BF2S Forums Tuition Fees - Standardised? Privatised?

Its useful to have a well educated and intellectually developed workforce/population, the current system is not producing that, its producing half educated slackers who think they're above work. (The old system produced well educated slackers who knew they were above work)
It may or may not be coincidental that the country is going to the dogs at the same time.

Contracting the Army, closing the coalmines and expanding and dumbing down Universities were just a few of a number of colossal mistakes.

It is a shame its been done with economics in mind, especially as its backfired.

Before that people did study in order to benefit society, not just to enrich themselves financially or intellectually.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-11-26 06:02:05)

You can do a degree in David Becham studies in the uk...............im being serious.

Uzique wrote:

that fucking course is so often quoted in debate/discussion and never intelligently

say something else

If it exists...how can you defend it as a worthwhile expenditure of taxpayer funds under the current subsidized system there?

It is surely an extreme example of what Dilbert and JahManRed are getting at.

I can think of much worse places to spend government money than paying for some kids retarded degree path. Hopefully they take enough other classes that they may gain some semblance of usefulness to the job force. If not? C'est la vie. It's their life, their choice and hopefully they became liberal enough that breeding is now icky.

Should it be on the taxpayers dime? Obviously I don't think so. But it is, and it's not going away so it becomes a matter of 'fixing it'. I don't think forcing people into degree paths that they wouldn't choose on their own is the answer. However, perhaps a first year course dedicated to the economic realities of certain degree paths needs to be installed. I'm not picking on you Uzique, but people graduating with degrees in Eng Lit, sociology etc outnumber everything else by quite a wide margin. Those are your competitors and the reason wages are so depressed in that field of study. For most of them, the highest they can hope to attain is a government job that doesn't care what degree the person possesses as long as they possess one at all. I don't know how it is in the UK but over these people all seem to end up in government employment because they have no other opportunities. These economic realities need to be laid out before them in their first year, and it will do far more to burst the sense of entitlement that young college graduates tend to have.

Now of course, I believe the individual should be responsible for doing their own research, but most 18 year olds are dumb as a fence post and have the foresight of lemmings. Since it's on the taxpayers dime, require the course.

Uzique wrote:

i did and do a degree because i have an interest and a passion, and im pursuing a personal EDUCATION. i don't see a degree as a direct facilitator of a career. i don't see university as this training camp for working life. obviously a career and working life will be formed out of the constituent parts i have accrued afterwards... but it's not why i came here, it's not why im here, and it's not really the 'point' of it all. i chose my university because it was great for my course, more than i chose my university because i thought "oh yeah, that'll pocket me a nice job in a comfortable tax bracket". education for me is a path of personal refinement and growth more than about turning me into a marketable product for some shitty office job.

Then why waste money on it? Buy a library and sit in Starbucks for a few hours a day. The only courses that actually require a classroom are science courses due to lab requirements and restrictions on chemicals etc.

JohnG@lt wrote:

No thats backwards. Higher tuition would preclude people with no hope of paying off debt from attending. Hope of a higher paycheck means high paying degree paths should see no drop off in enrollment.

Exactly that would pretty much destroy studies in the arts department etc.

Take the system here in the Netherlands regarding medical studies. Every year there is a very limited amount of spots to fill and wether or not you'd be admitted to the study came down to a lottery. Nowadays they interview each candidate and select those they deem the most qualified.

Why not impose the same limits on other studies instead? You'd cut costs without hurting anything.

Uzique wrote:

look whether or not you esteem music to be 'worthy' of funding in your own shitty little universe is up to you. frankly, you're unqualified and your arrogance means fucking shit to me, or anyone else. pull your head out of your own ass. stop talking shit about things that you utterly don't understand. stop being such a fucking ignoramus. proscribing people and refusing their 'right' and opportunity to study such an option because SOMEONE ELSE perhaps a generation ago FUCKED UP on their  hedge funds is ludicrous. if you support such a notion... fuck you, you fucking dumbass.

A problem won't go away if you choose to ignore it, calling someone else a shortsighted cunt for offering a solution is very ironic in that regard. What are you going to do about the fact that someone else may have fucked up in the past? It's not like you can time travel ffs.

If funding is cut short people prioritise on what is needed according to society, if you can't see why then you shouldn't even bother debate it.

Last edited by dayarath (2010-11-26 12:07:35)

no i do not think the fact that a single degree-rewarding institution designing a crappy course indicates a 'wider problem'

what i think it 'indicates' is that one particularly shitty university offers one especially shitty course for those inclined

i'm not sure it's a 'sign' of anything wrong with the system at large; i'm not sure how you're carrying that train of thought

thanks for the whole REAL WORLD talk, though. i'll be sure to check that out, from the relative safety of my tower of course!

i stopped reading when you said 'poly'

imo all polytechnics should be stripped of full degree-granting ability... before any cuts are made to courses across the board, nationally

although it's curious dilbert that you say there's not enough courses tailored towards vocations anymore, and then to provide that list as being 'useless'. the issue seems to be not so much that these work-enabling courses don't exist, but that they're egregiously classed as 'degrees' on the same level of qualification as more academic/high-brow courses at older institutions. i just think making all the old ex-polytechnics into full universities was a bad idea-- some stupid 'social mobility' / 'class equality' new labour agenda, no doubt.

yeah there are also apprenticeships and work-based schemes

Uzique wrote:

no i do not think the fact that a single degree-rewarding institution designing a crappy course indicates a 'wider problem'

what i think it 'indicates' is that one particularly shitty university offers one especially shitty course for those inclined

i'm not sure it's a 'sign' of anything wrong with the system at large; i'm not sure how you're carrying that train of thought

thanks for the whole REAL WORLD talk, though. i'll be sure to check that out, from the relative safety of my tower of course!

One degree offered at one school. Are you seriously going to argue that out of all the degree-awarding programs in the UK, there aren't any others like that? Seriously?

If so, you need to pull your nose out of the latest bag of candy you bought and stick it back in a book. Preferably a book on statistics and probabilities.

Uzique wrote:

i stopped reading when you said 'poly'

imo all polytechnics should be stripped of full degree-granting ability... before any cuts are made to courses across the board, nationally

although it's curious dilbert that you say there's not enough courses tailored towards vocations anymore, and then to provide that list as being 'useless'. the issue seems to be not so much that these work-enabling courses don't exist, but that they're egregiously classed as 'degrees' on the same level of qualification as more academic/high-brow courses at older institutions. i just think making all the old ex-polytechnics into full universities was a bad idea-- some stupid 'social mobility' / 'class equality' new labour agenda, no doubt.

Its a University now, same as yours vocational courses are great if they are in something useful.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-11-26 23:25:17)

Aww thats cute macbeth, did they strip out everyone that didnt stop at an associates? Doubt it. Good luck finding a job with a 2 year degree.