BF2S Forums Julian Paul Assange arrested in the UK

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

You see, the more people you axe the more you infuriate them. Fear is replaced with anger and revenge. People will fight back.

not in this day and age. public opinion manipulatin technologies developed hugely since french revolution, especially since the dawn of so called "information age". axes are simply one small tool for application in certain situations - and assange case looks exactly like one. very few people would really be infuriated if he got assassinated, imo, especially if usa used their enourmous influence on media around the world to play it right. sex charges, however, are such a joke one can't help but wonder if something's not quite rught here.

Because of the modern information age, it (an axe) is less likely to have persuasion. Especially with the anonymity of torrents and other file sharing sites/technology. Every asshole and his uncle has been given a microphone, a blog, and a youtube channel. When the wikileaks site went down it was immediately put back up and mirrored on over 100 different sites. Over the past few days we have seen somewhat of an infowar. For every case of government media manipulation you present, I'll give you 10 government branded conspiracy theories without merit. We naturally distrust authority.


There are important obvious social distinctions between humans and most animals. I've never seen a pack of rats organize a government rebellion.. although I would love to see it. The french revolted at just the thought of government force against citizens. See "the great fear".

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

You see, the more people you axe the more you infuriate them. Fear is replaced with anger and revenge. People will fight back.

not in this day and age. public opinion manipulatin technologies developed hugely since french revolution, especially since the dawn of so called "information age". axes are simply one small tool for application in certain situations - and assange case looks exactly like one. very few people would really be infuriated if he got assassinated, imo, especially if usa used their enourmous influence on media around the world to play it right. sex charges, however, are such a joke one can't help but wonder if something's not quite rught here.

Because of the modern information age, it (an axe) is less likely to have persuasion. Especially with the anonymity of torrents and other file sharing sites/technology. Every asshole and his uncle has been given a microphone, a blog, and a youtube channel. When the wikileaks site went down it was immediately put back up and mirrored on over 100 different sites. Over the past few days we have seen somewhat of an infowar. For every case of government media manipulation you present, I'll give you 10 government branded conspiracy theories without merit. We naturally distrust authority.

this could still be a carefully designed gambit, though. and, before you say "our government's but a bunch of incompetent assholes they couldn't have pulled smthng like that off", look at the position your nation occupies in the world. this couldn't really be done without proper managenent, huh?

There are important obvious social distinctions between humans and most animals. I've never seen a pack of rats organize a government rebellion.. although I would love to see it. The french revolted at just the thought of government force against citizens. See "the great fear".

most humans participating in government rebellions have no idea what they are doing - they are simply being manipulated and following their "social instincts" so to say - much like rats - and thus they are just as easily spooked as they are infuriated, especially so if you eliminale head "rats".

So roughly how many people in the USA have the security clearance level required to access these diplomatic cables?

^^ as the Legislature blocks the closure on gitmo...

If he gets deported to Sweden, could Sweden deport him to the US? Is there legal ground in US law to prosecure him? If so, is there any chance he would have a fair trial?

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Given your opinions on how you think governments should run/behave, it's only natural for you to think that this is a carefully orchestrated plot. You've come to depend on an absolute sense of order, it seems.

depend? - no. wish for it? - certainly. humans are not ready to be left to themselves - we are too violent.

Says the man wielding an ice axe..lol

well... yeah. i'm human, just lke you.

Kmar wrote:

I personally believe that there are occasions in history when a few people have caused major failures in protecting government secrets. "A small leak can sink a great ship".

not in this day and age.

Especially in this day and age, when information is so freely distributed.

information alone doen not sink ships.

Kmar wrote:

Most humans in a rebellion are fully aware of the consequences.

bullshit. you'll have to excuse me my lack of faith in humanity, but i've seen people do a helluwa lot of fucked up shit in my life. most humans - overwhelming majority of the humans - are apes with overgrown brains, which they only use occasionally to get advantage in their endless struggle to satisfy primitive desires dictated by their basic instincts.

Primitive desires like freedom.

there's no such thing.

Kmar wrote:

Your support of a policy of fear has no effect on a person who would die for the chance at martyrdom.

then let them die for it.

Kmar wrote:

You're playing whac-a-mole. And there is no way you will ever be able to take out all of the "head rats". No way no how.

but there no need to - if you whac enough moles those who left stop popping out for a while, and when they start again - you whac them again.

They whac you. In numbers.

me? - certainly. kgb? - hmmm...

Last edited by Shahter (2010-12-09 06:22:02)

Shahter wrote:

... hence an ice axe in assange's head as a reminder of the consequences of wanting to be a "whistle blower" with no regard for anything, including human lives.

Have you ever heard the expression 'Don't shoot the messenger'? Assange is simply the bearer of bad news, he didn't originate anything. The leaks wouldn't exist without Daniel Manning. He's the one that deserves your ire.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

... hence an ice axe in assange's head as a reminder of the consequences of wanting to be a "whistle blower" with no regard for anything, including human lives.

Have you ever heard the expression 'Don't shoot the messenger'? Assange is simply the bearer of bad news, he didn't originate anything. The leaks wouldn't exist without Daniel Manning. He's the one that deserves your ire.

assange seems intelligent enough to know what kinda data he's got his hands on, and he decided to do what?.. - exactly.

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

... hence an ice axe in assange's head as a reminder of the consequences of wanting to be a "whistle blower" with no regard for anything, including human lives.

Have you ever heard the expression 'Don't shoot the messenger'? Assange is simply the bearer of bad news, he didn't originate anything. The leaks wouldn't exist without Daniel Manning. He's the one that deserves your ire.

assange seems intelligent enough to know what kinda data he's got his hands on, and he decided to do what?.. - exactly.

in November Mr Assange contacted US Ambassador in London Louis Susman asking for help redacting information that could put individuals at risk. When the US government refused, Mr Assange wrote he therefore concluded the risk of harm was "fanciful" while stating he had no interest in hurting US national security.

apparently.

DrunkFace wrote:

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Have you ever heard the expression 'Don't shoot the messenger'? Assange is simply the bearer of bad news, he didn't originate anything. The leaks wouldn't exist without Daniel Manning. He's the one that deserves your ire.

assange seems intelligent enough to know what kinda data he's got his hands on, and he decided to do what?.. - exactly.

in November Mr Assange contacted US Ambassador in London Louis Susman asking for help redacting information that could put individuals at risk. When the US government refused, Mr Assange wrote he therefore concluded the risk of harm was "fanciful" while stating he had no interest in hurting US national security.

apparently.

... and?

let me rephrase that shit, putting it how it should have been, k? here we go:
"mr. assange decided to troll US government knowing in advance what their answer would be, but still asking them to help him. when US government refused, he "concluded" that there was no threat."

emmm... lol?

p.s. they should have agreed, btw, got the documents, verified the threat, and then blown mr. assanges head off. or not.

Kmar wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

Primitive desires like freedom.

there's no such thing.

The progression of civilization from slavery would dictate otherwise

we "progressed" away from slavery? really? last time i checked there were still a lot of de-facto slaves everywhere being worked like beasts of burden to keep so called "global economy" going.

Last edited by Shahter (2010-12-09 06:48:20)

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Kmar wrote:

The progression of civilization from slavery would dictate otherwise

we "progressed" away from slavery? really? last time i checked there are still a lot of de-facto slaves everywhere being worked like beast of burden to keep so called "global economy" going.

Who's a slave? I certainly am not. Put down the Das Kapital.

the only freedom that could actually be achieved, man, is right there - inside your head. only thing you have to do is to clean it up of bullshit you are being fed in the land of the free and the brave and cool stuff.