Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6859
of course 'demand', in the general sense of the concept, drives everything- including course structure, funding, resourcing etc.

what i am discussing here though, very plainly, is the flaws of a demand-system based upon 'perfect competition' economic logic

if either of you had stopped with your conjecture for 5 minutes to read the fucking article you would see that the perfect competition model is what will lead to many educational and principle problems with the new system, because it removes the old base-level bloc grant altogether and places the full emphasis now on irrational decisions made by students and whimsical, temporal politically-engendered 'swings'.

seeing as i only revived this flogged-to-death thread because of the seemingly enlightening/refreshing points raised in the new article... i suppose it would do you debate-champion, d&st regulars a bit of good to go and fucking read the damn thing, really, wouldn't it?

Last edited by Uzique (2011-01-03 22:03:42)

libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7104

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

because most of the subjects will be determined by a transient, passing economic 'phase', i.e. secondary or tertiary industry. this shifts according to time and adds absolutely nothing of public or cultural value to a nation's 'educated': it merely promotes the individualist's selfish wants to the vulgar and gross materialist extreme. also it relies on a naive assumption that an 18 year old student will be rational and thoughtful enough to 'determine' what the best course suitable is in the first place... so the system of valuation that will develop will be misguided and quixotic at best.

just read the article first, you're asking questions that are directly answered in simple, plain prose there.
Your fears are entirely unfounded. Our university system is much more expensive than yours is and we still graduate an inordinate amount of english, psychology, sociology etc majors every year. Our government essentially begs people to go into math and science degrees but people still don't choose them even though the money on the other end is much better. 18-22 year old kids rarely have any real concept of money so the whole 'put x in to get y four years later' thing is alien to them. If you took a group of 100 kids and told them X degree earns $100k, Y degree earns $75k and Z degree earns $50k but that the classes required for X are boring, and those for Z are fun, you'd end up with the majority going for a degree in Z regardless of the economics.
Australia has a "supply and demand" of courses I think.

http://www.uac.edu.au/undergraduate/fees/costs.shtml

Costs (and grade cut offs) seem to be judged by the supply and demand of students.

http://www4.uac.edu.au/wap/undergraduat … niversity=
B Commerce University of New South Wales - Kensington F/P CSP 96
vs

B Engineering (Aerospace/Manufacturing and Management/Mechatronic/Mechanical/Naval Architecture) University of New South Wales - Kensington F CSP 91.3
The numbers are the ATAR cut off scores (96 is around 2100+ SAT and 91 is around 1900 SAT score). So it's easier to get into business school than it is for engineering... Arts and Humanities is 79 ATAR at the same university lol.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6793|North Carolina
Here's what I got out of the article.  The new system pushes forward an inconsistent form of free market principles onto your higher education institutions.

I think the general premise of this system isn't bad, but the inconsistencies are the problem.

Before putting a consumer-value system into place, the government should do a national audit of what's most needed in the workforce.  After spending a year or so on this, they could release a report showing what's most needed, and that itself would influence demand for certain fields somewhat.

Once it is established in the public's consciousness what the market needs most, then demand is informed enough among students that you start seeing a better array of choices made.

As for costs of programs, they should simply distribute funds where they are needed without affecting the actual cost to students.  I agree with the notion of keeping tuition the same for most students as long as only public institutions are involved, regardless of what program they pick.

In the case of education, demand should affect the distribution of resources but not the cost of consumption.  It's not a perfect competition model as the author mentions, but it shouldn't be anyway.  Tax funded institutions cannot function as a normal market because taxes are compulsory and not driven by demand.  However, this does not negate the worth in having demand drive the provision of courses themselves.

I disagree with the author's viewpoint on the nature of education in its worth to society, because unemployable knowledge or skills are essentially luxury items among the workforce.  We don't need that many artists, and so naturally, the resources devoted to less employable programs would dwindle and concentrate among the privileged.

It is in the taxpayer's best interests to have a system that efficiently and reliably produces economically valuable members of the workforce.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,820|6494|eXtreme to the maX
what i am discussing here though, very plainly, is the flaws of a demand-system based upon 'perfect competition' economic logic
Fine, have a publicly funded system based on central diktat and cut the arts totally. If people want to study arts let them hunt out a rich patron who will hire tutors for them - isn't that how it used to work?
Fuck Israel

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