Good post.... says the guy with a 0.62 kill/death ratio.nodehopper wrote:
Ok...all those Heli Pilots who think they are "Maverick" ....It isn't always your gunners fault you die. Take some responsiblity.
I don't know how many times I hop in as gunner and get the arrogant sounding pilot..."You DO now how to use the TV....right?"
Well yah.... I am not the best in the world, but I can get the job done.
Do pilots realize that the small rectangular box at the bottom of the HUD display for the pilot is the view the TV monitor sees??? Hop in a US heli and it even says in English "gunner view". So why does the pilot go straight at an AA target with his nose down? The gunner view in the TV screen is either water or dirt. The TV points down at like a 10 to 20 degree angle depending on heli if the helicopter is at a 30 degree angle going forward then the TV monitor is looking nearly straight down. The pilot has to take some responablity for setting up a TV shot.
So we attack nose down. I switch to TV and see nothing but water. We get blown up and the pilot is screaming at me that it is my fault for not hitting with the TV. DUH!! Instead the pilot needs to use a little strategy, sneak up on the target if possible and then nose up quickly and put the gunner view box on the target so the gunner can get a good shot off. The pilots job is to give his gunner a good shot.
Again the TV is looking down. IF there is an enemy heli around....pilot .....get some altitude and come up on the enemy heli from above. I don't know how many times I have had a stupid pilot go at an enemy heli that is 40 degrees above my head screaming at me to use my TV. Then acting like I am a moron because we died. Not to mention that pilots need to remember that it takes a long time for the TV missiles to reload. I fired a wild shot because the pilot is nose down or below the target and he is screaming at me because I am using the machine gun. Well.....what else do I do waiting for the next missile???
The two man Heli team needs to work together more than any other team in the game. Pilots should be 90% concerned about staying alive and setting up the gunner for easy shots. With the long reload times, a well set up shot is better than a wild one. I am sure I will get flamed with "yah I can shoot a missile at a target 90 degrees above my head or all the way across the map and behind a hill." Well, if I am missing some trick of the trade then explain how to do it and I will STFU and go practice till I am as good.
But, if not, then maybe some heli pilots should remember that when a gunner besides their best buddy jumps in, it is a 50/50 responsiblity how things go. Give the gunner a break. If you are such a great pilot then you will make even a mediocre gunner good and after some time of getting used to each other you might find that they are better than you thought, maybe they just do things differently than your buddy you are used to flying with.
OH and stop teamkilling so you and your buddy can whore the chopper.
Ok.....I have vented.
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- Heli pilots - stop blaming your gunner
but what happens when your gunner is so shitty that he kills himself with a TV missilePRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
mmm... yes, think about that one for a minute
HAHA I dont allow 3 year olds in my helocopter. Its always the dumbasses gunners fault
if you dont know how to gun, dont get in my F'in chopper...understand? I TK stupid people who get in my chopper all the time. I'm a damn good pilot and i get pissed off when i get a moron in my gunner seat. Some people dont know HOW to use the TV missle...strike number one. If im lookin in a certain direction close to the ground and you just look around like a dumbass when hes right F'in there stupid... strike 2. And get the hell outta my chopper when i tell you to....all i gata say about that...most of the time, its the gunners fault.
if you dont know how to gun, dont get in my F'in chopper...understand? I TK stupid people who get in my chopper all the time. I'm a damn good pilot and i get pissed off when i get a moron in my gunner seat. Some people dont know HOW to use the TV missle...strike number one. If im lookin in a certain direction close to the ground and you just look around like a dumbass when hes right F'in there stupid... strike 2. And get the hell outta my chopper when i tell you to....all i gata say about that...most of the time, its the gunners fault.
Thats true to a point, but there are some situations where the pilot really can't do a thing. To use your chain of command analogy, it would be like the squad leader telling his subordinate to cover his back, and then he gets stabbed because his buddy was around the corner picking his nose. It goes both ways; I do consider it my fault when the chopper goes down and I was flying, but I also know there have been many times when an easy shot on the gunners part would have saved us both.PRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
And then there are times when there really isnt anything the pilot can do. If you get caught in the open in plain sight of an AA vehicle at medium range, what can you do as a pilot? You might be able to hit it with rockets, provided he doesn't move, but I wouldn't bet on it. You might be able to run, but again thats pretty iffy given the effectiveness of AA missiles. If theres nothing to hide behind, your best bet is to line the gunner up and hope he takes the relatively simple shot.
Of course you can argue that as the pilot you shouldn't have been out in the open where you know there might be AA, but lets face facts: Everything you do is a calculated risk, but having a compotent gunner increases the odds quite a bit.
in that situation, i usually tell the gunner to bail, and i go into uberevasion mode, and end up crashing into the ground or i get disoriented and i throw up all over my keyboardSkruples wrote:
And then there are times when there really isnt anything the pilot can do. If you get caught in the open in plain sight of an AA vehicle at medium range, what can you do as a pilot? You might be able to hit it with rockets, provided he doesn't move, but I wouldn't bet on it. You might be able to run, but again thats pretty iffy given the effectiveness of AA missiles. If theres nothing to hide behind, your best bet is to line the gunner up and hope he takes the relatively simple shot.
Of course you can argue that as the pilot you shouldn't have been out in the open where you know there might be AA, but lets face facts: Everything you do is a calculated risk, but having a compotent gunner increases the odds quite a bit.
Bail leave the gunner to his certain fate and go cap something on foot.
better yet, find salvation in naturepolarbearz wrote:
Bail leave the gunner to his certain fate and go cap something on foot.
(crash at full speed into a spruce)
Can't avoid every tv missle either. Quite frankly if you get into a tv war and your gunner is worse than there's, it's the gunners fault if you die. Well, not if you sit still.Skruples wrote:
Thats true to a point, but there are some situations where the pilot really can't do a thing. To use your chain of command analogy, it would be like the squad leader telling his subordinate to cover his back, and then he gets stabbed because his buddy was around the corner picking his nose. It goes both ways; I do consider it my fault when the chopper goes down and I was flying, but I also know there have been many times when an easy shot on the gunners part would have saved us both.PRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
And then there are times when there really isnt anything the pilot can do. If you get caught in the open in plain sight of an AA vehicle at medium range, what can you do as a pilot? You might be able to hit it with rockets, provided he doesn't move, but I wouldn't bet on it. You might be able to run, but again thats pretty iffy given the effectiveness of AA missiles. If theres nothing to hide behind, your best bet is to line the gunner up and hope he takes the relatively simple shot.
Of course you can argue that as the pilot you shouldn't have been out in the open where you know there might be AA, but lets face facts: Everything you do is a calculated risk, but having a compotent gunner increases the odds quite a bit.
And become one again with mother earth.stryyker wrote:
better yet, find salvation in naturepolarbearz wrote:
Bail leave the gunner to his certain fate and go cap something on foot.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e382/ … a/tree.gif
(crash at full speed into a spruce)
I have seen stupid pilots and stupid gunners. The game is just like life......there are idiots in both extremes.
In the game... as in life.....we should respect those who seem to be trying and beat on those who don't seem to give a shit.
I will take a team mate who is trying and playing as a team player.....even if his stats are just so-so over a jerk off who is so self absorbed that they think they are the only one on the server and everyone else is shite. Yah.....maybe the jerk will get a decent score .....but if he isn't playing with the team he is useless.
In the game... as in life.....we should respect those who seem to be trying and beat on those who don't seem to give a shit.
I will take a team mate who is trying and playing as a team player.....even if his stats are just so-so over a jerk off who is so self absorbed that they think they are the only one on the server and everyone else is shite. Yah.....maybe the jerk will get a decent score .....but if he isn't playing with the team he is useless.
absolut agree to this!PRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
personally i always fly 4 the gunner! i aim for him give him time and so on...BUT when he starts to give orders like "higher" "deeper" "fly there" "nose up" and stuff its getting annoying!
The pilot has the view of action, flying the copper (specially on stress maps like dalian) takes much more concentration than gunning @ something! sure its not easy to hit the (moving) goal but its MUCH harder to be carefull on 1000 things:
+antiair
+Tanks
+Antitanks
+50 cal
+jets
+other helos
+ground
+buildings
+antennas (sharqui)
to nodehopper :
"Do pilots realize that the small rectangular box at the bottom of the HUD display for the pilot is the view the TV monitor sees??? "
well 2 jets, 1 stinger and the enemy chopper are after ur little steel ass... DO U THINK THAT ANY Pilot HAS TIME TOO LOOK @ THAT USELESS TINY THING THERE? dont think so
"So we attack nose down. I switch to TV and see nothing but water. We get blown up and the pilot is screaming at me that it is my fault for not hitting with the TV. DUH!"
Dont fly with privates (or play special forces )....
for sure u had some bad rounds with n4ppilots but u can be sure i had hundred more bad rounds with n4pgunners that were not able to fire a tv.....
add me @ xfire and lets fly :>
Usque Ad Finem
That's some funny shit.stryyker wrote:
in that situation, i usually tell the gunner to bail, and i go into uberevasion mode, and end up crashing into the ground or i get disoriented and i throw up all over my keyboard
stryyker wrote:
but what happens when your gunner is so shitty that he kills himself with a TV missilePRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
mmm... yes, think about that one for a minute
The only similar situation i've had to that is where i put this MEC chopper into flames (about to die) but my gunner decided to TV it, we all blew up since we were so close at the time. We would have been clear if he just let it die
penis enlargements
i have found that its often the pilots fault for our death than it is my fault as a gunner.
alot of pilots dont worry about were the gunner is shooting, and often die because of it.
alot of pilots dont worry about were the gunner is shooting, and often die because of it.
awww bearz... we gotta go flying again......polarbearz wrote:
Not its not. Not exactly at least.nodehopper wrote:
Do pilots realize that the small rectangular box at the bottom of the HUD display for the pilot is the view the TV monitor sees??? Hop in a US heli and it even says in English "gunner view".
And for that matter, I hate gunners who the miss the TV and start MG on the opponent heli when his back is to us and he's far away. WTF is the idea. I'll stay nice and far to shape up your shot for you, YOU do your part by not annoucing our presence to him.
On the other side of the coin are gunners who scream at the pilot 'YOU SUCK BITCH LEARN HOW TO LINE ME UP', all the while NOT giving me chance to line them up because half the time they fire off the missile at weird angles and try to make it loop the loop to the tank while i'm circling around for a better shot, and when the shot presents it self, oh, missile reloading. kthnx.
I hate being owned in a chopper by an enemy tree. The gunner should have killed it before the tree got lock on us.
As far as I'm concerned, if it can take me down and I've got a clear shot at it, its worthy of a TV missile. I'm pretty crap at hitting other choppers with TV missiles, though my first ever TV kill was another attack chopper...
I have as much problem with bad pilots as bad gunners. What frustrates me as a pilot is a gunner ranked as high as 1st Lieutenant who still can't use the weapons properly, or doesn't pay attension. If I have an enemy soldier running around in front of me and I point the nose at the target I'd hope my gunner would spot it.
I have sympathy for misses on TV missiles, you can be pretty good and miss a few times if you're up against a slippery heli. But there are still gunners who don't wait for a good shot, but then as a gunner I have pilots who don't ever give me a good shot so I have to take difficult shots that rarely hit in the hope that they will realise I can use TV so they'll line me up.
As for the gunner view, I think you have missunderstood it. The Gunner view just shows you where the gunner is looking in machine gun mode, hopefully the gunner would look in the direction of the heli as much as possible since thats where as a pilot I would want to place all my enemys, pilots should also recognise that if the gunner view is stuck hard left or right, it may actually be worth turning.
Tip: As you saw on the screenies above, in vanilla BF the TV view looks about half way between the crosshair and the gunner view box. On special forces all the TV's point down at a much steeper angle, so you want to line the target up a bit below the gunners view box (a big difference). Not sure about the Euro forces copters?
I have sympathy for misses on TV missiles, you can be pretty good and miss a few times if you're up against a slippery heli. But there are still gunners who don't wait for a good shot, but then as a gunner I have pilots who don't ever give me a good shot so I have to take difficult shots that rarely hit in the hope that they will realise I can use TV so they'll line me up.
As for the gunner view, I think you have missunderstood it. The Gunner view just shows you where the gunner is looking in machine gun mode, hopefully the gunner would look in the direction of the heli as much as possible since thats where as a pilot I would want to place all my enemys, pilots should also recognise that if the gunner view is stuck hard left or right, it may actually be worth turning.
Tip: As you saw on the screenies above, in vanilla BF the TV view looks about half way between the crosshair and the gunner view box. On special forces all the TV's point down at a much steeper angle, so you want to line the target up a bit below the gunners view box (a big difference). Not sure about the Euro forces copters?
Last edited by c0rce (2006-05-05 01:46:40)
Remember, aim your crosshair about an 1/8 - 1/4" over the target if you're in a Cobra, or about a half inch if you're in a HIND/Havok. If you put your crosshair right on the target, depending on the circumstance, it can be a hard shot for the gunner. I always fly about 80 - 100m up depending on the map. Higher if it's more open (like Kubra or Dragon valley). That way my gunner is plenty of room for shooting ground targets. As opposed to idiots that fly 5 feet off the ground cause they think they're 1337 for being able to fly that low without crashing. That's great, but I can't see anything except weeds.TeK||drake666 wrote:
absolut agree to this!PRiMACORD wrote:
IMO if a chopper goes down, no matter what the situation is, it is the pilots fault. If the pilot lines the gunner up for a TV shot, that is his decision and his risk.
I treat it like the chain of command, the pilot being in charge will always take the blame when shit hits the fan.
personally i always fly 4 the gunner! i aim for him give him time and so on...BUT when he starts to give orders like "higher" "deeper" "fly there" "nose up" and stuff its getting annoying!
By the way, in a heli vs. heli battle, the better pilot wins..not the better gunner. All the gunner has to do is point and shoot, the pilot has to dodge incoming fire, maintain altitude, and get the gunner good shots. Even if the gunner can't kill it with a TV missle, a better pilot will be able to get above and behind the opposing heli, and the gunner can then fill it with lead.
It doesn't matter how well you can fly a helicoptor. It matters how well you know the map, plain and simple. You could be the best pilot in the whole game, but if you don't know the map you won't do well at all. I know roughly where every AA site is on every heli map. I know where the AA missles are coming from based on where I am in the map. This is why I do well flying, because I know where to run and where it's coming from.
By the way, communication is critical in a chopper. You can't expect some random guy in the server to know what you want him to do, unless you tell him. If you know there's going to be a linebacker over the top of the next hill, but your gunner doesn't, how do you expect him to quickly take it out? He may be wanting to shoot something else and not be ready.
In most cases, it is the pilot's fault for dying. Be it lack of communication, or poor judgement, either way it's the pilot's fault.
Tell me about it. When I fly and see a target, depending on where the target is, I usually point my nose down and then pull back a bit so I can gain some altitude, that way if he misses he has time to reload and shoot again.c0rce wrote:
But there are still gunners who don't wait for a good shot
But if my gunner sees the enemy tank/apc/whatever it may be, they usually fire as soon as they see it, missing because of the steep angle I'm at. If they had waited another second or two, they would have been able to just click and the missle would have gone straight to it.. but they dont.
I don't think I've ever had the pleasure to gun for you but I would sure as hell like to.polarbearz wrote:
And for that matter, I hate gunners who the miss the TV and start MG on the opponent heli when his back is to us and he's far away. WTF is the idea. I'll stay nice and far to shape up your shot for you, YOU do your part by not annoucing our presence to him.
On the other side of the coin are gunners who scream at the pilot 'YOU SUCK BITCH LEARN HOW TO LINE ME UP', all the while NOT giving me chance to line them up because half the time they fire off the missile at weird angles and try to make it loop the loop to the tank while i'm circling around for a better shot, and when the shot presents it self, oh, missile reloading. kthnx.
(This post was originally much longer but I'm gonna settle for this)
//Best regards TV-guider who says "Sorry" when he misses and "Thank you" when the pilot lines him up for a nice shot
Thats not true at all. Lining up a tv shot on a chopper is not easy, it's beyond easy, the same goes for maintaining altitude ect ect. It doesn't take much skill to learn that.CrazeD wrote:
By the way, in a heli vs. heli battle, the better pilot wins..not the better gunner. All the gunner has to do is point and shoot, the pilot has to dodge incoming fire, maintain altitude, and get the gunner good shots. Even if the gunner can't kill it with a TV missle, a better pilot will be able to get above and behind the opposing heli, and the gunner can then fill it with lead.
If your opponent has a good tv user and you don't, yours will miss and you will die. Fancy acrobatics help sometimes but heli vs heli at long range is really up to the gunner.
Pointing and shooting only works if the enemy chopper is completely still, if you've spotted one and it is moving transversally at speed it is a shot most novice TV users will miss.
Closerange is up to the pilot, agree there. I love getting behind a heli and filling em with rockets
Let's see. You have a pilot who can barely keep the bird in the air, with a very good gunner. The pilot just hovers there, getting the gunner a shot. Then the enemy chopper fires a TV missle, dodges the incoming TV missle, and blows you up.
You have a very good pilot, and a mediocre gunner. The pilot dodges the incoming TV missles, while still lining up the gunner for shots...even if the gunner can't make them. The pilot slowly gains altitude and closes the gap between the heli's, all the while avoiding missles and gunfire, and trying to give the gunner a good shot.
You see what I'm saying? I didn't say gunning was easy, just that piloting takes more concentration and more multi-tasking. Really, all a gunner has to do is sit back and click the mouse around... that's simplifying gunning a lot, but that's really all they have to do. They don't have to make critical decisions that could cost you a 15 second time-out. They don't have to dodge gunfire, AA's, terrain, all while getting the gunner a good, clear shot.
I'm not trying to say piloting is harder than gunning, nor am I saying that gunning takes no skill and any noob can do it. But rather that piloting takes a lot of concentration, and that dying while in a chopper is the pilot's fault in most circumstances. The only deaths I can think of that would be the gunner's fault is a mobile AA shot, or killing a heli - everything else is the pilot's fault.
You have a very good pilot, and a mediocre gunner. The pilot dodges the incoming TV missles, while still lining up the gunner for shots...even if the gunner can't make them. The pilot slowly gains altitude and closes the gap between the heli's, all the while avoiding missles and gunfire, and trying to give the gunner a good shot.
You see what I'm saying? I didn't say gunning was easy, just that piloting takes more concentration and more multi-tasking. Really, all a gunner has to do is sit back and click the mouse around... that's simplifying gunning a lot, but that's really all they have to do. They don't have to make critical decisions that could cost you a 15 second time-out. They don't have to dodge gunfire, AA's, terrain, all while getting the gunner a good, clear shot.
I'm not trying to say piloting is harder than gunning, nor am I saying that gunning takes no skill and any noob can do it. But rather that piloting takes a lot of concentration, and that dying while in a chopper is the pilot's fault in most circumstances. The only deaths I can think of that would be the gunner's fault is a mobile AA shot, or killing a heli - everything else is the pilot's fault.
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