Can you put in 25 secs at your work and count as a full day ?

2011-07-10 15:02:39

#51

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|7068|Disaster Free Zone

FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Doesn't that just mean corporations are under taxed, or more tax should be loaded somewhere else?
80% of revenue loaded on income tax is daft, and why the economy and govt spending goes in such huge cycles.

Fuel tax, purchase tax, corporation tax would even things out a lot.
Those taxes exist. Just that 80% of fed revenues are from individual income taxes. Those are the other 20.

Seriously? They only make up 38% here.

2011-07-10 17:44:59

#52

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6797|'Murka

DrunkFace wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Doesn't that just mean corporations are under taxed, or more tax should be loaded somewhere else?
80% of revenue loaded on income tax is daft, and why the economy and govt spending goes in such huge cycles.

Fuel tax, purchase tax, corporation tax would even things out a lot.
Those taxes exist. Just that 80% of fed revenues are from individual income taxes. Those are the other 20.
Seriously? They only make up 38% here.

Which? Income, or "other"?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-07-10 18:05:20

#53

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

https://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.

Last edited by Spark (2011-07-10 18:05:35)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-10 18:10:06

#54

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6797|'Murka

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/images/Numbers_Figure-1_What-are-fed-govts-sources-of-revenue_3.gif

Income + payroll tax (SS & Medicare) = 81%

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-07-10 18:17:10

#55

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Off-hand, what would you say the equivalent figure for Aus given the above graph is?

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-10 18:42:38

#56

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6797|'Murka

AUS$321,821M total revenue
AUS$137,070M from income taxes
42.59% from income taxes

If you throw in the "fringe benefits taxation" (whatever that is):

AUS$141,080M => 43.84%

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-07-10 18:50:00

#57

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Basically it's taxes on anything your employer "pays" you that isn't actually money. Ie. a work car and the like.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-10 20:11:32

#58

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|7068|Disaster Free Zone

FEOS wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:
FEOS wrote:

Those taxes exist. Just that 80% of fed revenues are from individual income taxes. Those are the other 20.
Seriously? They only make up 38% here.
Which? Income, or "other"?

Income
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf … &view=

2011-07-10 21:34:08

#59

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

You have to include payroll tax in that though, so the ~43% figure makes sense

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-11 01:16:10

#60

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6492|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing … enue_3.gif

Income + payroll tax (SS & Medicare) = 81%

Payroll is not much different from income tax really, wow what a crap system.

Fuck Israel

2011-07-11 02:42:58

#61

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6797|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:
FEOS wrote:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing … enue_3.gif

Income + payroll tax (SS & Medicare) = 81%
Payroll is not much different from income tax really, wow what a crap system.

No shit.

Hence why just mucking with the individual income tax rates is just putting lipstick on the pig.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-07-11 05:03:46

#62

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Spark wrote:
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.

I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 06:20:59

#63

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6492|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.
I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.

If half of taxpayers get a refund isn't that counterproductive?

Fuck Israel

2011-07-11 06:28:46

#64

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.
I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.
If half of taxpayers get a refund isn't that counterproductive?

Well, refund means something different than the way you are using it, but yes, the system is broken. Blame the socialists that keep trying to dump the entire burden on the above average. Harrison Bergeron says hi.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 06:33:29

#65

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.
I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.

But doesn't that tie govt income directly to personal incomes a bit too strongly? I don't know. Our system works, and works quite well.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-11 06:37:14

#66

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
http://www.ato.gov.au/content/images/00263886-1.gif

Source: ATO.

A year old, but, yeah... 80% of revenue from income tax is a bit daft.
I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.
But doesn't that tie govt income directly to personal incomes a bit too strongly? I don't know. Our system works, and works quite well.

It comes out of income regardless. Doesn't matter if it's sales, income or property tax, it all comes out of your paycheck. Pure income tax just removes the possibility of social engineering via coercive excise taxesn

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 06:37:48

#67

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:

I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.
But doesn't that tie govt income directly to personal incomes a bit too strongly? I don't know. Our system works, and works quite well.
It comes out of income regardless. Doesn't matter if it's sales, income or property tax, it all comes out of your paycheck. Pure income tax just removes the possibility of social engineering via coercive excise taxesn

True, but it works, so I'm happy with it.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-11 06:40:06

#68

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
But doesn't that tie govt income directly to personal incomes a bit too strongly? I don't know. Our system works, and works quite well.
It comes out of income regardless. Doesn't matter if it's sales, income or property tax, it all comes out of your paycheck. Pure income tax just removes the possibility of social engineering via coercive excise taxesn
True, but it works, so I'm happy with it.

So does ours. We'd be in this mess no matter what our tax system looked like. The only thing that would prevent it is a balanced budget constitutional amendment.

Last edited by Jay (2011-07-11 06:40:35)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 06:40:28

#69

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6492|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:

I prefer it. We know exactly how much we pay in tax every year. Yours is spread out, making it seem like your government takes less. F that. I want politicians held accountable when they raise taxes and for it to be visible to all.
If half of taxpayers get a refund isn't that counterproductive?
Well, refund means something different than the way you are using it, but yes, the system is broken. Blame the socialists that keep trying to dump the entire burden on the above average. Harrison Bergeron says hi.

So its just that taxes are high, not that its all lumped on income, thats the problem.
Thats odd because the govt doesn't seem to be collecting enough tax, under Republicans or Democrats.

Germany says hi, they're socialist and doing very well.

Fuck Israel

2011-07-11 06:42:17

#70

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:

It comes out of income regardless. Doesn't matter if it's sales, income or property tax, it all comes out of your paycheck. Pure income tax just removes the possibility of social engineering via coercive excise taxesn
True, but it works, so I'm happy with it.
So does ours. We'd be in this mess no matter what our tax system looked like. The only thing that would prevent it is a balanced budget constitutional amendment.

Ah, but I meant "works" in that we aren't in an unholy mess, just a minor irritant that some equally minor belt-tightening over a few years couldn't fix :p

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-11 06:43:37

#71

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

If half of taxpayers get a refund isn't that counterproductive?
Well, refund means something different than the way you are using it, but yes, the system is broken. Blame the socialists that keep trying to dump the entire burden on the above average. Harrison Bergeron says hi.
So its just that taxes are high, not that its all lumped on income, thats the problem.
Thats odd because the govt doesn't seem to be collecting enough tax, under Republicans or Democrats.

Germany says hi, they're socialist and doing very well.

They don't have a seesawing split personality. They recognize their socialism and pay for it. The (R)s try to kill the socialist programs every time they are in office.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 06:44:39

#72

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7061|Canberra, AUS

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:

Well, refund means something different than the way you are using it, but yes, the system is broken. Blame the socialists that keep trying to dump the entire burden on the above average. Harrison Bergeron says hi.
So its just that taxes are high, not that its all lumped on income, thats the problem.
Thats odd because the govt doesn't seem to be collecting enough tax, under Republicans or Democrats.

Germany says hi, they're socialist and doing very well.
They don't have a seesawing split personality. They recognize their socialism and pay for it. The (R)s try to kill the socialist programs every time they are in office.

This sounds to me like the most important thing by far is a coherent, stable policy, and what that policy actually is becomes slightly secondary...

...which makes total sense to me.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2011-07-11 06:45:10

#73

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Spark wrote:
Jay wrote:
Spark wrote:

True, but it works, so I'm happy with it.
So does ours. We'd be in this mess no matter what our tax system looked like. The only thing that would prevent it is a balanced budget constitutional amendment.
Ah, but I meant "works" in that we aren't in an unholy mess, just a minor irritant that some equally minor belt-tightening over a few years couldn't fix :p

Americans want nice things, they just prefer to pay on credit

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2011-07-11 07:01:17

#74

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,820|6492|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:

Well, refund means something different than the way you are using it, but yes, the system is broken. Blame the socialists that keep trying to dump the entire burden on the above average. Harrison Bergeron says hi.
So its just that taxes are high, not that its all lumped on income, thats the problem.
Thats odd because the govt doesn't seem to be collecting enough tax, under Republicans or Democrats.

Germany says hi, they're socialist and doing very well.
They don't have a seesawing split personality. They recognize their socialism and pay for it. The (R)s try to kill the socialist programs every time they are in office.

No they don't, they invariably increase spending.

Fuck Israel

2011-07-11 07:19:23

#75

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5745|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:

So its just that taxes are high, not that its all lumped on income, thats the problem.
Thats odd because the govt doesn't seem to be collecting enough tax, under Republicans or Democrats.

Germany says hi, they're socialist and doing very well.
They don't have a seesawing split personality. They recognize their socialism and pay for it. The (R)s try to kill the socialist programs every time they are in office.
No they don't, they invariably increase spending.

Yes, mostly on the DoD.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

BF2S Forums Can you put in 25 secs at your work and count as a full day ?

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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