Tuition Fees - Standardised? Privatised?

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Tuition Fees - Standardised? Privatised?

2010-12-10 06:28:52

#501

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6794|North Carolina

DrunkFace wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
Kmar wrote:
zeek, do you guys pay into your socialized pension all of your adult life like we do? If so how in the hell can turq say just to "scrap it". He might as well just say raise taxes. Same thing.
Phase it out basically. And raising taxes sometimes works too.
Which to do effectively would take more then a generation and probably 2. Australia started it in the mid 80s and are still paying lots of pensions.

You gotta start somewhere. Whether living here or somewhere else like Australia or the U.K., I'd be rather outraged at having to throw a large chunk of my paycheck out for the sake of old people that didn't invest properly.

As this most recent recession shows us, socialized pensions are a net loss for society in terms of expenses vs. tax revenue.

2010-12-10 06:31:35

#502

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6794|North Carolina

Kmar wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
Kmar wrote:
zeek, do you guys pay into your socialized pension all of your adult life like we do? If so how in the hell can turq say just to "scrap it". He might as well just say raise taxes. Same thing.
Phase it out basically. And raising taxes sometimes works too.
Fine. Then just say raise taxes. There is no "miracle money" to be found in scrapping pensions. You're just getting rid of something people have contributed to most of their life. Paying in to social retirement plans are not voluntary. Making someone pay you money work for you whilst getting nothing in return is borderline slavery. Taking someone's financial security when they are entering retirement is about as low as you can get. You're pitting social classes against each other.

It's going to happen eventually. There's no sense in postponing it. I'd rather screw over a lot of people today than have an even bigger crash of bankruptcy tomorrow.

Basically, the whole thing is a Ponzi scheme that must end at some point.

2010-12-10 06:36:06

#503

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6990|132 and Bush

You're going to un-employ a lot of people if you cut back social programs while raising taxes. .. we are getting off topic and I don't want to hijack the thread to have a conversation we've had 50 times .

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2010-12-10 06:38:22

#504

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6859

yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-12-10 06:43:20

#505

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6794|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:
yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old

Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?

2010-12-10 06:44:36

#506

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|7070|Disaster Free Zone

Turquoise wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old
Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?

creative accounting.

2010-12-10 07:26:28

#507

EVieira: Member; +105|6867|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Turquoise wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old
Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?

I'd start by decapitating the royal family and leasing the Buckingham palace (or opening a making a wax museum there). Then we could raise millions of pounds by auctioning the royal estates, the royal Rolls-Royce's and any other "royal" stuff . And of course, I'm sure the crown jewels would fetch a good price, if there is still any real jewels that weren't replaced by glass ones.

But seriously, how much do they spend to have some old lady sit on a chair and be called queen?

Last edited by EVieira (2010-12-10 07:27:47)

"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

2010-12-10 07:30:54

#508

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5747|London, England

Kmar wrote:
He either wants to believe it or he's screwing with you.

I was teaching uzi the art of the troll. He's bad at it

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-12-10 07:53:20

#509

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6859

JohnG@lt wrote:
Kmar wrote:
He either wants to believe it or he's screwing with you.
I was teaching uzi the art of the troll. He's bad at it

hahaha yeah of course you were trolling, galt.

HAHAHAHA.

anyone that reads over the last 3 pages can see what a stupid dolt you can be. funny, really.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-12-10 09:46:00

#510

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6350|Places 'n such

Turquoise wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old
Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?

Tuition fees arent to be increased until 2012. When, supposedly, we're going to be out of recession. It's just a tory thing.

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2010-12-10 10:13:32

#511

Doctor Strangelove: Real Battlefield Veterinarian.; +1,758|6857

presidentsheep wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
Uzique wrote:
yeah turq go read another polemic book, this population-scaremongering crap is pretty old
Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?
Tuition fees arent to be increased until 2012. When, supposedly, we're going to be out of recession. It's just a tory thing.

But if your out of a recession by then, wouldn't the government be making enough money to not need the tuition increases?

2010-12-10 10:35:45

#512

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6350|Places 'n such

Doctor Strangelove wrote:
presidentsheep wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?
Tuition fees arent to be increased until 2012. When, supposedly, we're going to be out of recession. It's just a tory thing.
But if your out of a recession by then, wouldn't the government be making enough money to not need the tuition increases?

bingo.

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2010-12-10 11:16:15

#513

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6794|North Carolina

Doctor Strangelove wrote:
presidentsheep wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

Well, to keep from derailing things as much, how would you make room in the budget for not raising tuition?
Tuition fees arent to be increased until 2012. When, supposedly, we're going to be out of recession. It's just a tory thing.
But if your out of a recession by then, wouldn't the government be making enough money to not need the tuition increases?

I would assume that depends on inflation.

2010-12-10 14:50:07

#514

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5747|London, England

Uzique wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Kmar wrote:
He either wants to believe it or he's screwing with you.
I was teaching uzi the art of the troll. He's bad at it
hahaha yeah of course you were trolling, galt.

HAHAHAHA.

anyone that reads over the last 3 pages can see what a stupid dolt you can be. funny, really.

The only thing I was serious about was the rise in tuition fees not being a terrible thing. 15k extra in loans is relatively nothing if you treat your education as an investment in your future. Anarchy and the rest? That was just to see your reaction

2010-12-10 16:50:17

#515

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6495|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique wrote:
it's because they're kept in small areas and are not allowed to leave for toilet, food, drink, or warmth

the police kettling has been atrocious. mothers weren't allowed to leave their peaceful protest to go and get their babies from nursery.

hence the crowd's frustration

The Police,especially the Met, really have become utterly shit.
They know full well they can do whatever they like with impunity.

Fuck Israel

2010-12-12 23:16:00

#516

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6495|eXtreme to the maX

This is pretty disturbing.

Police 'tried to bar injured student from hospital'

Police have been accused of trying to stop civilians injured during the student protests being treated at the same hospital as officers.
Protester Alfie Meadows, 20, needed brain surgery after allegedly being hit with a police baton.
His mother Susan Matthews said police objected to him being treated at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital.
She told BBC London his ambulance driver was angry about the stance. The police have refused to discuss details.

A spokesman for Chelsea and Westminster Hospital confirmed a decision had been taken to treat officers there and civilians in other hospitals.
But he said because so many protesters ended up being injured some were treated at the hospital.
He denied that any civilians were turned away.

Mr Meadows, a philosophy student, suffered bleeding on the brain.
When he arrived at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital there was a "stand-off" between police and medical staff in a corridor over where he was treated, Ms Matthews said.
The student was initially treated at Chelsea and Westminster, but was transferred to Charing Cross Hospital where there is a specialist brain injuries unit.

I'm well aware the Police are out of control and believe they are the law, this is even worse than I expected.

Its also disturbing when people make a distinction between Police and 'civilians' as if the Police are some paramilitary arm of the government - which they aren't.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-13 00:38:21)

Fuck Israel

2010-12-13 04:17:02

#517

presidentsheep: Back to the Fuhrer; +208|6350|Places 'n such

liquidat0r wrote:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6813 … 178957.jpg

Taken today at the protests.

Loved how this story developed...
Son of a millionaire, going to cambridge xD

I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.

2010-12-13 05:23:32

#518

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7038

presidentsheep wrote:
liquidat0r wrote:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6813 … 178957.jpg

Taken today at the protests.
Loved how this story developed...
Son of a millionaire, going to cambridge xD

Yeah, it's David Gilmours son, the guitarist of Pink Floyd.

2010-12-13 11:14:54

#519

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6859

presidentsheep wrote:
liquidat0r wrote:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6813 … 178957.jpg

Taken today at the protests.
Loved how this story developed...
Son of a millionaire, going to cambridge xD

check this, it's my friend at at the protests, the original conservative-hq ones

(he went to eton)

priceless

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-12-13 16:24:58

#520

menzo: ̏̏̏̏̏̏̏̏&#; +616|6835|Amsterdam‫

we had some protests here because the tuition fee will rice with 3000 if you have 2 year delay with your bachelor. so the first 3 years you pay 1700, after that ~5000

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee37/menzo2003/fredbf2.png

2010-12-15 03:11:55

#521

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6859

royal holloway professor weighs in with his opinion... very interesting take on the matter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/81 … oblem.html

To the cultural Left, university is an extension of secondary school – and is therefore seen as a "right", argues Timothy Stanley.

haha at this guy...

http://www.rhul.ac.uk/history/people/stanley_t.html

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-12-15 03:36:12

#522

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7038

Uzique wrote:
royal holloway professor weighs in with his opinion... very interesting take on the matter.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/81 … oblem.html

To the cultural Left, university is an extension of secondary school – and is therefore seen as a "right", argues Timothy Stanley.
haha at this guy...

http://www.rhul.ac.uk/history/people/stanley_t.html

Great article, it puts very well how I felt about a lot of it. I'm curious though Uzi, as someone who is coming from the opposite perspective, how do you feel about the views of the article?

2010-12-15 03:38:20

#523

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6859

i agree with it entirely.

the summary is very apt: this is more than just a financial matter, it's a cultural clash between economic realism/pragmatism and romantic idealism.

but, of course, i must be the young, romantic idealist! if the young students and upcoming bright-minds don't preserve idealisms, who will?

it's the job of the more moderate-conservative, jaded elder generations to keep the other half in check.

by the way the guy in real life is a pretty liberal-toff professor himself. just as privileged as the 'we are owed the right!' students he criticises.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-12-15 06:28:43

#524

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6794|North Carolina

Generally, economic pragmatism pays down debts. Idealism doesn't.

2010-12-15 06:56:20

#525

Shocking: sorry you feel that way; +333|6388|...

JohnG@lt wrote:
The only thing I was serious about was the rise in tuition fees not being a terrible thing. 15k extra in loans is relatively nothing if you treat your education as an investment in your future.

The point of the system that's in place, and in many other european countries aswell, was to give our society a large, highly educated and skilled workforce (atleast, that was the argument over here for installing the system). The support for students allows them to exit university with a masters degree at only 22-24 years old, leading to more people for longer periods of time in a higher paygrade, a large population of people in possession of a degree and because of that, as a society, you'd secure a fairly stable spot in the international community in regards to trade.

Increasing tuition fees with such a large margin will up the average age of people entering university and cause the total population of students to shrink probably leading to less people exiting with a degree, and being older as they do so.

Not a bad thing per se but it makes me wonder what they're actually planning to do with our society in the long term. I believe there should be more than enough alternative ways of decreasing the cost of the educational system, or perhaps not at all and cutting somewhere else, in order to keep working towards that original goal - after all it's a good idea.

Last edited by dayarath (2010-12-15 06:56:56)

inane little opines

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DrunkFace wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Kmar wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Uzique wrote:

liquidat0r wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

liquidat0r wrote:

presidentsheep wrote:

liquidat0r wrote:

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

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