BF2S Forums Obama deserves credit for trying...

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Hmmm?...  Childcare funds are entirely different from school funds.

Oh, whoops, missed that. Private schools still can get state money though...
Also, I've had enough of this teacher's union bullshit - my mom works for a local school district (in NJ), and they were all over the place with budget cuts & etc....

So...  are you saying you dislike teacher's unions, or are you saying that the cuts represent a lack of power on the part of the unions?

The Edison school district is bringing back nearly half of the 337 jobs it eliminated under budget cuts this year.

The township’s teachers union last week agreed to salary cuts and changes in its medical benefits for the upcoming school year, giving Edison — Middlesex County’s largest school system — the money to reinstate 158 positions that were slated to disappear.


The deal comes in a year when massive state aid cuts and a tight economy caused cash-strapped districts across New Jersey to slash jobs. Of the state’s 588 districts, 140 have struck some sort of deal with teachers unions to bring back staff.


Budget woes rocked Edison. In addition to the job cuts, the school board also eliminated many programs — such as middle-school sports and full-day kindergarten — and raised taxes about $190 for the average homeowner. Critics cried that the cuts would severely damage the township’s lauded public education system.

But under the union’s agreement, the biggest group to benefit is the district’s teaching aides, who largely work with special-needs students. Edison will reinstate 123 paraprofessional aides and 10 teacher aides — all but four of the 137 aides who were on the chopping block. Had the deal not been reached, the district would have outsourced those jobs.

The deal calls for all of the union’s 1,585 teachers, aides and other employees to make sacrifices. All members will start paying 1.5 percent of their salaries towards their health plans.
Paraprofessional aides will take a 25-percent pay cut, as well. Library aides will take a 20-percent reduction.

Morpheus wrote:

The Edison school district is bringing back nearly half of the 337 jobs it eliminated under budget cuts this year.

The township’s teachers union last week agreed to salary cuts and changes in its medical benefits for the upcoming school year, giving Edison — Middlesex County’s largest school system — the money to reinstate 158 positions that were slated to disappear.


The deal comes in a year when massive state aid cuts and a tight economy caused cash-strapped districts across New Jersey to slash jobs. Of the state’s 588 districts, 140 have struck some sort of deal with teachers unions to bring back staff.


Budget woes rocked Edison. In addition to the job cuts, the school board also eliminated many programs — such as middle-school sports and full-day kindergarten — and raised taxes about $190 for the average homeowner. Critics cried that the cuts would severely damage the township’s lauded public education system.

But under the union’s agreement, the biggest group to benefit is the district’s teaching aides, who largely work with special-needs students. Edison will reinstate 123 paraprofessional aides and 10 teacher aides — all but four of the 137 aides who were on the chopping block. Had the deal not been reached, the district would have outsourced those jobs.

The deal calls for all of the union’s 1,585 teachers, aides and other employees to make sacrifices. All members will start paying 1.5 percent of their salaries towards their health plans.
Paraprofessional aides will take a 25-percent pay cut, as well. Library aides will take a 20-percent reduction.

http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/ … _cuts.html
The only reason why the Teacher's Aides are the "largest beneficiary" is because they actually have their fucking job back.
Also, while I'm here, outsourcing would've been a huge fiasco - some company that hires kids off the street for $9.50/hr? Turnover would be through the roof, and (having a parent who works in one of those classrooms and knows the students in the program) been detrimental to the program.
"Sacrifices" - awww, the teachers didn't get their yearly pay raise, bawwwww.

The whole reason this was a big deal in the first place was that the teachers union originally said "no" to the first round of budget cut proposals - then the district wasn't going to receive state money... then threats of pay freezes.....

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2007/ … awwplz.jpg

I'm not even going to touch the political shit-fiasco of a school board over there.

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

The Edison school district is bringing back nearly half of the 337 jobs it eliminated under budget cuts this year.

The township’s teachers union last week agreed to salary cuts and changes in its medical benefits for the upcoming school year, giving Edison — Middlesex County’s largest school system — the money to reinstate 158 positions that were slated to disappear.


The deal comes in a year when massive state aid cuts and a tight economy caused cash-strapped districts across New Jersey to slash jobs. Of the state’s 588 districts, 140 have struck some sort of deal with teachers unions to bring back staff.


Budget woes rocked Edison. In addition to the job cuts, the school board also eliminated many programs — such as middle-school sports and full-day kindergarten — and raised taxes about $190 for the average homeowner. Critics cried that the cuts would severely damage the township’s lauded public education system.

But under the union’s agreement, the biggest group to benefit is the district’s teaching aides, who largely work with special-needs students. Edison will reinstate 123 paraprofessional aides and 10 teacher aides — all but four of the 137 aides who were on the chopping block. Had the deal not been reached, the district would have outsourced those jobs.

The deal calls for all of the union’s 1,585 teachers, aides and other employees to make sacrifices. All members will start paying 1.5 percent of their salaries towards their health plans.
Paraprofessional aides will take a 25-percent pay cut, as well. Library aides will take a 20-percent reduction.

http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/ … _cuts.html
The only reason why the Teacher's Aides are the "largest beneficiary" is because they actually have their fucking job back.
Also, while I'm here, outsourcing would've been a huge fiasco - some company that hires kids off the street for $9.50/hr? Turnover would be through the roof, and (having a parent who works in one of those classrooms and knows the students in the program) been detrimental to the program.
"Sacrifices" - awww, the teachers didn't get their yearly pay raise, bawwwww.

The whole reason this was a big deal in the first place was that the teachers union originally said "no" to the first round of budget cut proposals - then the district wasn't going to receive state money... then threats of pay freezes.....

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2007/ … awwplz.jpg

I'm not even going to touch the political shit-fiasco of a school board over there.

Whoa whoa....  Wait a minute.  Teacher's aides are state employees in NJ?  No wonder that system has issues.

Most of NC has aides that are contractors.  It's much, much more efficient to do that with special education.   NJ should follow suit.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, yeah...  but the unions are part of why that is the case.

I'm not saying it's the only reason, but it's surely part of the problem.  Corruption is another piece of the puzzle -- and the various tax loopholes for the rich are another.

Lol ok. You have no clue what's been going on in New York and New Jersey for the past thirty years. It's got fuck all to do with corruption and everything to do with weak politicians who have conceded annual cost of living increases to teachers regardless of real actual cost of living increases. Teachers in these two states now make more money than private sector workers make while doing far less work. Every year they cry poverty, hold after school programs and sports hostage, and demand tax rate increases to pay for their lifestyle while using the kids they are supposed to be teaching as leverage against their parents wallet.

...and you don't consider that to be corruption?...

Morpheus wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/ … _cuts.html
The only reason why the Teacher's Aides are the "largest beneficiary" is because they actually have their fucking job back.
Also, while I'm here, outsourcing would've been a huge fiasco - some company that hires kids off the street for $9.50/hr? Turnover would be through the roof, and (having a parent who works in one of those classrooms and knows the students in the program) been detrimental to the program.
"Sacrifices" - awww, the teachers didn't get their yearly pay raise, bawwwww.

The whole reason this was a big deal in the first place was that the teachers union originally said "no" to the first round of budget cut proposals - then the district wasn't going to receive state money... then threats of pay freezes.....

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2007/ … awwplz.jpg

I'm not even going to touch the political shit-fiasco of a school board over there.

Whoa whoa....  Wait a minute.  Teacher's aides are state employees in NJ?  No wonder that system has issues.

Most of NC has aides that are contractors.  It's much, much more efficient to do that with special education.   NJ should follow suit.

It's a state-run program... even if it was a contracting agency, the state would pay for it. The only benefit of moving to a contract position would be the lack of need to pay for health-care outright...

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Whoa whoa....  Wait a minute.  Teacher's aides are state employees in NJ?  No wonder that system has issues.

Most of NC has aides that are contractors.  It's much, much more efficient to do that with special education.   NJ should follow suit.

It's a state-run program... even if it was a contracting agency, the state would pay for it. The only benefit of moving to a contract position would be the lack of need to pay for health-care outright...

Yes, but that makes all the difference.  Contracting out services is often a more cost-effective technique for states during tough times.

A lot of states have benefited from this approach.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

It's a state-run program... even if it was a contracting agency, the state would pay for it. The only benefit of moving to a contract position would be the lack of need to pay for health-care outright...

Yes, but that makes all the difference.  Contracting out services is often a more cost-effective technique for states during tough times.

A lot of states have benefited from this approach.

My problem is, as usual, with pay scales. Why does a gym teacher make the same pay as a physics teacher? There are thousands of applicants for every gym teacher opening here in NYC/Long Island which means that they could pay them peanuts and still attract a babysitter with dodgeball knowledge. I don't get it.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

It's a state-run program... even if it was a contracting agency, the state would pay for it. The only benefit of moving to a contract position would be the lack of need to pay for health-care outright...

Yes, but that makes all the difference.  Contracting out services is often a more cost-effective technique for states during tough times.

A lot of states have benefited from this approach.

My problem is, as usual, with pay scales. Why does a gym teacher make the same pay as a physics teacher? There are thousands of applicants for every gym teacher opening here in NYC/Long Island which means that they could pay them peanuts and still attract a babysitter with dodgeball knowledge. I don't get it.

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Yes, but that makes all the difference.  Contracting out services is often a more cost-effective technique for states during tough times.

A lot of states have benefited from this approach.

My problem is, as usual, with pay scales. Why does a gym teacher make the same pay as a physics teacher? There are thousands of applicants for every gym teacher opening here in NYC/Long Island which means that they could pay them peanuts and still attract a babysitter with dodgeball knowledge. I don't get it.

I think the schools in the US concentrate waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on sports... shit most kids use sports to get into colleges not grades. Sure sports is good and all but seriously come on.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

I think the schools in the US concentrate waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on sports... shit most kids use sports to get into colleges not grades. Sure sports is good and all but seriously come on.

Says someone who never went to a US public school...

Athletics happen to be an easier path to a scholarship than scholastics. While that is sad to a certain extent, there is a reason for it: colleges make money by selling tickets to sporting events so it's in their interest to attract talent with subsidized schooling. Excess money is then funneled into school coffers and allows for scholastic based scholarships.

The focus is by no means on athletics in public schools but it does act like a nice carrot on a stick. Hell, half the time I went to class because I knew that if I skipped I couldn't practice. No practice meant sitting on the bench for game day. Class always bored me because I never felt challenged but in athletics I was always challenged.

Would you say you're more academically talented or technically talented?

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-09-18 11:08:22)

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Would you say you're more academically talented or technically talented?

Hand me a test and I'll ace it. Hand me a set of tools and I'll build you something cool. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm generally good at whatever I try (except art).

You're the exception to the rule then.  Most people are more specialized in one or the other.

I'm very academic, but I sucked at sports and anything technical, which is why I was always good at school.  The majority of our system is geared toward academics, but it seems like it neglects technically minded people for the most part.