Flyboy63
Member
+8|6963|South Australia
Well I played with the new patch last night & decided to grab the jet to see what all the fuss is about with the AA.

Now let me say firstly that I have 170 hours flying experience in the jet with 10,000+ kills. I have the veteran aviator badge & need 30 more hrs flying time to get my air combat medal. So im hardly a noob.

Anyway I jump in a jet last night & within 30 secs Im blown out of the air. I take one hit (from where I dont know) then a few secs later on red health its 'good night Dick'. Hmm. So I take the jet again a few secs later & this time im in the air about 1 min then same thing happens. Only this time its a J10 that takes me down that had like lock on me for about 3 secs.

So I respawn on the carrier & stand there for a few minutes contemplating how fucked up this new patch is. My first thought was EA have ruined it. Jets just arent the same. Assholes.

But then I notice something odd. The jet has respawned & no-ones in it or running for it. Hmm. Cool. So I jump in it again. This time I give what just happened a bit of thought. Ok so I was knocked out the air after being locked on albeit for a few seconds. And it appeared the problem was with the AA. Before the patch AA was simply an annoyance & an easy target. Now it was war!! I decide there & then 'you f*ckers are going to pay'.

So this time around I get smarter. Flying in from a high altitude I take a glance at the map & determine where the enemy will be. I ask myself what SAM sites would they currently be occupying considering a lock on to a jet is likely going to result in 2+ global points. And swooping in I hit the afterburners & dive holding back on the gattling guns until I have my 1st victim truly in my sight. Then bang, I hit him out of nowhere. By the time he feels the wrath of my guns spraying all around him its too late to turn around & try a lock on. Hes dead already. Now for my next victim. Let me see. A check of the map. And around I turn, again coming in at a great height. This time though he gets a lock on, shit..off with the flares as I take a hit..the view gets a tad blury for a second as the jet shakes. I spray madly at him with the guns but not registering as a kill immediately I revert to something even more deadly. Yup, its bomb time you grunt. And bang, in one swoop I get to scratch another kill on the side of my jet. That takes care of 2 SAMS. I feel a further degree of satisfaction as I look back down & see a friendly chopper fly past the SAM I just destroyed..unharmed & free to fly on to his destination.

A short time later Im in the thick of it again, this time however in a slightly different way. I notice im flying higher than I used to but so are the enemy jets & even the choppers. Its a whole new world up here lol. The SAMS are back & missiles are flying around everywhere but it was cool. Chances are if their firing at me they have just as much chance of hitting someone else up here. And hey that J10 that just flew past in front of me is toast if he hasnt seen me. Hes banking as I pull up behind him so I let fly with 2 missiles to test this new patch. Normally they would taper off but not this time. One misses just but the other hits with a plume of flame bursting from it for a second. I bank off to head back to the carrier to rearm & repair & as I do I see a 'you killed xxxx' in the lower corner of my screen. More satisfaction. Later Im killed & respawn & its kind of eerie. Theres no jets attacking our carrier anymore & hey theres both the jet AND the Cobra just sitting there. Now im beginning to really like this game.

Im playing only my 2nd round in the jet mainly since the new patch & the round finishes. Ive come second top in my team. Pipped at the post.

So in summary. I like the patch. The jets no longer dominate. Gone are the days of flying around the WHOLE round in the jet, finishing top with 40+ kills & not dying once. But I couldnt care less. I found last night flying the jet is no longer a yawn. It takes skill to get up there & stay alive now & I love the challenge. I love the game of cat & mouse with the AA. Though sometimes no amount of skill in the world will save you if you have 2 AA & one jet locked onto you thats just the way it is. Same as if your team only has one flag & your getting killed as soon as you spawn. Its just part of the game.

But the patch has brought the AA into it. After 50,000 global points & 6 mths of playing with 750 hrs playing time, Ive only spent 11 hrs in AA. Thats likely to change.

Ive yet to see how the new AA affects the choppers. I expect this will be the down side. I cant possibly see how a chopper can avoid AA with only a few flares to throw now & then, & without it having speed on its side, as does the jet. And if they have made them weaker then I dont expect I'll be flying choppers too much.

But as far as flying a jet goes & the new AA. Its made it more of a team game. The AA IS now a factor & it needs to be dealt with. If you have a good team the guys on the ground will help to take them out so jets can bomb. Jets will take them out so choppers can fly. And on that note I found myself doing that last night. Rather than just spamming the enemy heli pad I found myself looking out for my teams choppers. Seeing one head toward a flag I would fly ahead & take out the AA where I could. Rather than being a lone ranger in a jet Im more a team player now. Theres more purpose in the jet.  Flags are capped just as they would be in real life. Jets come in & take out the AA, choppers can then fly in & take out the armor & hurt the infantry. Infantry can then move in & clean up & take the flag. Its the way it should be.

And though it may change in future it doesnt appear as though players congregate as much on jet/chopper spawns like they used to. The jets stay away from the carrier as its almost certain death if both AA are manned. This is a good thing. And on that I noticed last night as I took off in the jet & glanced at the map something odd. From the rear of the carrier there were no less than SIX boats heading off to Wake Island. That must have been a sight if you were in the last boat. And there were 2 more heading off from the bow.

With the new AA give the choppers MORE armour & flares, but apart from that the patch seems to be a plus. My 2 cents.

PS Mods please move this to the correct forum (sorry).

Last edited by Flyboy63 (2006-02-15 20:10:22)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7022

Thank you flyboy, for not whining and bitching as a pilot but rather realizing the patch is only gonna make you step your game up. I am not a pilot by any means, spend very little time on it, but I was able to get some good points on Wake today.

Same deal, fly between 300-400 ft, know where all the AA sites are, dive in, bomb, and get the hell outta there. Taking out other planes is a blast, takes real skill to avoid getting locked on, but at least now I can shoot jets out of the sky.

There were some very random AA kills (like shooting at a BH, and about 30 seconds later having the missles hit a jet... woot), a few TK AA kills, but I can live with these as long as it keeps the former plane rapers from being gay.
INCSOC
Member since 1984
+113|6938|Denver, CO
agreed
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6991|Cambridge, England
great post ive just started being a serious chopper pilot, and i agree with you on most spawns, the nice empty carrier is a great change to the usual constant teamkilling. However if you play with a clan or in a tournament it is usually a priority to man the AA so every AA on the map is giving you a lock on tone, try surviving on dragon valley with all three AAs manned at the Farm and the mobile AA hiding in the trees behind. try flying past there in a chopper lmao.

the mobile aa is now an awsome weapon they now have the power the jets used to, see something come over, lock on, watch it drop flares and fire!!! two garunteed kills, they just dont miss.

overall i think the patch is great for the game, but im going to have to adapt my playign style, shouldnt take too long  i hope

happy hunting
   
cheeky out
petethecheese
Member
+9|7022|England
Nice report.  I agree - had a blast myself earlier tonight, but I'm from  a different perspective.  I can't fly for shit.  Tried, it, realised how crap I am, (jets or helis, although I can manage a BH, so long as it's a taxi only) and stick to the Leather Personnel Carriers.  I am, however quite tasty with the AA, particluarly USS Essex's guns/ missiles.  And this was pre-patch!  Now the AA is a REAL threat.  Yes, it can be countered; fairly easily by jets with their speed and helis need to use flares at the right time because the biggest thing I've noticed is THEY'VE REDUCED THE RANGE OF THE AA!!

Has anyone else noticed this?  Yes they may have improved lock (I can fire now, reasonably happy I won't blow the fully laden BH with my teammates in it to hell, or watch my missiles right angle to home in on my own team's heli hovering for repairs!!!!) and the damage is as a SAM should be - ouch!, but the range is a lot shorter.

A heli, timing his flares just right can escape, given the reload time for the Stinger/GLA and the shorter range.  And because the lock has been imporved, you can't just fire in the general direction and hope they pick up the scent; if it's not locked when you fire, you've missed it.

I like this aspect of the patch - as the man says, makes  it a challenge and sorts the men from the boys.....

Last edited by petethecheese (2006-02-15 16:57:41)

WormGuts
Member
+17|7053|Dayton, Ohio
I am pleased to hear a pilot who didn't just go straight to the tongue when his world was changed.  It's good to hear that a good pilot can find ways to adjust his game and still be effective ( hopefully less so ).  I have virtually no time in a jet, likely never will. 

I did however have loads of time in the game as an engineer.  The patch has also turned my world upside down.    I used to detonate my own AT mines after laying them next to enemy vehicles capping flags.  I got alot of kills in this manner.  Well those days are gone and now i look forward to making adjustments to my own game. 

I'll keep my feet on the ground and my eyes to the skies...
MooseRyder
Member
+37|6914|Montréal, Canada
yeah i noticed about the AA range got reduce by far!

before u were abble to lock on a jet or chopper without even seeing it,

Now before u can lock on it, u need to wait that the chopper get nearly.
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7088
Yeah it's gonna make you take the correct bombing routes and also make you worry where the enemy planes are at all times. Better start memorizing the AA emplacements. Someone gets behind you , you deserve to die!
KillerYaNk
Hard Case
+11|6940|S.E. United States

Flyboy63 wrote:

Well I played with the new patch last night & decided to grab the jet to see what all the fuss is about with the AA.

Now let me say firstly that I have 170 hours flying experience in the jet with 10,000+ kills. I have the veteran aviator badge & need 30 more hrs flying time to get my air combat medal. So im hardly a noob.

Anyway I jump in a jet last night & within 30 secs Im blown out of the air. I take one hit (from where I dont know) then a few secs later on red health its 'good night Dick'. Hmm. So I take the jet again a few secs later & this time im in the air about 1 min then same thing happens. Only this time its a J10 that takes me down that had like lock on me for about 3 secs.

So I respawn on the carrier & stand there for a few minutes contemplating how fucked up this new patch is. My first thought was EA have ruined it. Jets just arent the same. Assholes.

But then I notice something odd. The jet has respawned & no-ones in it or running for it. Hmm. Cool. So I jump in it again. This time I give what just happened a bit of thought. Ok so I was knocked out the air after being locked on albeit for a few seconds. And it appeared the problem was with the AA. Before the patch AA was simply an annoyance & an easy target. Now it was war!! I decide there & then 'you f*ckers are going to pay'.

So this time around I get smarter. Flying in from a high altitude I take a glance at the map & determine where the enemy will be. I ask myself what SAM sites would they currently be occupying considering a lock on to a jet is likely going to result in 2+ global points. And swooping in I hit the afterburners & dive holding back on the gattling guns until I have my 1st victim truly in my sight. Then bang, I hit him out of nowhere. By the time he feels the wrath of my guns spraying all around him its too late to turn around & try a lock on. Hes dead already. Now for my next victim. Let me see. A check of the map. And around I turn, again coming in at a great height. This time though he gets a lock on, shit..off with the flares as I take a hit..the view gets a tad blury for a second as the jet shakes. I spray madly at him with the guns but not registering as a kill immediately I revert to something even more deadly. Yup, its bomb time you grunt. And bang, in one swoop I get to scratch another kill on the side of my jet. That takes care of 2 SAMS. I feel a further degree of satisfaction as I look back down & see a friendly chopper fly past the SAM I just destroyed..unharmed & free to fly on to his destination.

A short time later Im in the thick of it again, this time however in a slightly different way. I notice im flying higher than I used to but so are the enemy jets & even the choppers. Its a whole new world up here lol. The SAMS are back & missiles are flying around everywhere but it was cool. Chances are if their firing at me they have just as much chance of hitting someone else up here. And hey that J10 that just flew past in front of me is toast if he hasnt seen me. Hes banking as I pull up behind him so I let fly with 2 missiles to test this new patch. Normally they would taper off but not this time. One misses just but the other hits with a plume of flame bursting from it for a second. I bank off to head back to the carrier to rearm & repair & as I do I see a 'you killed xxxx' in the lower corner of my screen. More satisfaction. Later Im killed & respawn & its kind of eerie. Theres no jets attacking our carrier anymore & hey theres both the jet AND the Cobra just sitting there. Now im beginning to really like this game.

Im playing only my 2nd round in the jet mainly since the new patch & the round finishes. Ive come second top in my team. Pipped at the post.

So in summary. I like the patch. The jets no longer dominate. Gone are the days of flying around the WHOLE round in the jet, finishing top with 40+ kills & not dying once. But I couldnt care less. I found last night flying the jet is no longer a yawn. It takes skill to get up there & stay alive now & I love the challenge. I love the game of cat & mouse with the AA. Though sometimes no amount of skill in the world will save you if you have 2 AA & one jet locked onto you thats just the way it is. Same as if your team only has one flag & your getting killed as soon as you spawn. Its just part of the game.

But the patch has brought the AA into it. After 50,000 global points & 6 mths of playing with 750 hrs playing time, Ive only spent 11 hrs in AA. Thats likely to change.

Ive yet to see how the new AA affects the choppers. I expect this will be the down side. I cant possibly see how a chopper can avoid AA with only a few flares to throw now & then, & without it having speed on its side, as does the jet. And if they have made them weaker then I dont expect I'll be flying choppers too much.

But as far as flying a jet goes & the new AA. Its made it more of a team game. The AA IS now a factor & it needs to be dealt with. If you have a good team the guys on the ground will help to take them out so jets can bomb. Jets will take them out so choppers can fly. And on that note I found myself doing that last night. Rather than just spamming the enemy heli pad I found myself looking out for my teams choppers. Seeing one head toward a flag I would fly ahead & take out the AA where I could. Rather than being a lone ranger in a jet Im more a team player now. Theres more purpose in the jet.

And though it may change in future it doesnt appear as though players congregate as much on jet/chopper spawns like they used to. The jets stay away from the carrier as its almost certain death if both AA are manned. This is a good thing. And on that I noticed last night as I took off in the jet & glanced at the map something odd. From the rear of the carrier there were no less than SIX boats heading off to Wake Island. That must have been a sight if you were in the last boat. And there were 2 more heading off from the bow.

With the new AA give the choppers MORE armour & flares, but apart from that the patch seems to be a plus. My 2 cents.

PS Mods please move this to the correct forum (sorry).
thats the most positive read Ive read yet
and I commend you for it
Im guessing your no little kid,unlike those children crying a river because its no longer"easy" for pilots
instead,you atleast sound more mature about the whole patch thing
once all get used to and adapt to the change
the game will be better for everyone
I tip my hat to ya mac...
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6906|Peoria
Yknow, right before the patch was released, i was really finally getting into flying. I had sat down one day and convinced myself i could fly the jet even without a joystick. And once i got up there and did it, I wasn't that bad. I mean, I'm in no way a flyboy, I only have a couple hourse in the jet, but I've noticed that its not particularly difficult, even with the patch. A few barrel rolls will sometimes shake a missle and often confuse jet pilots.

Heck, I even got to pull the famous Top Gun manuever, "Hit the brakes, he's fly right by."
|DL|Krokkieboy
Member
+16|6935
As a Pilot I agree the missiles should be better but as i always check my back,and I see weird things when the rockets hit me on a God Knows way ,*Or it freezes and seems to stick on your yet*and hits you 2 seconds after            (thats the USS essex) and when fighting enemy planes the missile gets past the plane first for like 30 meters and then takes a 180 degrees turn and impacts on the plane.

Im not some silly plane noob , i might only have 75 hours , but still a kdr ratio of 20+ i mainly get with dogfights.I played bf1942 2 years as a pilot so not that inexperienced.Adter patch it will prolly still eb the same cause those missiles really work in the better fighters advantage as posted at the start of this forum.Just fly high and use it as an advantage.


Rather had them to do some work on the friendly vehicles showing up as boxes when in a plane , caus ethta shit still there!!!!!

My comment on the patch .....EA atleast made it a little more realistic and no teleporting missiles impacting like that, and listened more to pilots opinion then cryboys abt omg he's tankwhoring ,chopperwhoring, hopping , and tubing , and whoring whatever they like.
I mean aren't the Whores just the one that mastered the art?
Molten_Lava
Member
+0|6972
One of the best posts I have read on this forum, thank you for taking the time to write it. Very good explanation of your perspective from the air.
=TFS=DEVILS.HITMAN
Member
+60|6907|Under the River
Thank you I'm not much of a pilot myself but ive been geting better I'm getting sick of all these I hate 1.2 stuff and I think everyone in the bf2 community will get used to it and quite complaining. They do have a couple of bugs to fix but thats not a problem. Great read by the way.
Stealth42o
She looked 18 to me officer
+175|6931
GREAT post flyboy.  I loved jumping on the AA before the patch, now it is a lot of fun.  However I have noticed the pilots are getting smart and flying high and climbing out quickly.

So the real pilots are flying.

The real inf's are still shooting.

And the bunny hoppers, whores, etc are on here bitching.  FIne by me.

Great patch.  And again, great post.
squeeky1025
Member
+2|6906
Excellent post Dude. I totally agree with you, i think  the new patch makes everything more evened out ,now  the ground troops have some sort of chance. And all the pilots that are doing the bitching and whining should just learn to fly a plane the right way instead of baseraping the carriers and airfields.
-=|BW|=-Hollow_Moon
Member
+5|7014
It was interesting to see what regulars on my clans server made of the patch & watching how they developed new tactics to play. At first many players were queing for the planes as usual, then people start howling on that people are hacking with the AA. Then I explain about the patch & everyone ctahes on too understanding its not a hack.

Hours later you see choppers & planes left at uncappables & more work on the ground etc. Its great to see squads getting put up & used properly for once. I saw players actualy ask for things when I was commanding! its brilliant.

No doubt there are still problems with the game, glitches things that still need balancing etc, but this patch brings us that little bit closer to a BF2 we can all enjoy. You just have to take the bitter with the sweet.
Ekfud
Infantry Whore
+42|6935|Kingswood Country
Excellent post - very balanced view of what a patch should be; basically a change in balance of the game metrics that evolves the way we play. I doubt I can do similar justice, but caught similar issues in the helo.

I rarely get a chance to fly choppers (I HATE camping out at pads amongst Tking wackos), but would argue that I do fly ok once I steal one (too many hours in the little bird on DC). Normally my gunner gets more kills, but we do far better than me going for single infantry with the pilot rockets.

I was surprised to join a Sharqi server and find the Cobra unused (despite the server being almost full).

I jumped in, messaged the team for anyone to squad up & go gunner - waited for support and took off. As per standard practice for an airborne platform of death, I took us towards the enemy. We got chewed up within about 15 seconds by a .50 cal on the back of a jeep. We got shot down by a jeep? WTF?

Respawning (there is still NOONE on the tv station roof), we take off again. This time we take off around the back of the station, keep about 10m off the ground and start looking for targets. We pick off a few infantry and a call for support at the alley way comes over.

We circle around the island (still low) and creep up to the alleyway flag to see an enemy tank and handful of infantry in support about to cap it. I pop up to avoid the tank cannon (I really don't want to know what a shell will do to choppers now), and the gunner nails it with a tv missle but not before the .50 on the turret takes almost half our health off. We hit one or two more infantry before an AA missle (still don't know where from) takes us down.

We probably got 7-8 kills out of the flight; still great KD ratio alongside infantry but nowhere near the 30+ kills the cobra used to rack up. And it was fun. I can see dueling with tanks coming into this more - next flight we were far more careful to circle around the tank spotted on map to get the back of it and avoid the 50 cal.

Next death the bloody gunner steals the chopper and I end up on foot - no problem, I prefer to whore infantry anyway. When I finally catch the MEC chopper above us on foot I am no longer trying to crawl into a small hole somewhere and wait for the bad men to go away. I am looking for AA, tank, or even a jeep and try and nail it.

It felt like what used to happen on BF1942 - a really lucky pistol shot might take down a jeep driver or turret gunner. So you were always trying to go head to head with anything for one of those 'magic moments'.

Granted - red/blue bugs, 2 second prone being annoying, and the other junk that goes with the new patch are all there as well. Still - a change is like a holiday and relearning tactics feels good so far.

Btw - slightly pissed that I just got my AA ribbon the hardway, but hadn't yet qualified for chopper ;-)
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7102|Bryan/College Station, TX
Can't agree more as I said in my comments in the "ramble about it 1.2 thread" AA is much harder now. It will take smarter and more skilled pilots to really fly those jets and choppers well. The bar has officially been raised and it's now time for us to meet it's new expectations.

Cheers.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Beatdown Patrol
Member
+1|6997
Very good post.  I have noticed that the pilots with actual talent are still effective and deadly.  The reduced range on the AA means that sitting in an AA turret waiting for a jet to come along is inviting your death. 

The changes on the ground game are mostly positive.

- Beatdown
Kung Jew
That one mod
+331|7004|Houston, TX
Another Kudos for posting such a great perspective.  It's good to see that the real pilots are emerging from the point farmers and jet whores.

KJ
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6995|Salt Lake City

Great post.  It's nice to see some flyers that don't see this as nerfing their ability to just rape everything round, after round, after round.  There are definitely some adjustments to be made, but the air support vehicles now have more balanced role in the overall scheme of things.
blacksheepcannibal
Member
+24|7011
I dont have the credentials of flying for several hundred hours, but i do have a pretty good kill : death ratio in the air, because i love flying (in any game), and im fairly good at it. I just havent been playing BF2 all that much lately.

I agree that jets needed a nerf. Gone indeed are the days of staying in a single jet the entire round.

*however*

The helicopter took more than a nerf. The attack helicopter has be *hobbled*. Im no great chopper pilot, and in fact, i generally stay away from them, but *pre-patch* i was taking them down with what was the real AA vehicle pre-patch: the .50 cal on top of any jeep or buggy. now, however, helis are so weak because anybody can take them down, or at the very least, drive them away. Now i know that helis are pretty powerful, but there is a very sound reason for that: so are tanks. Any map with armor in it, is supposed to be balanced against powerful CAS. No longer is there CAS, because jets are moreso worried on the AA and fighter side (as they should be), and because attack helis can be taken down by light machine gunners. I admit, a really good pilot, and a really good gunner can still compete, but unless both of them have a pretty large amount of skill, they are really just somebody elses kills waiting to happen.

I sincerely hope they recognize this for the next patch, because on some maps, armor is just getting out of hand. I agree with beefing up the AA; it needed it. I agree with decreasing the jets hp; jets needed a nerf, and they got it. But helis are much more defenseless against AA.

Perhaps time will tell and things will balance out, but in the mean time, it looks like my time in Anti-Armor class is gonna start rising...
Rinser
Member
+0|6903
I just love the choppers, especially the Cobra and life is certainley tougher since the patch, that's for sure.  Prior to the patch with a decent gunner I could rack up the points with a K/D of 20/1 without even thinking about it. 

Since the patch, I now have to fly the thing and so far am maintaining about 15/1 K/D.  I choose to fly along just above the ground until the very last moment then pop up on full power and kill the target.  I now have to make use of the hills and other obstacles rather than parking my death machine on top of them and taking a breather !!

Yes the AA, mobile and mounted, are tougher than I think they really should be but all in all, I think they have put a bit of the challenge back into the game for us pilots and evened up the odds a little for the ground forces.
Flyboy63
Member
+8|6963|South Australia

Rinser wrote:

I choose to fly along just above the ground until the very last moment then pop up on full power and kill the target.  I now have to make use of the hills and other obstacles rather than parking my death machine on top of them and taking a breather !!
And IMO thats the way it is in real life. Hit & run.
ExitWound
Member
+0|6940
Finally a pilot that has a positive outlook on the patch. Congrats and continue to own

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