:11:01)

ATG wrote:

Spark wrote:

ATG wrote:

Curious john, what do you do for a living again?

i think he's an electrical engineer? i remember him posting about wanting to design energy-efficient devices.

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your problem is that you think everyone has a malignant devious agenda, when almost no one does.

Okay then, I'll settle for shooting them for incomptetence.

I don't care anymore how they ruined the worlds economy. I just want accountability.


Or would you rather wait until we are like Greece and the governbment verkers bankrupt us with their demands?

Or did I misunderstand the problem in Greece?

Everyone's involved. It was bad investment on the bankers part as well. If you want accountability, it's almost every American.

11 Bravo wrote:

slavery gets shit done

racist

ATG wrote:

I fucking HATE china.

China is essentially beating the West at its own game.

Again...   capitalism....  enjoy.