Wave of anti-abortion Bills sweeps US

2011-04-02 13:03:00

#476

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Uzique wrote:
'life' in the same sense that a sperm cell is 'alive'.

'life' in the sense of a 'human life', i.e. a conscious individual... no.

i'm extinguishing life when i take a shit and dump tons of bacteria out of my asshole

not shedding any tears

Is the feces going to develop into anything other than feces? No.

Apples and oranges.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:04:18

#477

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5704|foggy bottom

neither will the sperm cell if its aborted

Tu Stultus Es

2011-04-02 13:05:55

#478

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5704|foggy bottom

god damn jains

Tu Stultus Es

2011-04-02 13:08:15

#479

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
neither will the sperm cell if its aborted

What sperm? Why are you trying to downplay it too? I didn't realize so many people want life sugar coated for them.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:11:18

#480

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5704|foggy bottom

wtf sugar coat? if anything is sugar coating its trying to attach the same kind of value of a human life to a collection of cells

Tu Stultus Es

2011-04-02 13:12:23

#481

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:
'life' in the same sense that a sperm cell is 'alive'.

'life' in the sense of a 'human life', i.e. a conscious individual... no.

i'm extinguishing life when i take a shit and dump tons of bacteria out of my asshole

not shedding any tears
Is the feces going to develop into anything other than feces? No.

Apples and oranges.

what, and comparing the consciousness of a collection of cells to an elderly person suffering alzheimers is bananas-to-bananas, i assume?

rofl

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:16:05

#482

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
wtf sugar coat? if anything is sugar coating its trying to attach the same kind of value of a human life to a collection of cells

So when does it become human to you? I don't have a problem with abortion. I also don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:16:58

#483

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Uzique wrote:
Jay wrote:
Uzique wrote:
'life' in the same sense that a sperm cell is 'alive'.

'life' in the sense of a 'human life', i.e. a conscious individual... no.

i'm extinguishing life when i take a shit and dump tons of bacteria out of my asshole

not shedding any tears
Is the feces going to develop into anything other than feces? No.

Apples and oranges.
what, and comparing the consciousness of a collection of cells to an elderly person suffering alzheimers is bananas-to-bananas, i assume?

rofl

I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of your definition.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:23:06

#484

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

what? my definition of 'life', in the sense of the word that we semantically attribute to a 'living' human being, is something that is individual, i.e. self-sustaining independent of the mother organism, with sentience/sensory perceptions and an intellect or consciousness, i.e. capable of reasoning and (basic) rationalisation. a person with alzheimers has BEEN alive for, what, 50 years? a ball of cells HAS NEVER BEEN ALIVE. my definition isn't ridiculous - your logic is.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:25:14

#485

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Uzique wrote:
what? my definition of 'life', in the sense of the word that we semantically attribute to a 'living' human being, is something that is individual, i.e. self-sustaining independent of the mother organism, with sentience/sensory perceptions and an intellect or consciousness, i.e. capable of reasoning and (basic) rationalisation. a person with alzheimers has BEEN alive for, what, 50 years? a ball of cells HAS NEVER BEEN ALIVE. my definition isn't ridiculous - your logic is.

is a five year old independent of the mother organism?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:26:23

#486

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

yes. it is performing all the basic functions of life independent of the umbilical cord. it is breathing and thinking alone.

feeding a newborn child and things like parental care and nurture are a COMPLETELY other concern and has NOTHING to do with biology.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:32:41

#487

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

I don't see them as being separate. The child is still wholly dependent on its parents whether it's in the womb or out in the world and running about. This is much of the reason why children are considered property and not fit to make their own decisions.

Morally, there's no difference between infanticide, abortion, or dropping your kids off in the woods Hansel and Gretel style. It's still the parents deciding to kill their offspring. The only real difference is that one of the three is currently socially acceptable while the other two are taboo.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:35:19

#488

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

so a red blob on a handkerchief is the same as a little baby child, now? you're conflating things wildly for your (contrarian) convenience. consciousness is the operative and crucial point here: a foetus has no individual consciousness, and a baby does. it is human consciousness and sapience that distinguishes us from ordinary beasts, and to reduce that to no importance and make a 5 year old child and a 5 week old ball of cells the same thing in brute biological definition is absolutely ridiculous.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:36:59

#489

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7096|USA

Uzique wrote:
yes. it is performing all the basic functions of life independent of the umbilical cord. it is breathing and thinking alone.

feeding a newborn child and things like parental care and nurture are a COMPLETELY other concern and has NOTHING to do with biology.

If you are emotionless on this issue why not just admit abortion is terminating life? Then we can discuss the reasons and the morality later.

Ya know, in the death penalty thread, the hypocrisy of being pro death penalty and anti abortion was mentioned. Is it not hypocritical and illogical to support the termination an innocent life, while speaking of the sanctity of human life trying to save a murderer?

2011-04-02 13:38:22

#490

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

i am arguing exactly that abortion isn't terminating life because human 'life', in our semantic use of term, designates a whole lot more than mere cell activity. why are you so fucking stupid? read my posts if you're going to engage with them. READ THEM. R E A D.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:40:55

#491

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7096|USA

Uzique wrote:
so a red blob on a handkerchief is the same as a little baby child, now? you're conflating things wildly for your (contrarian) convenience. consciousness is the operative and crucial point here: a foetus has no individual consciousness, and a baby does. it is human consciousness and sapience that distinguishes us from ordinary beasts, and to reduce that to no importance and make a 5 year old child and a 5 week old ball of cells the same thing in brute biological definition is absolutely ridiculous.

well if you want to speak of brute biological definition are the DNA genetic make up complete at 5 weeks. The biological stone has been cast. Boy or girl, blue eyes green eyes, brunet, blonde, tall, short, healthy, sick etc all has been decided biologically has it not?

2011-04-02 13:42:23

#492

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

did you just skip the 4 lines above that about consciousness being the key human distinction or what

honestly it seems like you pick up on buzzwords, e.g. "islam" or "biology" and then just spout your usual shit

a debate involves a dialogue. read my posts. READ THEM. R E A D.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:43:29

#493

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7096|USA

Uzique wrote:
i am arguing exactly that abortion isn't terminating life because human 'life', in our semantic use of term, designates a whole lot more than mere cell activity. why are you so fucking stupid? read my posts if you're going to engage with them. READ THEM. R E A D.

LOL I did read them that is why I said WHY NOT agree on what abortion is doing. You have no emotional attachment to it and do not care if a fetus is terminated, so WHY NOT call it what it is...terminating life.

at 5 weeks, you are in fact stopping a beating heart.

Last edited by lowing (2011-04-02 13:43:54)

2011-04-02 13:43:31

#494

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Whatever helps you sleep at night uzique.

And I'm not purposely being contrarian. I've actually thought a lot about the topic because it's a difficult one for someone with my philosophical persuasion. I've simply decided that I can only know my own situation and can't possibly know or understand the situations that other people find themselves in so who am I to try to place restrictions on them. It is quite possible to be pro-choice and yet believe that life begins at conception. They aren't mutually exclusive.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:47:36

#495

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6850|North Carolina

I just don't get why people give a fuck about conception. For the first few months, the fetus is pretty simplistic and doesn't really resemble a fully grown baby.

A zygote is like a glorified tumor.

I understand when people want to limit things later during the process, but to draw the line at conception is just dumb, really.

2011-04-02 13:48:18

#496

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7096|USA

Uzique wrote:
did you just skip the 4 lines above that about consciousness being the key human distinction or what

honestly it seems like you pick up on buzzwords, e.g. "islam" or "biology" and then just spout your usual shit

a debate involves a dialogue. read my posts. READ THEM. R E A D.

Ohhhhhhhhhh I was speaking biological ( basically because you did). I didn't known a conscience was considered biological.

2011-04-02 13:48:45

#497

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6915

whatever helps me sleep at night? for someone with such a wide-read philosophical basis for your beliefs, you're surprisingly disallowing of other views. poor intellectual tbh.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2011-04-02 13:49:51

#498

lowing: Banned; +1,662|7096|USA

Turquoise wrote:
I just don't get why people give a fuck about conception. For the first few months, the fetus is pretty simplistic and doesn't really resemble a fully grown baby.

A zygote is like a glorified tumor.

I understand when people want to limit things later during the process, but to draw the line at conception is just dumb, really.

Where is that line drawn turqouise?

At 25 weeks the fetus has brain activity, does that mean at 24 weeks and 6 days and 23 hours you are good to go for abortion because some dipshit just changed the criteria for life to be defined as being conscious now?

Last edited by lowing (2011-04-02 13:53:32)

2011-04-02 13:50:18

#499

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Turquoise wrote:
I just don't get why people give a fuck about conception. For the first few months, the fetus is pretty simplistic and doesn't really resemble a fully grown baby.

A zygote is like a glorified tumor.

I understand when people want to limit things later during the process, but to draw the line at conception is just dumb, really.

Any line drawing is wholly arbitrary.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-04-02 13:53:38

#500

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5803|London, England

Uzique wrote:
whatever helps me sleep at night? for someone with such a wide-read philosophical basis for your beliefs, you're surprisingly disallowing of other views. poor intellectual tbh.

I'm not disallowing of other views, I just strongly believe in being straight forward with definitions. I just don't really see a difference between a zygote and a newborn. Neither is really human by your definition but tossing one in the dumpster will get you a jail sentence while doing the same with the other will only get you pelted with fake blood and picket signs

It's just a weird path that society has taken in my eyes, that's all. I really don't give a fig about the morality attached to the subject.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

BF2S Forums Wave of anti-abortion Bills sweeps US

Uzique wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jay wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uzique wrote:

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